What makes a good SERE knife?

[harpoon41]

Bryan's sheaths hold the blade in fine. I really like the forward retention strap, pop it open hold back with your thumb and extract the blade.
This topic is of great interest to me and the conversation has been great.
I thought I'd quickly mention some of the blades I've seen used by guys that run AFSC SERE. AF's MOS.
Moras, SRK's, Ka-Bars, TOPS, Fehrman's, again basic stuff. As was mentioned most don't have the coin to drop on high dollar blades. I recently saw a guy fleshing a rabbit with a British SF machete. The 12in. Ontario is a great survival tool.
Woodsmoke got 2 letters from SERE types that each carried Mike Mann's, Idaho Knife Works, Cumberland knives.
But again this is for instructing. I knew one guy that used a Western Bowie. Axes are used, saws. This is what instructors carried. I can name a lot of fellows that relied on folders as a "final option" knife. A Puma Game Warden dummy corded down your thigh offers more comfort and piece of mind then a Busse on the hip.
I think most blades shown make great SAR knives. That MUK is a real eye catcher and my type of knife. Solid knives that are needed when litters need to be fashioned or spruce for smoke generators need to be cut in abundance.
As far as leather sheaths for jumping, how many rode the silk elevator down with their blades incased in leather? I know now it's all about being as safe as possible.
My pick for a last ditch knife is my Ritter folder, always on me. Every guy on the field is in E&E mode from the enemy.
How you handle yourself in a bad situation depends on your PMA, not the blade. Heck Tommy Hamill waited for the right time and made it out alive with a broken arm and no knife.

 

[XMP]

Clearly what we'd pick for ourselves and what ought to be issued are not necessarily the same thing. As far as an issue knife, I've long wondered why some manufacturer doesn't literally duplicate the Kabar and the Pilot's survival knife blade with a full tang and plain canvas micarta handle in 1095. That would still be reasonable in cost but a significant step up in quality.

 

[dawsonbob]

Clearly what we'd pick for ourselves and what ought to be issued are not necessarily the same thing. As far as an issue knife, I've long wondered why some manufacturer doesn't literally duplicate the Kabar and the Pilot's survival knife blade with a full tang and plain canvas micarta handle in 1095. That would still be reasonable in cost but a significant step up in quality.

I've long wondered the same thing myself. Eliminate the fuller, make the clip point less severe, extend the tang to full length with micarta slabs for handles, and they'd have something.

 

[PayetteRucker]

The Becker series runs for the same price, yet is clearly more beefy and specifically designed for bushcraft and survival, versus a fighting/combat utility knife.

 

[Dannyboy Leather]

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[caine]

I like my Cumberland knife alot. Had this made with green canvas micarta. Never used it though. One of many I have waiting to use

 

[caine]

What features in your opinion should a SERE knife have?

5-7 inch blade depending on the shape, thickness.
RC 54-58
Heated correctly
stainless or carbon
Flat ground
Reg edge, or convex no scandi.
Some sorta guard
At least one lanyard hole
Good sturdy sheath multi use
G10, Canvas or Linen micarta handle.
Some sort extended butt
Small area of serrations on the top of the spine. No more than 2 inchs worth. Really depends on the blade length. I would go with 3-4 scallop type serrations. IE the large ones on the Brend knives

 

[Dannyboy Leather]

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[caine]

7in I think

 

[caine]

BTW after the Survival-Evasion part you probaly wont have your knife.

 

[matthewdanger]

There are thousands of designs that would make a good SERE knife. There are some common traits that all good SERE knives should have.

The ideal SERE knife...
- should have a cutting edge and be capable of cutting stuff.
- should be made from metal, preferably steel.
- should have a comfortable handle.
- should not be too small.
- should not be too big.
- should have a versatile blade shape.
- should, most importantly, be held by someone who has at least an idea of how to use it.

Basically, there are a world of choices and many of them are good. Know how and determination of the user will dictate whether the design is a success.

 

[caine]

i think we need to get a few of these fine custom knife makers here to sit down with the original ontario model & re-make it in there own way in a fulltang version :d see what they come up with ...maybe even a competition :thumbup:
Just my .02

i agree

 

[woodsmoke]

It's interesting to look at the knives used by some of the great SERE (sorta SERE) types of history in their experiences. Mad Trapper of Rat River used a knife made from a trap spring. Slav Rawicz in the book "The Long Walk" used a knife ground from a saw blade in his flight from Siberia to India. Rod Ansel, the model for Croc Dundee, lost for months in the remote Aussie Outback used a Russell butcher and a Russell skinner. Mountain man Hugh Glass mauled by a bear and crawling, hobbling through hostile Indian country for months used a stone spear point and a straight razor he found. Super woodsmen all.

 

[PayetteRucker]

i agree

Someone has, I think it may have been Martin.

 

[warrigal]

Sicily, My memory was prompted when I saw that small blade of yours.
Have any of you blokes seen the Leilira and minitan?
The Leilira is based on the traditional stone knife of the Indigenous Australians A spear shaped blade of stone gummed onto a short handle.
This version was made at the request of Bob Cooper a West Australian survival instructor ( I think he did do some guest work with David Alloway.) Bob wanted a small fixed blade double edged knife to fit in his MkIII survival kit. He wanted two edges one ground steep for heavy work and the other thin for skinning and fine work. a curved pommel for crushing fibers or seeds, softer steel chisel ground to make it a bit easier for the inexperienced to sharpen, plenty of lashing holes to extend the reach of the knife for cutting fruit, vines or leaves ( palm fronds?). The large hole make it surprisingly solid grip considering. The sheath is designed to hand around your neck but you have to take it off from around your neck cumbersome, but very secure.
http://www.equipped.org/cooperkit.htm
But an over enthusiastic customs agent seized a consignment of these knives ( they were being manufactured off shore to keep the cost down) even though they were being sent immediately to troops serving in East Timor at the time.
So Keith Spencer ( long time knife Advocate here in OZ) who designed the original redesigned the leilira to keep the original requirements and still pass customs. Ta-daaaaa the minitan ( mini tanto).
I just searched Keiths site
http://www.knivesaustralia.com.au/akc-homepage.html But there is no listing for either the Leilira or minitan on his site he is a couple hours behind me I'll ring later and post here as to whether they are still available.
A pic with a Benchmade rescue hook for size the back ground is a 10mm grid ( around 3/8ths of an inch)

Carl
P.S. Kudos to whomever it was that started the conversation about layered equipment quiet right.

 

[sicily02]

Hi all,

Rotte, Great, I thought you might like that idea of testing it out lol. As to your ?s about the bungee jumping Yea I would not have a problem with this retention set up. BUT now if things went wrong with the bungee deal and I got slammed around some how. don't ask me how but maybe the line breaks or something. that might be a different deal.
I do really like your thought on the punch a couple of holes in the belt loop and then tie off the handle with some cord. I could also put another button stud for a second retention type clasp. Anyways.


I know Caine and coaldigger said why are the makers not putting there designs into production. I think it has been started already, That is why there is even a 1-0 knife. Mistwalker wanted a updated custom version of the pilots survival knife.

Well I think you are right about mistwalker he has is act together on the survival part too. This is where and why the 1-0 knife came to be and with the sheath design with the retention strap one the side of the spine so when he pulled his knife out it would not possible cut the strap and he wanted a retention clasp for steath not a snap or velcro .

This One Zero REPLACED the pilots survival knife that mistwalker used when he was homless. mistwalker wanted a 5.5" blade and a full tang handle, Micarta scales for the handle and INSTEAD of the straight up and down guard He wanted the slanted guard ( by the way the guard on the pilots survival knife is a add on, a seperate part not part of the knife blade and handle itself more working parts more possible ways for it to work loose ) and then a extended tang, He also wanted the landyard hole near the top of the handle and not in the middle like alot of knives have.

Also mistwalker wanted his knife to be of thicker3/16" instead of the 5/32" thickness of the pilots survival knife and a tougher steel like 0-1 steel.
Caine and coaldigger must have missed that thread about the 1-0 knife that mistwalker did a couple of months back.

I might be biased on this, but I think mistwalkers idea for his custom upgrade for his old pilots survival knife turned out pretty good.

harpoon41 thanks I try to get the fit just right for the knives and the sheaths that I make.

Well now pics of my test with seeing how the retention set up worked when I threw my knife down into the caynon to see if the knife would stay in the sheath or not.

Well in this pic. This is the start of the desent into the canyon.

Once you have traved about 60 feet you will come to the rim of this. in this pic I went on down further and took this pic looking back up at the rim you can see kathy standing by it.

Ok now at this point I want to say that when Kathy and I got to where we were going to cut trees I took my knife and sheath off and with out telling kathy I just threw it out like I was throwing a base ball ( Kathy looked at me like I had just lost my mind lol. ) I just told her i was throwing my knife and sheath. she said i can see that WHY? lol then I told her. Ok I walked over to where the knife and sheath landed. My knife was still locked into the sheath.
Then I told kathy what I was going to do next and then we went down into the canyon.
I told kathy to throw the knife down towards where I was standing at the bottom of the 30 foot drop or so.
Well the knife and sheath landed about and the knife was still in the sheath.
Here is the pic of it and my holding it.

Then it came time for my throw. Here I am holding my knife and sheath and getting ready throw it. the pic is a little blurry.

I threw my knife and sheath and unlike kathys throw which was a girly throw
lol mine bounced off the cliff wall and then struck another part of the wall on the way down in total I counted 4 hits of the cliff and ground before it came to a rest. on the 4 hit I saw the knife come out of the sheath. I then went back down to the bottom and and in the next pic you can see I am pointing to the knife with my left hand and the sheath with my right hand. they landed about 5' apart. In this pic you can not see really what I am pointing at but they are there then in the pic after that I moved the knife and sheath and you can see them some what. Take a look.

now in this pic you can just sort of see the orange handle of the knife.

so anyways Rotte Good ? on asking about how well the knife would stay in the sheath 2 out of 3 times it stayed buckled in. so to answer your ? about the bungee jump yea I would feel ok about doing that as long as the bungee did not break and send me crashing down into the sides of some canyon.

Again I like the idea of having a couple of holes punched in to the belt loop and then put some cord through the holes and then tie off the knife handle. I still like the thought of having 2 button studs also and along with the couple of holes in the belt loop for the cord.

since harpoon41 has commented on the fit of his 1-0 knife maybe in his sheath maybe he will chime back in and tell if he would do a parachute jump with his knife and sheath as is or would he want more security for it.

I am not sure if Dannyboy leather would or not lol. Danny did you eject from your plane or did you have to do a crash landing?

anyways I am glad you brought that up Rotte I now will fix my knife and sheath so I can have a even more secure retention for kepping my knife in its sheath for when i go to a party lol like you said.

I know most of you are going to take your $200 plus knife and throw it down into a canyon but if you do kudos to to for seeing what happens lol
I did notice a scratch in the G-10 of my handle and the sheath was scuffed some to but other than that it really did ok. also the firesteel did come out of the pouch also but I did not have it tied to the sheath like I normally do.
I also will mention that this knife and sheath has apouch on the back side of it and I keep a small thin 1/16" Final option knife in there and it did not come out at all.

Again Rotte great thread. Say did you think it would get this many pages lol

Take care

Bryan

 

[sicily02]

Warrigal, yea I have seen them knives like Cooper had. I think they are a great back up and they really do work as seen in this pic I processed a turkey with my Final Option Knife last spring just to see how well it would work. Is it the best for the job NO lol but it did work and it is way better than a razor blade. Well lol I think so.

Those smaller knives really have there place in the survivors pack. again it is advantage. One knife it great but having several of them and in the layer of your survival kit will great inhance the over all survival situation.

I like the pic of the left one over the double blade one in the middle. I am going to make one of them up like that but with out the tanto point. I am not a big tanto point lover lol

payett you right martin has done a upgrade to. was his for the kabar or the pilots knife? any one know?

Bryan

 

[Dannyboy Leather]

Post expired.

 

[sicily02]

Danny, thanks for the kind words. That is awesome to hear.

WOW about the story on your landing and I bet you were happy when you relized what had happened after the crash.

Yep I am happy you made it too.
My dad was a Marine. He did that tunnel rat stuff. YUCK and YIKES lol. He lived for a few years after his tour of duty but passed away in 1976 I was to young to really remember him.

I wish he had not died when I was so young I would sure would have liked to ask him ?s about that type of work. Well that is life.

Take care Danny,

Bryan

 

[warrigal]

I just spoke with keith. The Leilra is discontinued It has been around since 1993 and with the current climate and the G'ment talking big on banning double edges knives nationaly Keith wasn't willing to commission more and get stuck with them.
The Minitan however should be back in stock Come Feb 2010.
Carl