What makes a good SERE knife?

[coaldigger]

I think the RC5 is about perfect for the SERE ! Anther top knife for this would be the old Camillus/Becker BK10 Crewman :thumbup: I think we need to get a few of these fine Custom knife Makers here to sit down with the original Ontario model & Re-make it in there own way in a FullTang version See what they come up with ...maybe even a competition :thumbup:
Just my .02

 

[sicily02]

dawsonbob, I sent you a message.

just to let you know.

Bryan

 

[dawsonbob]

Hi, Bryan,

Got it. I have to run out for awhile, then I'll shoot you off a response.

 

[sicily02]

Thanks, dawsonbob,

Bryan

 

[harpoon41]

Seems to be more of "what knife to carry while instructing SERE", rather then being in a SERE situation.
The Survival aspect is only a 1/4 of the pie. The other 3/4's like was mentioned, a knife, is lower on the list.
A good comm. unit, on the run, food and water, stuff needed to keep the body moving and comms for a quick rescue.
A sturdy 5 incher is a great choice for field exercises. Got a friend that instructed post-BUD/S SEAL in arctic survival on Kodiak. He ran a Fehrman Last Chance. A super tough blade and one of my favorites.
I just wonder how many have gone through SERE? My response about the demo was based on what I saw and knew when I was in way back in '83. Sure today with so many choices the options are endless.
Where you are E&Eing at is another consideration. In high altitude do you really want a pant puller on your hip?
For instructing you can carry what you want. My Breeden 1-0 would make a great blade for instructing.
Scott O'Grady was a great example of true E&E. All about establishing comms, staying hidden until a window of rescue presents itself and then getting home.
The notion of tying a pig sticker on a pole and jumping down on a boar is fantasy. Pocket full of line and hooks and foraging along the way is what provides the chow.
Not trying to sound arrogant, just saying what I've seen.
I've seen more critters cleaned with small Gerber Bolt Actions then with hackers and on the run a pound of steel does hold you own.
The romance of reality ain't to pretty and function does trump fashion in the end.

 

[koyote]

I'm going to jump in without reading everything in the thread. I rea da few posts and just itchin to get going.

I think that one can and should differentiate between a sere knife and an exit tool. There's a huge amount of focus on aircraft crashing with SERE and I don't, personally, think it's a primary category for a SERE knife itself. The USAF pilot's survival knife I'll buy- the aircraft is a specific environment, hopefully for only a few minutes if you need the knife.

I like to differentiate, then, between and escape tool and a SERE knife. I'd love to see more differentiation as I think you can make a better vehicle escape tool if you discard the survival knife functions, and a better SERE knife if you discard the vehicle escape functions.

I think that combat effectiveness is tertiary.

I've been working on my own idea of a SERE knife for a bit and I think that a secure grip, solid handle, and god cutting ability are primary. There's a lot of room to make secondary choices on profiles and size, though I think even 5 inches is more than you want.

I don't think a hammer pommel is needed. I'd prefer a full tang with as little variation in width as possible. A stick, rock, or other item can be used for hammering.

I like the idea of micarta handle scales, though I see no issue with a durable wood. I'm agnostic on steel choice as long as it's sharpenable with field expedients. I do think that tubing pins in the handle - at least 2, are a good idea.

Survival- you aren't hunting with the knife. you are, at best, processing veggies and making hunting tools with the knife.

Evasion- Feet and camouflage, not knives.

Resistance- Okay, this could, possibly, involve combat. I won't dis having a fighting knife, but the truth is that if you are stuck with JUST a knife and looking at combat, make something. Thing is, for fighting with a knife I'd rather have an axe. Any knife that will handle game well will de-tendon your opponent just fine.

Escape- the odds of you having your knife are slim, but the smaller the knife the better the odds -there's a documented escape by a solider using a P38 taped to his dogtags! I've considered making a chisel-spearpoint kiridashi design that could be carried with dogtags and used as a javelin head, but I haven't gotten to a point where I am happy with the idea.

I'm going to come out again against the prybar idea- just to be clear. a prybar on your person in a vehicle is fine, but I don't think it oughtta be your SERE knife.


edit- wasn't going to add this but I might as well. I would carry a slim, handle-less PSK knife type blade that can be used as a javelin, gig, or dart head. Piggyback with the SERE knife, probably. the extra half ounce wouldn't be wasted. and I'd feel better with even a dinky little 3 inch javelin head on a stick that without it.

 

[dawsonbob]

Bryan,

I just sent you an email.

Bob

 

[absolutindian]

I was with ya til I saw the Bear Gryls knife.

Carl-

I dislike Bear Grylls, his practices, and his image as much as the next guy. "Bear"ing in mind that his flagship knife is crazy overpriced, is there actually something about it that would make it any less of a performer than any other given blade of similar dimensions? I just hate to see good quality products shunned due to preconceived feelings on their creators or endorsers...

On the other hand, if the quality is as terrible as Bear's foolhardiness, dishonesty, etc... well then, Bear haters UNITE!!

 

[Mack]

Although it may be off topic, if so I'm sorry, my question has to do with the design of the typical survival knife. They generally have clip points. Why? My kabar does, my Sog Seal pup does etc.
I just don't get the point. To me a drop or spear point would be better. Am I nuts?

 

[murderedsongbird]

Probably a Bravo-1 and the SAK. But any of these would be a good SERE knife, IMO.

what's the fourth knife down?

 

[Horn Dog]

what's the fourth knife down?

Fosters J Fears survival in 440C.

 

[murderedsongbird]

thanks.

 

[koyote]

Okay, since protourist brought up spearpoints I'll go ahead and ask about that. Here's the LBK (littel big knife) which I think is what I'd use myself for a SERE knife, though I wouldn't be unhappy with a decent leuku

Blade lengths are in the 3.5-4 inch range, overall going about 8 inches. Naturally, thinner steel than anyone is recommending, but the leuku profile blades in this thickness have been used for a lot of drilling and clamming and tuber diggins, so I'm going to be unapologetic as hell and say that half of 3/16 is good to go

So, why not a spearpoint?

 

[Rotte]

I'm going to come out again against the prybar idea- just to be clear. a prybar on your person in a vehicle is fine, but I don't think it oughtta be your SERE knife.

I don't care what these other guys say about you, you're OK by me. knife should be a knife. And a SERE knife is still just a knife.

Spear point wold be ideal to my way of thinking. Short clip wold work well too. I like the idea of being able to use the tip to drill a little.

Length between 3.5" and 5.5" seems about right. 1/8" to 5/32" in blade thickness.

Good grip with some kind of guard.

I'd go with micarta and steel or brass tube pins.

An exposed pommel/tang would be nice. To keep the handle slabs protected if one decides to use the knife as a chisel.

 

[Rotte]

Based upon the historical context of what has been required in battlefield SERE scenarios I don't see a lot of knife usage.

Good point, this may be my ultimate point with this thread. But I still wouldn't go in harm's way without a plan B and a good knife.

 

[stanley_white]

Good point, this may be my ultimate point with this thread. But I still wouldn't go in harm's way without a plan B and a good knife.

Concur.

Here is my "get back to the FOB" blade made by JK Handmade knives.

Specs:

- 5.5" blade or so -- made to fit in a Spec Ops Brand sheath

- 3/16" thick

- 1.75" tall

- O-1 Steel

- "a forged" blade finish

- Tanto blade for straight edge = ease of sharpening in the field as well as ease in batoning and thick enough for light prying

- Large thick handle slabs with integral guard -- protects from cutting yourself in the field -- big handle doesn't get lost while wearing thick gloves -- lots of traction on the handle slabs

- Jimping on the blade works well with ferro rods

This is literally my last knife -- I cannot think of a feature I would possibly add to this.

 

[dawsonbob]

Good point, this may be my ultimate point with this thread. But I still wouldn't go in harm's way without a plan B and a good knife.

On the other hand, Rotte, your original title for the thread was "What makes a good SERE knife?" That's what most people have responded to here. Sure, there's a lot more to SERE than just a knife, and much of it may be even more important in many ways, but I'd hate to see this turn into "what's the best bandage in a SERE situation?" even though that may be important. Escape, Evasion and Survival are different things, true, but I wouldn't want to be in any of those situations without a good knife on me, and that's what your thread was discussing: the knife aspect.

By the way, thanks for starting the thread; it's been really informative.

 

[stanley_white]

On the other hand, Rotte, your original title for the thread was "What makes a good SERE knife?" That's what most people have responded to here. Sure, there's a lot more to SERE than just a knife, and much of it may be even more important in many ways, but I'd hate to see this turn into "what's the best bandage in a SERE situation?" even though that may be important. Escape, Evasion and Survival are different things, true, but I wouldn't want to be in any of those situations without a good knife on me, and that's what your thread was discussing: the knife aspect.

By the way, thanks for starting the thread; it's been really informative.

That is why I used the "get me back to the FOB blade" vice SERE.

My tanto from JK is the knife that once I leave the secure area of the FOB I depend upon it to keep up with whatever task I throw it at and get me back to the FOB in one piece.

 

[koyote]

On the other hand, Rotte, your original title for the thread was "What makes a good SERE knife?" That's what most people have responded to here. Sure, there's a lot more to SERE than just a knife, and much of it may be even more important in many ways, but I'd hate to see this turn into "what's the best bandage in a SERE situation?" even though that may be important. Escape, Evasion and Survival are different things, true, but I wouldn't want to be in any of those situations without a good knife on me, and that's what your thread was discussing: the knife aspect.

By the way, thanks for starting the thread; it's been really informative.

pads. seriously. best bandage.

Now that we have that little grossity out of the way-

I think rotte has some really good food for thought in starting the thread, we have what looks like 4 main components of knife use having been suggested:

hand to hand weapon
hunting weapon
"bushcraft", "woodslore" or "survival" use
vehicle escape tool

now, how we all think about those.... there's the fun.

 

[dawsonbob]

That is why I used the "get me back to the FOB blade" vice SERE.

My tanto from JK is the knife that once I leave the secure area of the FOB I depend upon it to keep up with whatever task I throw it at and get me back to the FOB in one piece.

Your "get me back to the FOB blade" looks like it could do it, too: looks like a brute. While I'm not usually a fan of tanto points, that one actually looks serviceable.

Way back when, we had pretty much the same idea about knives to carry in the bush. Thick, tough, nasty and dependable. The Ka-Bar was the most widely carried (hey, they were free). Fancy was for remf's. Of course, we didn't have all the choices there are now. I'd never heard of custom knives back then, so never even gave it a thought.