What Makes a Good, Traditional Barlow?

[Dr. Scott]

I have never owned or purchased a knife with wood scales. In my world, wood cracks, splits, dries, warps, shrinks, and doesn't last.

From this forum I have learned that all the wood used for handles today is "stabilized." That is, the wood is soaked or treated in some sort of acrylic to make it harder and more durable.

But I have stiil never purchased a wood handled knife. These blackwood and walnut Charlows have me intrigued. But why should I forsake bone for wood?

Please enlighten me, friends. Convince me of the virtues of blackwood, ebony, or walnut!

 

[jon_slider]

> In my world, wood cracks, splits, dries, warps, shrinks, and doesn't last.

true for many woods, not necessarily true for Ebony or other super dense woods

>all the wood used for handles today is "stabilized."

I have some doubts whether Ebony and Blackwood get stabilized, but GEC did tell me that "all our wood" is stabilized. imo they are plenty durable even without Acrylic impregnation

> These blackwood and walnut Charlows have me intrigued. But why should I forsake bone for wood?

wood is warm to the touch, it is less likely to crack when it hits the floor, and is slightly lighter in weight. It is natures Carbon Fiber, and is not part of a dead carcass

> Convince me of the virtues of blackwood, ebony, or walnut!

I have all three. For some reason I really don't like the blackwood. It is super slippery and just gives me a funny feeling. I LOVE the Gabon Ebony that Charlie sourced. I also have a Boys knife in Macassar Ebony that is totally black. It feels dryer than the Gabon. I am absolutely not an expert, but my sense is the Macassar is not stabilized. I would like to believe the Blackwood and Gabon are also unstabilized. They feel different to the touch than the Walnut.

imo only the Walnut NEEDS stabilizing, and it IS stabilized. It is very beautiful, Has been in Charlies family since the 50's, and is imo, the one to get in the current run. I consider the Gabon from Charlies Second run the ultimate pick.

left to right, stabilized Walnut, Macassar Ebony, Gabon Ebony, African Blackwood

you may have seen this, if not, a bit more info about unstabilized wood densities
Walnut 40 pounds per cubic foot
Water 62 pounds
Gabon Ebony 63 pounds, approx 60% denser than walnut
African Blackwood 75 pounds, approx 90% denser than walnut
Acrylic 74 pounds (so walnut that is stabilized will be something less than 74, but more than 40 pounds)
Bone 125 pounds (needs confirmation)

and fwiw, totally subjectively, if I run my thumb over the different materials, the Blackwood is most slick, followed by Gabon, then the stabilized walnut, and the Macassar is the least slick. Macassar also has the most visible pores among the four. The blackwood has the fewest pores, and the Gabon and treated Walnut have almost none but more than blackwood and less than Macassar.

disclaimer, Im reporting based on my single samples, I have no extensive experience with woods. I just have lots of opinions

---

I recently sought confirmation from GEC regarding their use of stabilized materials. Apparently I had misunderstood an earlier conversation. GEC informs me that:
"The only thing we use that is stabilized is Primitive Bone. All the rest of our bone is not stabilized nor are most of the woods"

I will be preparing several delicious servings of figurative Crow, no birds will be harmed during my re-education. I apologize if anyone was misled by my earlier posts that claimed all GEC bone is stabilized. At this point I dont even know if the CheChen is stabilized or not. Feel free to just ignore anything I say until I graduate from knife materials 101, sometime next year maybe.

 

[kamagong]

I'd be more worried about the blade than the wooden covers.

Image by KnifeHead

- Christian

 

[csisland]

To be considered the original ebony, African Blackwood was imported and used in Ancient Egypt thousands of years ago. Even the name “ebony” has an Egyptian derivation as “hbny”—which has been shown to refer to primarily to Dalbergia melanoxylon, rather than the species which are considered to be ebony today: such as those in the Diospyros genus. In addition, African Blackwood is technically in the Rosewood genus (Dalbergia), and is more stable and resistant to movement and warping than other types of ebony.
African Blackwood is considered to be among the hardest and densest of woods in the world.

I'm glad I chose this wood. Love the feel, it's dark yes but different, and I like variety. I have a piece of Africa sitting on my shelf.
I also read that it's taken a step closer to extinction but I'll have to read up on that more.

 

[burnside]

> In my world, wood cracks, splits, dries, warps, shrinks, and doesn't last.

true for many woods, not necessarily true for Ebony or other super dense woods

>all the wood used for handles today is "stabilized."

I have some doubts whether Ebony and Blackwood get stabilized, but GEC did tell me that "all our wood" is stabilized. imo they are plenty durable even without Acrylic impregnation

> These blackwood and walnut Charlows have me intrigued. But why should I forsake bone for wood?

wood is warm to the touch, it is less likely to crack when it hits the floor, and is slightly lighter in weight. It is natures Carbon Fiber, and is not part of a dead carcass

> Convince me of the virtues of blackwood, ebony, or walnut!

I have all three. For some reason I really don't like the blackwood. It is super slippery and just gives me a funny feeling. I LOVE the Gabon Ebony that Charlie sourced. I also have a Boys knife in Macassar Ebony that is totally black. It feels dryer than the Gabon. I am absolutely not an expert, but my sense is the Macassar is not stabilized. I would like to believe the Blackwood and Gabon are also unstabilized. They feel different to the touch than the Walnut.

imo only the Walnut NEEDS stabilizing, and it IS stabilized. It is very beautiful, Has been in Charlies family since the 50's, and is imo, the one to get in the current run. I consider the Gabon from Charlies Second run the ultimate pick.

left to right, stabilized Walnut, Macassar Ebony, Gabon Ebony, African Blackwood

you may have seen this, if not, a bit more info about unstabilized wood densities
Walnut 40 pounds per cubic foot
Gabon Ebony 63 pounds, approx 60% denser than walnut
African Blackwood 75 pounds, approx 90% denser than walnut
Acrylic 74 pounds (so walnut that is stabilized will be something less than 74, but more than 40 pounds)

and fwiw, totally subjectively, if I run my thumb over the different materials, the Blackwood is most slick, followed by Gabon, then the stabilized walnut, and the Macassar is the least slick. Macassar also has the most visible pores among the four. The blackwood has the fewest pores, and the Gabon and treated Walnut have almost none but more than blackwood and less than Macassar.

disclaimer, Im reporting based on my single samples, I have no extensive experience with woods. I just have lots of opinions

Great post! I actually really like the slick feel of the African Blackwood covers. I only have an 85 linerlock with African Blackwood, but I would love to get a Charlow in the same. I especially like the way it feels after a light oiling. I'm also reassured that it is supposedly the most dense of the woods mentioned. The Gabon is also outstanding.

 

[paulhilborn]

you may have seen this, if not, a bit more info about unstabilized wood densities
Walnut 40 pounds per cubic foot
Water 62 pounds
Gabon Ebony 63 pounds, approx 60% denser than walnut
African Blackwood 75 pounds, approx 90% denser than walnut
Acrylic 74 pounds (so walnut that is stabilized will be something less than 74, but more than 40 pounds)
Bone 125 pounds (needs confirmation)

Thanks for that Jon---very interesting!!!

and a picture of course, sun setting behind me as I was coming up the steps of my deck :thumbup:

Then one against the sun---I like how it highlights the needle like tip on the Clip

Paul

 

[meako]

I have a walnut sheepsfoot weighing in at 57g or 2oz also an antique bone clip point single blade weighing in at a massive 2.1oz or 62g.
There fore I conclude bone is heavier than wood.Although I should weigh the blades separately for a more accurate comparison ...but thats not gonna happen.
cheers.

 

[waynorth]

Superfine pictures Paul!
And nice comparison, Jon!
It's amazing how much variation you see when you study the Black woods.
I was under the impression that none of them is stabilized, Macassar, Gabon nor Blackwood. I'll have to verify that. The Walnut definitely is treated.
The various Black woods all have different characters. You have me feeling my knives now, Jon!! Ahem . . .I'll report back!!

 

[Jack Black]

I have a bench sat outside my house made 100 years ago from teak taken from a ship which was captured at the Battle of Trafalgar (1805). The teak is hundreds of years old, and apart from being sunk at least once when it was part of a ship, it's been sat out in the elements, in a British climate, as a bench for the past century. It seems to be getting on OK, and teak is hardly the toughest of woods.

 

[meako]

Wood doesn't need to be a hardwood species to be resistant to water. I believe much of the Australian red cedar that was chopped out of the Sydney area and also down here in "the gong" was made into piers and piles for the London docks. Its a softwood but water resistant. Much of it is probably still there.or so I read.

 

[burnside]

This page calls for some more comparison photos of the blackwoods...

From left to right in the following photo: Macassar Ebony, Gabon Ebony, African Blackwood, and Macassar ebony woods.

Gabon ebony on top, Macassar ebony on bottom...

From left to right: Macassar, Gabon, Macassar, and two African Blackwood 85s...

From left to right: Four Gabon ebony, and two Macassar Ebony (I only have the single gabon clip and two blade macassar ebony left. The rest all went to good homes)...

Both African Blackwood...

The following two photos are of the same knife in Macassar Ebony but in different light displaying the variances of character within the grain...

Gabon Ebony...

Both Gabon Ebony...

Gabon Ebony on the bottom left, Macassar Ebony in the middle...

My favorite blackwood as of right now is the African. I really like how dense it feels. It feels slicker than the gabon and macassar. It can also have a lot of character in the grain depending on the sample you get. MY 85 has an almost burled wavey grain pattern on one side that gives it a rippling effect in certain light.

 

[arizonaranchman]

I'd be more worried about the blade than the wooden covers.

Image by KnifeHead

- Christian

WOW! What's the story behind this knife??? Fascinating picture and what a testimony to those wood scales!

Thanks for sharing.

 

[arizonaranchman]

I have a bench sat outside my house made 100 years ago from teak taken from a ship which was captured at the Battle of Trafalgar (1805). The teak is hundreds of years old, and apart from being sunk at least once when it was part of a ship, it's been sat out in the elements, in a British climate, as a bench for the past century. It seems to be getting on OK, and teak is hardly the toughest of woods.

Hey Jack would you share a pic of this bench sometime (with the obligatory traditional knife included)? That's a fascinating history!

 

[arizonaranchman]

Hey Jack is that the Collosus Charlow he's currently working on??? I've heard rumors about it... And in Sheepfoot no less!!

 

[Jack Black]

Hey Jack would you share a pic of this bench sometime (with the obligatory traditional knife included)? That's a fascinating history!

It's raining heavily outside, but I managed to find a pic on my computer

Hey Jack is that the Collosus Charlow he's currently working on??? I've heard rumors about it... And in Sheepfoot no less!!

Definitely one to look out for!

 

[jon_slider]

Another feature that to me, makes a good traditional barlow, is natural scale materials. imo if you find a Barlow with just 2 pins on the scales, it is likely Delrin, not bone, see the boker on the left, which they called "Improved Stag".

There is also a version of Barlow, made by Schrade in 1974, that used 3 pins on Delrin scales, the model 206 with scrolled bolsters,

The Schrade 206 is also the origin of the 1875-1975 Russell Commemorative:

I have a walnut sheepsfoot weighing in at 57g or 2oz also an antique bone clip point single blade weighing in at a massive 2.1oz or 62g.

I get the same results weighting my Walnut Sheepfoot and my Soupbone Clip Charlow. And since I have a Blackwood Sheep I weighed that too, 58gms.

So, Blackwood weighs 1 gm more than walnut, same blade. Bone Clip weighs 5gms or 9% more than Walnut Sheep (different blades)

> and teak is hardly the toughest of woods.

except we know it is water rot proof. Its density btw, is 61 pounds, almost identical to Gabon Ebony's 63

My favorite blackwood as of right now is the African. I really like how dense it feels. It feels slicker than the gabon and macassar.

Thanks for the fantastic photos. I agree the Blackwood is the slickest. But, looking at your photo of the EO Bullet End Jack, I would have guessed it was Macassar Ebony. When I looked it up on GEC, I could not find it in Blackwood, only Ebony, and the Ebony Gec uses is Macassar (Except the Gabon sourced by Charlie for the 2nd run TC's). I suppose you have better info that the EO is indeed Blackwood, I just could not confirm it.

btw, if you get a chance to weigh your Gabon Single Clip, I would be curious. Similarly curious about the weight of the 2 blade spear Macassar compared to the 2 blade spear with saw cut bone. Absolutely gorgeous photos, thanks!

 

[burnside]

Thanks for the fantastic photos. I agree the Blackwood is the slickest. But, looking at your photo of the EO Bullet End Jack, I would have guessed it was Macassar Ebony. When I looked it up on GEC, I could not find it in Blackwood, only Ebony, and the Ebony Gec uses is Macassar (Except the Gabon sourced by Charlie for the 2nd run TC's). I suppose you have better info that the EO is indeed Blackwood, I just could not confirm it.

btw, if you get a chance to weigh your Gabon Single Clip, I would be curious. Similarly curious about the weight of the 2 blade spear Macassar compared to the 2 blade spear with saw cut bone. Absolutely gorgeous photos, thanks!

The SFO 85 EO Jack was a special factory order done by Mike (own collectorknives.net) They sold out before any of the others, and all that is left now of that run are the single blade linerlock EOs. In low to normal light, that particular african blackwood sample looks completely black. In high sunlight and only in certain angles do the browns show up.

I can weigh the single clip Gabon and the 2 blade Macassar Spearpoint, but I no longer have the two blade saw cut. I will try and get them weighed up later today.

 

[arizonaranchman]

The SFO 85 EO Jack was a special factory order done by Mike (own collectorknives.net) They sold out before any of the others, and all that is left now of that run are the single blade linerlock EOs. In low to normal light, that particular african blackwood sample looks completely black. In high sunlight and only in certain angles do the browns show up.

I can weigh the single clip Gabon and the 2 blade Macassar Spearpoint, but I no longer have the two blade saw cut. I will try and get them weighed up later today.

Check your PM's!

 

[arizonaranchman]

It's raining heavily outside, but I managed to find a pic on my computer





Definitely one to look out for!

Thanks Jack! That's in fantastic condition for 100 yrs old???? Wow

 

[Jack Black]

Thanks Jack! That's in fantastic condition for 100 yrs old???? Wow

Thanks, I'm very proud of it