What makes a good SERE knife?

[GRIM 62]

I would probably pick my RC6.It's plenty strong enough and one heck of a slicer to boot.I just reprofiled the edge(thinned)on mine and it is singing sharp.

 

[Gaurdian_A1]

none of us are going to agree on what the best SERE knife is...we wont agree on brand or style, blade steel or handle material..nothing.

But i am sure we can all meet in the middle and agree that a certain knife would be a good all around choice..I think the good ole USMC KABAR would be hard to beat all around...its not the best at everything, but it does EVERYTHING well.

If any of us want to carry somthing more exotic, like fallknivens, busse etc..thats up to the pilot/operator/soldier themselves( ourselves ).

As a standard issue knife..the KABAR wins.

 

[udtjim]

Well said, and to top it off, Almost everyone can afford one.:thumbup: That moves it up the ladder quite a ways IMO.

 

[dawsonbob]

When the OP said into harms way, this brought Bug Out Knife to my mind. My idea of that means a breakdown of all financial and law and order. This is what brought me to combat ready knives. Maybe that was not his intention but this to me ruled out the most accepted survival knives as ideal.

Y' know, Jim, it could easily mean that, too.

 

[dawsonbob]

none of us are going to agree on what the best SERE knife is...we wont agree on brand or style, blade steel or handle material..nothing.

But i am sure we can all meet in the middle and agree that a certain knife would be a good all around choice..I think the good ole USMC KABAR would be hard to beat all around...its not the best at everything, but it does EVERYTHING well.

If any of us want to carry somthing more exotic, like fallknivens, busse etc..thats up to the pilot/operator/soldier themselves( ourselves ).

As a standard issue knife..the KABAR wins.

As a current issue knife, I think the Ka-Bar does win hands down in a lot of ways. The problem is that the venerable Ka-Bar is getting a little long in the tooth, and certainly isn't ideal for many people (such as pilots). Don't get me wrong: the Ka-Bar is one of my favorite knives of all time (I carried one for years). The problem is that it's a little too big, and weaker than it should be due to the stick tang and clip point. Something newer needs to be developed: the question is what?

I find this thread intriguing because of all the different viewpoints and ideas of what might constitute a good issue type replacement for the ol' Ka-Bar.

 

[D R E]

My vote goes for a better kabar type knife that is designed and built for ruggedness, not just lowest bidder, wartime needs. The Ontario Marine bayonet seems to be working quite well for the MARINES. Fabricate the standard issue kabar more like the bayonet. Thicker tang and slightly thicker blade stock.

Better yet, a true 5.5" inch kabar. Not a full-sized reduced down to a 3/4 size like the current model.

Much could be done but probably won't. For instance, why can't Gerber make an LMF II or Prodigy WITHOUT serrations? The Big Rock comes that way but nothing else can? :grumpy:

 

[Horn Dog]

The Bark River Bravo-2 is about the size of the Ka-Bar, and has a full tang. It's a tough knife for sure.

But I think I prefer the lighter Smoke Jumper. It isn't a full tang, but seems to be quite rugged.

 

[Hammer27]

In my experience and opinion you should have two knives that you could use for SERE -the folder and the fixed blade. The fixed blade can be on your vest, LBE, whatever while the folder should always be in your first line gear-on your person. You'll never ditch the folder and it can do most of the tasks you'll have to do. Something like an Emerson CQC-12 or ZT should fit the bill for the folder. Fixed blades have to meet more requirements: is it just for SERE or is it a "combat" knife too? How big? etc.

 

[sicily02]

Hi all, just for fun I drew up a design and mixed a couple of other knives that I have made into one.

the sheath will be something like this with a pouch for a sharpener and then a either a firesteel or a spyacapsule with a firesteel rod and tinder all in one package and I am thinking with a pouch for a smaller fixed blade with either tin scales or even no handles on it like this pic. all shiny steel and chicago srews can be darkened.

Mistwalker and I have been talking about a Sojourner blade shape with a One Zero handle. The spine on this one has the bevel like the Sojourner knife.
It really has a sharp point when you grind the spine like that.

I also did not draw out the slanted guard with as long of tines like the Warthorns or the One Zero knives.

I made a pattern already and the more I hold that pattern I am like yep this would work. I love the slanted guard it really makes holding and doing the 5 Grips that Ray Mears talks about in his book when doing woodcraft projects. I have never used a design yet that made them 5 grips to comfy as the slanted guard design does.
I know some have said that they would only need a SAK or a Multi tool and that is ok but I tell you this. If you ever were to fall through some ice, reaching into your pocket and then tring to open that SAK or Multi tool up and then jabbing that thin stock SAK knife into the ice to you can hopefully pull / crawl your now very heavy WET weight out of that situation I would like to see that done. Oh and since it is a folder it is possible that it will fold on your fingers YIKES. One other thing if you really had to defend or even attack a 2 or 4 footed creature do you really want a SAK or a Multi tool for that type of situation? Now I sopose you could have sharped up a stick with a nice point on it for that type of situation with your SAK or Multi. That is a thought.

I know for myself I want to have as many ADVANTAGES as I can get. I think most of us even the pilots could carry a 4" to 6" fixed blade day in, day out, everyday and then a SAK or multi tool, plus a couple of What the United States Rescue and Special Operations Group says to carry as a final back up peace of sharpened steel.
When all else has been lost. Like Final Option knives.

with your First line / Final Option kit.

The more advantages that you can give yourself the better.

If we get rain on Wednesday of this week like the weather man says I will be in the shop all day and this knife in the drawing will get started on.

Well what do you think?

Bryan

 

[BWSkipper]

Very interesting thread here.

I don't think there is any one knife that is the best SERE knife. As we can see here there are just to many different views on it. Even the folks what do SERE for a living don't have just one blade everyone uses, the instructors in one school will even use different knives. It seems to me it just boils down to personal preference.

From my armchair quarterback view skill, and the will to Survive, Evade, Resist, and Escape makes the difference not the knife. I'd think any well made fixed blade knife would do. I do know for sure I'd want to test my knife before I hit the field with it to be sure it'd stand up to hard use.

Thanks for the good read here guys.

 

[tltt]

.

Cattaraugas 225Q gets my vote for best budget SERE knife. Wide useful blade shape. The hammer butt is useful for any goofy things you might run into, and the handle is decent.

I've never seen one broken either.

 

[PrimitiveMan]

I am stickin with my Ontario Pilots Survival knife.

And I am buying a spare for my other pack.

Keep it simple.

But you guys have brought up some great blades. Go for it!

Carl-

 

[dawsonbob]

Very interesting thread here.

I don't think there is any one knife that is the best SERE knife. As we can see here there are just to many different views on it. Even the folks what do SERE for a living don't have just one blade everyone uses, the instructors in one school will even use different knives. It seems to me it just boils down to personal preference.

From my armchair quarterback view skill, and the will to Survive, Evade, Resist, and Escape makes the difference not the knife. I'd think any well made fixed blade knife would do. I do know for sure I'd want to test my knife before I hit the field with it to be sure it'd stand up to hard use.

Thanks for the good read here guys.

Let's assume that the requisite training, skill, and will to live are givens: the person in the SERE situation has all those things. We're talking about a tool to help that person get out of that situation.

Yes, most decent fixed blade knives will work, but most people in that situation are going to have to rely on whatever knife they were issued. While most of us as knife aficionados have definite preferences in brand or type of knife we'd choose, the average Marine, soldier, sailor, airman or pilot doesn't know a darn thing about knives. They've probably never even heard of a Becker or a RAT or a Busse, and could really care less: they just want a hunk of steel that does what it's supposed to do, when they need it to do it. My interest in this thread is what would make for the most effective knife for all of these people. Forget about learning about knives and getting a really good custom: they're not going to do it. They're either going to get something from the PX, or go with whatever they're issued. My contention is that what is currently being issued could be vastly improved upon: I'm just trying to find out how.

 

[Rotte]

Let's assume that the requisite training, skill, and will to live are givens: the person in the SERE situation has all those things. We're talking about a tool to help that person get out of that situation.

Agreed. I don't think anyone is questioning that other factors, e.g. sounds skills or a good compass, may be more important, but here we are looking specifically at the idea of a SERE knife. I'm going to assume that if you've been to SERE school (AF's is the best by the way ) you will think to bring a knife with you when you go into harm's way. Or take a trip to the mall for that matter.

 

[Rotte]

The more advantages that you can give yourself the better.

....

Well what do you think?

Agreed. And I think you'd better get grinding! That's a good looking design Bryan. A 5.5" blade seems excellent and there are some standard jump sheaths that will accept that blade length. I like the blade shape and versatility. I might make the tines of the guard a little shorter even, but I really like the fact that you have an integral guard. I like the exposed pommel too. It could be used as a scraper or struck when using the knife as a chisel.

Your sheath could probably work if a retention thong were added. Remember, in this situation the knife has to stay with you! Being throw from a rotary wing or ejected from a fixed wing will impart big G-forces. That knife has to be there when you regain consciousness. Security will be paramount.

 

[dawsonbob]

Agreed. I don't think anyone is questioning that other factors, e.g. sounds skills or a good compass, may be more important, but here we are looking specifically at the idea of a SERE knife. I'm going to assume that if you've been to SERE school (AF's is the best by the way ) you will think to bring a knife with you when you go into harm's way. Or take a trip to the mall for that matter.

I've been to several EE&S (SERE) schools. Marine Corps, Navy and, I believe AF. All of them presented different things, with different viewpoints, for different terrain and different weather. The biggest difference that I saw was in the instructors. Some really, really knew their stuff, and made it interesting. Others sounded like they were just reciting the manual. Both kinds were informative, but the good ones cared, and made sure the information stuck with you.

 

[Snake Dr.]

Here's a couple of Knive's that I have that I think I could count on, And I agree with the Pilot's Survival Knife, And below that Is a SDS Custom MUK Military Utility Knife "Built Like A Tank "That Shawn from Oklahoma Knife Work's make's I Feel these Knive's are Indestuctible,

Here's the Spec.'s on the MUK Millitary Utility Knife, With a SPEC. OPS. Sheath , 10 3/8" Total, Blade Cutting Edge Is 5 1/16 5 3/8" to the Hand Guard, 1 3/16" Broad, 3/16" Thick 154CM Steel, Here's some more Info. from Shawn's Web-Site on his MUK http://sdsknifeworks.com/knives/muk.asp

 

[A.L.]

Something like an Emerson CQC-12 or ZT should fit the bill for the folder.

I don't want to trail off, but I whittled with my ZT 350 yesterday. Dulled the blade significantly and the blade started to scratch the frame when closing. I would never take a folder outdoors, unless really had to.

 

[sicily02]

Hi all,

Rotte, Yep I think the more advantages you can have on your side the better. And it does not have to be with just knives, It is ALL of it, like
harpoon41 said on page 3 of the thread. Comm., Food and water( speaking of food if you really want to put some great food bars in your kit get some of the Met RX bars, I learned about them from the US RSOG forum they will beat out a Nature valley granola bar any day of the week), Heck having a great pair of boots for the enviorment you are going to be in can sure make life alot easyer.

ADVANTAGES the more the better right? I love multi tools and paired with a fixed blade and there really is not alot that combination could not do in helping you get out of a possible SERE situation.


Speaking of harpoon41, Rotte you mentioned the retention of the knife in the pic I posted.
1. If you noticed the retention strap is on the SIDE of the sheath where the spine will slide out, NOT on the Cutting edge of the sheath ( that was a request by mistwalker when I made the sheath up for his Warthorn and One Zero knife. I liked that idea so much that I now do that for all the Warthorns and One zero knives and soon to be the SERE 5.5 LIKE MOST knives sheaths seem to have. The retention strap is on the cutting edge side or even wrapped around the knife handle.

Being able to keep from cutting the Retention strap seems like a good idea to me. Again any advantage is better.

2. the actual retention peice in not a snap for Steath resons ( remember steath can mean the difference between life and death how many tactical knife sheaths have you seen with Velcro I have seen a few, that does not sound to stealthy to me).

Since Harpoorn41 mention that he was in the Airforce and either attended a survival corse or went through the SERE school, maybe harpoon41 will get back in here and comment on that too. and what he thinks about it as for holding the knife in there incase there was a impact or something.
Also mistwalker has had his Warthorn and One Zero knives with these sheath with this type of restention strap and locking peace. and has had them for several months i do not think he has lost his yet. And by his reveiws I get the feeling that he spends time out in the woods. Maybe he will chime in on that also.
Caine from here on the forums has his Warthorn but I know he is having some family problems, but just maybe he will chime in to and say what he thinks of the retention for his sheath.


I to have been using this type of sheath carry for my Warthorn knife and so far have not lost mine yet. I my be a little bieased to lol. I also spend a fair amout of time in the woods as I have a tree cutting service. here is a pic of the place kathy and I are cutting in and at. This pic was taken a couple of days back.

Let me say that kathy and I use chainsaws. We do the jobs that the tree shears do not or can not do. Very rough terrain. We trip, stumble , fall, slide, down ravines over trees crap lilke that. After a few hours of doing that type of work you are pretty tired and that chain saw feels like it 50 pounds and then trying to get back out of where you are cutting is a challenge. It can be a real mess with wall the branchs that you are cutting an fight to get to so you can cut down the tree and then move on to the next one so on.
I tell ya also that I have had more tree branchs pull at my knife and sheath becasue I can feel it when it happens as I am pushing and at times crawling on my hands and knees to get to the base of the bigger trees to cut them.
Take look at the back ground DROP or SET your knife down in there and see how easy it is fing that knife with out a brightly colored handle. Something to think about when doing this type of work.
That is why I really like orange for my work knives.

In this pic

it kind of shows the canyon complex that we are going to be working in.
Just a few days back we walked, and at time crawled and did our share of sliding down into it the bottom of it. At one point I was pushing my way through some thick ceder branches and then a thought came to me to stop ( whether you belive in the 6th sense or the Good LORD telling me that is not such a goo idea. I stoped and started to crawl through and Thankfully I listened to that small voice) Well I crawled right to the edge of a 30 foot drop off. The trees had groen right up to the very stinken edge. WHEW LOL I tell I do not know if I had fallen down that 30 foot drop IF my knife might have come loose but since you mentioned that your knife needs to say in its SHEATH I am getting ready to go back there today and I will TAKE my personal knife and sheath off and throw it down and into that ravine. and see if my retention set up works. I will take some pics to and post them after we get back today.

3. This type of retention strap is great incase you were to be in a cold climate and some how get your knife sheath wet say like falling in to water or falling through ice. If you happen to have a knife sheath with snap for the closer. fill the sink up in your kitchen and then put your sheath down into the water for a couple of minutes like if you were in the water for real and then put that knife and sheath into the deep freeze for a couple of hours.
The point I am makingis the SNAP freezes and is hard to get UNSNAPED. Try it and see. This is why Grohman knives has this type of retetion ( button stud) on there #4 survival knives. The Canadain hunters that have fallen through the ice and then got them selves out of the water by the time they reach the place to get a fire going and then reach for there knives the snaps were froze shut. In cold weather it really does not take a very long time to have water freeze on you or you gear if you have gotten wet for some reason.

Again I think this is just another advantage.

Rotte, I tell ya if I did not belive in this retention set up I would not have it on my personal knife sheaths. if they can go through what I put them through with my work then I do not know what to tell ya. If I thought there was a better retention then I would have it. Rember I want every and any ADVANTAGE for me. Scew the rest of you guys lol You know I am just kidding with ya LOL LOL.


Thanks, Gald you like the pic.

When it is done do you want to test it out?????????

I am going to see about making this jump proof with some kydex and some leather. I have an idea on how I am going to do this. anyways let me know.


I hope that kind of answers your ?s on the retention part of the sheath.

Again this has really been a great and interesting thread with all the answers and Ideas that have been said.

Bryan

 

[Rotte]

When it is done do you want to test it out?????????

Let me think about it.



YES!

Of course, you know I love your knives, but I'll be more than happy for an excuse to do a little SERE testing. (Arctic testing at that, we're in the middle of a major snow storm now, likely to end up with over a foot of fresh snow by tomorrow morning.)

I really like the sheath design you and Mistwalker came up with. I get the impression Mistwalker has his act together, and I value what he says. Here's the question though: would you trust that sheath if you were going bungee jumping? Head first? Think big G-forces with abrupt acceleration/deceleration. I think if you punched a couple holes in the sheath up near the handle, you could add a piece of 550 cord to tie it in or a secondary strap and it would be perfect. Or perhaps a means to lock the primary retention strap in place. Something to think about. Maybe I'm being too paranoid, I just know I'd want that knife to show up to the party with me.