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What makes a good SERE knife?
- Thread starter Rotte
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Dawsonbob you wouldnt be talking about this in your earlier post would you
it's a Sheffield MOD knife. To me they look like a really ugly BK2 which would be my idea of a good SERE knife cause they are supposedly bomb proof. Another would be the SOG Revolver cause you would have a knife and a saw and saws can come in handy.
No, that's not it either, Cyblade, but it's much, much closer. The one I'm talking about had just about the same blade shape, but I think the grind was a little higher. The guards look about the same. The handles on mine were some sort of hard rubber/plastic (green, with a texture), and the pins were smaller. Also the sheath seemed rougher. Other than those things, though, the MOD knife you're showing is pretty close, and I like it. It looks like a good, no nonsense, get down-and-dirty knife to ride the river with.
Please remember that I'm recalling that knife from 40 to 45 years ago, so the exact details may be a little fuzzy in my mind. I do remember, though, that it was the best knife I carried: it fit my hand well, it was super strong, and held an edge fairly well. And yes, kinda like a BK-2 in many respects, which happens to be my all around favorite WTSHTF go-to knife. With the BK-2 you get the feeling that, long after everything else on Earth is gone, only cockroaches and the BK-2 will be left.
Thanks for showing that one Cyblade. That's not it, but it's pretty close, and I like it. I may have to track one of those down.
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I understand, and agree with, almost all of your points... from a pilots perspective. On the other hand, it's not just pilots who might find themselves in a SERE situation. There are other aircrew, too, as well as may others. Recon Marines go through SERE school, as do Seals and Special Forces personnel. In fact anyone down behind enemy lines, for any reason, would be in that situation.
Having traveled down some of this road as a military combat pilot (and a SERE graduate); let me get the Pilots Survival Knife thing out of the way as I see it: Things are much different in the cockpit (of any military aircraft) than many people imagine.
* The cockpit of a military aircraft is essentially the pilots office. Lots of business is done in that cockpit other than simply flying the aircraft. Actually, flying the aircraft is basically secondary to your primary assignment and is not at all like the roller coaster ride at the county fair where things are all fun and joy. Complete with pen and paper, my small metal desk was strapped to my right thigh where I kept track of a heap of information that was constantly changing. Add maps and charts, ground and air personnel all talking to you at once on several different radios - you get the picture.
Having seen the cockpits of several fighter planes, and having ridden in one, I understand what you're saying. It is a bit cramped for a work environment.
* I am not sure about you, but I would REALLY dislike having to wear a boat anchor on my chest, at my desk, each and every day of the week. I can only guess that most folks would be looking to unload that weight at the first opportunity so they could get on with their job in some relative comfort. Pilots are no different.
True, true, but along with a number of other things it really is necessary to have along for the ride. A knife may be a pain to carry day to day, but it's kind of like a handgun: you hope you never need it, but when you do, you need it real fast, real bad.
* My Pilots Survival Knife (a Camillus) was located in a sheath in my Pilots Survival Vest right under my arm where I could reach it. Under the other arm, was a handgun. Now, if that knife would have been any larger than the issued Camillus, the knife would have ended where I could not access it if I had lived to need it (in the flight bag most likely). It just would not be possible to carry on with your cockpit duties, hour after hour, wearing a big pry bar on your chest.
Perhaps there is a need for two different types of SERE knives: one for fighter pilots, and one for the rest of us?
*Most military pilots (not all) know almost nothing about knives in general. Most of us were (are) in our early/mid 20's and most had very little outdoors experience that would have given them a hint of what a good 'survival knife' was. For the most part, we used what we were issued and had very little knowledge, or interest, in what other options might be available (I carried a Gerber MK II in my flight bag, Buck 110 on the belt, and the issued Camillus on the survival vest). I could have lined up most of my pilots, quizzed them on knife steels, most would not know 1095 from D2. Survival schools showed us how to use our knives but little commentary addressed the construction and design of the issued knife .
I know exactly what you're saying. Most pilots probably don't know, or care, about knives. It's just something they have to drag along, and it's a PITA... till they need it. It might surprise you to know that at least in my day most recon Marines didn't know diddly about knives, either. Knives were just something that, while we used them all the time, were just steel objects that we carried. Most of us carried US issue knives, or whatever we could lay our hands on. Steel? Why, that was what the blade was made from, and it was either strong enough, or it wasn't. If it wasn't, you tossed that knife and got another one. We used, and liked, knives... but didn't really know anything about them. Note that this was forty years ago, and we didn't have the choices that there are today.
* What would be a first-rate Pilots Survival Knife in my opinion? After logging several thousands of hours in a cockpit (fixed and rotor wing), I think something like the Fallkniven F1 is about ideal with regards to size and materials. When I look at the F1, I see something designed for the pilot and the enviroment in which he works. What many pass off as potential 'Pilots Survival Knives' today (usually big and unwieldy) just wouldn't cut it (pun intended) in the cockpit. Most often those who would like to see the knife in a pilots inventory have never been pilots themselves!
Although I don't own one, I agree on the F1 being a good knife for that usage. I also think that all those big, honking knives that some advocate are way too much. I just think that the best SERE knife hasn't been invented yet. What would it be like? Beats me; I'm giving it some thought, though.
Escape & Evasion: I know firsthand what this panic situation is about. My aircraft in pieces on the ground. They, wanting to add more tenants to the Hanoi Hilton. Getting as far from the aircraft (preferably in a friendly direction) was the first priority to focus on. You travel fast and furious, give no thought whatsoever to your equipment, and only hope your legs and feet don't let you down. 'Stopping to rest', 'find shelter', 'take inventory' 'resume communications', etc., just doesn't enter the mind until you are too exhausted to go on. A total alien (beyond words) experience when compared with wilderness survival in a peaceful environment.
I can just imagine what that's like. It must have been terrifying. Glad you made it through.
SERE School: All great training for life in general. However, in Vietnam, much of it lost context and application in the long run. SERE is about **moving** from where you are to where you need to be. Basic survival skills can help you get there. The knife itself is way, way down on the priority list. Truly, Chuck Norris and Rambo aside, there is little time to use the knife in your flight from the bad guys. I would have gladly exchanged my knife for a cell phone and a friendly voice on the other end.
Going down in combat is one thing, but planes go down in other locations, too. The pilots and crew of those planes could well find themselves in need of a good knife, too. No, there wouldn't be any escape or evasion under those circumstances, but the need for a good SERE type knife for survival could be very real.
You bring up some interesting things, but only from the pilot's perspective.
Gaurdian_A1
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I think a great SERE fixed blade would be a SOG seal pup elite or seal team elite with the nylon sheath acompanied by a black oxide leatherman wave in the outer pocket on the sheath.
Both are strong reliable knives with good reputations. Critique these knives all you want IMO they are capable of doing the job(s).
If it were me i would personally take a fallkniven S1..good strong basic no BS knife. I would buy a sog seal pup elite sheath for it.
Either of those 3 knives mentioned would be great SERE knives, but then again wouldnt any knife be better than no knife in that scenario?
Although not my fav choice, the Gerber LMF 2 ASEK would be a good choice as well, you get many functions out of that knife as it is, it has a great sheath system, both usable and fire retardent ( so is the knife i believe?) (nylon-glass filled TPV over mold handle)..it comes with a seat belt cutter, leg straps , 12c27 stainless blade, you can lash it to a pole to make a weapon for hunting or combat..whatever you want, the handle resists elictrical shock it has a combo glass break /hammer pommel..Combo blade, built in sharpener in the sheath...what more could you want as far as uses in a knife+sheath combo?..sure we all have wants,,sure there are better steels for blades, better handle materials ( micarta or G10 )..but IMO the LMF 2 would work well as a SERE knife.
I own both the LMF 2 and the seal pup elite, both are excellent knives...and although I would not EDC the LMF2 in the bush because i have other knives i prefer, like my A1, i would defiently consider the LMF2 for a SERE scenario due to its pure versatility.
Go to knifetests.com and watch the destruction videos on the LMF 2 and seal team elite..they wont dissapoint.
-Gaurdian
Both are strong reliable knives with good reputations. Critique these knives all you want IMO they are capable of doing the job(s).
If it were me i would personally take a fallkniven S1..good strong basic no BS knife. I would buy a sog seal pup elite sheath for it.
Either of those 3 knives mentioned would be great SERE knives, but then again wouldnt any knife be better than no knife in that scenario?
Although not my fav choice, the Gerber LMF 2 ASEK would be a good choice as well, you get many functions out of that knife as it is, it has a great sheath system, both usable and fire retardent ( so is the knife i believe?) (nylon-glass filled TPV over mold handle)..it comes with a seat belt cutter, leg straps , 12c27 stainless blade, you can lash it to a pole to make a weapon for hunting or combat..whatever you want, the handle resists elictrical shock it has a combo glass break /hammer pommel..Combo blade, built in sharpener in the sheath...what more could you want as far as uses in a knife+sheath combo?..sure we all have wants,,sure there are better steels for blades, better handle materials ( micarta or G10 )..but IMO the LMF 2 would work well as a SERE knife.
I own both the LMF 2 and the seal pup elite, both are excellent knives...and although I would not EDC the LMF2 in the bush because i have other knives i prefer, like my A1, i would defiently consider the LMF2 for a SERE scenario due to its pure versatility.
Go to knifetests.com and watch the destruction videos on the LMF 2 and seal team elite..they wont dissapoint.
-Gaurdian
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I did SERE lvl C at Ft Bragg in 93 and one thing that has not come up is that your gear is usually in layers. I dont remember if I picked that up there or somewhere else, but my LBV had, for the time, a decent fixed blade. On the off chance I had to ditch that I had a small Buck folder with a few other items that stayed in my BDU pocket. I think it was a signal mirror, some 550 cords, and a lighter. I was also able to carry a pistol when I was in. I didnt have room for it on my LBV so I had a drop holster attached to my BDU belt. As much as I like my knives, the pistol was straying with me longer than my fixed blade was.
I think any knife that will work for a survival knife will work for SERE. Bottom line is very few folks will be in a SERE situation and those that are in those positions should have some training and be able to pick what they think would work for them. The folks that might be in a SERE situation and dont put thought into their equipment, well, it wont matter what knife they have because they wont have any skills to go with it.
I think any knife that will work for a survival knife will work for SERE. Bottom line is very few folks will be in a SERE situation and those that are in those positions should have some training and be able to pick what they think would work for them. The folks that might be in a SERE situation and dont put thought into their equipment, well, it wont matter what knife they have because they wont have any skills to go with it.
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:thumbup::thumbup:
I really like the blade in the pics...It seems to have a nice ergo handle like a birds beak military type and thong. The handle has a built in guard, which makes sense....The blade seems to be shaped good...What type of steel and heat treat may I ask? The only thing I do not like is the small notch on the blade by the what is called the no mans land...I use this area about the length of 1/4 inch unsharpened to pry nails out of stuff on my blades...It seems that that would be a stess riser for the heat treat...Other than that, I would grab this one before the others I have seen on this thread...Also the Glock knife is good as well being ugly as it is...Looks dont matter really...Glock shovels are great as well...I cannot really tell if the stitching has been laid into a grooved channel from the pics but appears so...If that is the case, good sheath as well....I really like this blade...The grind looks good appearing to have good blade geometry...I could be wrong...It looks like a keeper....Just my opinion...
I had alot of thoughts about SERE when I designed this one... Ray brought it to life wonderfully.
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Thanks, Jim. They've been getting the job done for over seventy years now, and they're still going strong. We could probably come up with a better SERE knife nowadays, but it would have to go some to beat that old Ka-Bar.
Gossman Knives
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I make alot of knives for military personel. The PSK knife is the most requested for smaller knives. Full size, blades in the 5 to 7 inch catagory are the most popular. There are regular military and Special Operations groups I make for. One of my 5" Tuskers is in the hands of a Seal Team member in Afghanistan.
I think what knife an individual will carry always comes down to personal preference.
Scott
I think what knife an individual will carry always comes down to personal preference.
Scott
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Considering how the Airman knife feels to me, I would go with the heftier RAT. I carry my RC-4 everywhere and find the added weight negligible for packing, but comforting when it comes to something I want to beat the hell out of...
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i have no sere experience but i always have thought that a 5" chris reeve green beret would be a pretty decent sere knife or while it might be a bit too long the pacific might be nice as well
Not being a SERE type, I can only speak from second hand experience with them.
At a recent SAR training, we were fortunate to have a SERE guy (right) join us.
He really liked the Siegle SAR-4, and our team is planning to buy him one before he deploys
with his Combat Rescue Squadron.
Mind you; I am VERY biased!!
Just my $.02...
that's such a great looking blade...:thumbup:
Can any SERE instructoros give some thought?...Why dont we ask them?...Please come forth if you are out there...It would make sense to ask a SERE instructor on what kind of knife they would prefer to use for SERE purposes...Just my opinion..........Over and out!
myright
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They already have been asked and came up with an answer. They answered RAT RC5 SERE. Check it out.
j williams
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The blade is O1. Laconico does a helluva job on HT. Its a great blade.
As far as the stress riser, I think you may be right, however it would be an easy fix. Small change in the design would fix that problem.
Thanks for the compliments. I put alot of thought into the design, thinking of my time as a scout in the Army, and trying to create my ideal fixed blade for an E&E situation, as well as urban/wilderness survival. Just a GOTO kinda blade. Ray did it wonderfully, in his own style.
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