What should the Knifemaker's Guild do?

[Mike Carter Custom Knives]

STeven - I think my point is pretty clear. This thread has alot of good information in it, but no one with the authority and balls to act seems to be listening. I am beginning to think that some forumites feel that the longer the response, the better. Hey, go for it, but get to someone who will listen and do something about it.

I think that is an unfair statement. See post #120. The Guilds Board of Directors has definitely been listening. Kevin Hoffman pointed out that at least one idea has already been implemented (Facebook). How about giving them some time to discuss the ideas and decide which to implement and when and how.

 

[betzner]

I think that is an unfair statement. See post #120. The Guilds Board of Directors has definitely been listening. Kevin Hoffman pointed out that at least one idea has already been implemented (Facebook). How about giving them some time to discuss the ideas and decide which to implement and when and how.

To be fair, if they are listening, that's a start. I think I was just frustrated at alot of what I was seeing in this thread. Frankly, Mike, I think you handled your end of the thread with extreme tact and think you should be commended for not overreacting like one or two others around here.

 

[Mike Carter Custom Knives]

To be fair, if they are listening, that's a start. I think I was just frustrated at alot of what I was seeing in this thread. Frankly, Mike, I think you handled your end of the thread with extreme tact and think you should be commended for not overreacting like one or two others around here.

Thank you.

Mike

 

[Les Robertson]

Mike:

Facebook: I am sure that posting there would reach a larger audience but there are a lot of people, myself included, who have no interest in Facebook, Twitter, MySpace or any of the other socail networking sites that are the hot place at the moment. I will not sign up with them becuase I don't want all of the spam and security issues associated with them. I get quite enough junk email already thank you.

Obviously you are on the "cutting edge" of marketing...

Kevin Hoffman pointed out that at least one idea has already been implemented (Facebook). How about giving them some time to discuss the ideas and decide which to implement and when and how.

Mike can you really talk out of both sides of your mouth at the same time.

Facebook...what a great idea. Wish I had suggested that...oh yea thats right I DID. Nice to see the Guild has already implemented this.

there are a lot of people, myself included, who have no interest in Facebook,

See Mike this is why you shouldn't be involved in the decision making with regards to the Guild. Just like before when we talked about the photos for the show page. You made the comment that some people don't want to put photos on the page because they didn't want to "mess" with the Internet!

It was then explained to you that the Internet had nothing to do with it. Your response was "the guy who said he didn't want to mess with the Iternet was not a Guild member" Obviously you don't let the "Facts" get in the way of a "good" story. Were you a politician before?

BTW, you can set your facebook page to not received Spam...Judging by your comment I can take it you didn't know about that.

Mike, once again you are answering questions with "I"....it is not about you. It is about the organization and what is best for them.

Mike Carter...going into the 21st Century Kicking and Screaming!

 

[Mike Carter Custom Knives]

Les, Quite to the contrary, it is obvious that it doesn't matter what "I" want or what "I" like. "I" only matters when included in "we".

If I remember correctly Facebook was one of your suggestions but of course now you even have a problem with that.

As far as "I" am concerned your poison is no longer worthy of a response. Why don't you try being supportive or productive for a change. A new experience might be exciting for you.

 

[joshsmith]

I have some ideas that would apply to both the Knifemaker's Guild and the ABS...these are free ideas, no credit necessary, for I am sure that they are not new ideas...just new to these threads. As a Board member of the CKCA, some small reckoning of the scope and depth of these projects are quite familiar....being there is a much larger membership in both organizations, it should be somewhat easier to find able volunteers.

1. Publish a richly detailed and photographed annual membership directory, 1 copy as part of the membership privelege to each Voting or Associate member, at a cost of roughly between $17.50 to $24.95 to all others. Send a copy gratis to recognized periodicals for review, including magazines outside the area like Men's Journal or the Robb Report. There may be too many shows(depends upon the show, doesn't it?) but there will never be too many books.

2. Act as a buying group for those interested. I remember when the Knifemaker's Guild tried to do the health insurance thing, and it was a fiasco. I still think that is viable, but not without the will to make it happen...will of the individual members. Be that as it may, it isn't too far outside the realm to procur all the S30V(or similar) that can be had and sell it to members at the best possible price.

3. Obtain services of proven speakers on subjects such as Federal Tax law, setting up a business, Industrial Health practices....and make these part of the scheduled events at the Knifemaker's Guild Show.

4. The Knifemaker's Guild should interface with just about every organization within the knife community to ask how they may be of service, and inquire as to how the other organizations may be of service to them.

I love the above ideas. It would take a lot of work but if one of the two existing organizations or a new one were to implement these it would be well received I would think. I'm not sure if the tax status of the guild or ABS would allow something like this but maybe one of them could spin something else off to accomplish these goals. At first reaction these ideas seem more geared toward the Knife makers guild than the ABS. Seems these would fit in with the idea of the Guild. I really like the ideas. It would take a dedicated group of like minded individuals with time available to implement the ideas. Not impossible, but challenging. If an organization were to implement something like this I would join in a second just to support it. In a way it would be like a Costco for knife makers. Buy in bulk as a group and save individually.

Good ideas Steven.

 

[Les Robertson]

Mike,

It is late at night...you need to get some sleep. As you no longer are cognizant of what you are writing.

Re-Read my post. I have no problem with Facebook...it was you. Remember all that Spam...you weren't going to sign up, blah blah blah.

Mike, I have a Facebook page. You see I learn about something before I recommend or discourage the use of it. Something I would suggest you try in the future.

If I thought there would have been a problem with it I wouldn't have recommend it.

As far as "I" am concerned your poison is no longer worthy of a response. Why don't you try being supportive or productive for a change. A new experience might be exciting for you.

Mike I was supportive...I WAS THE ONE WHO RECOMMEND FACEBOOK...can you really be that ignorant?

Of course I am poison to you...I have suggestions that can be implemented, measured and will yield results. While all you can do is go "rah rah", while offering "stories (you know the guy who didn't want to "mess" with the Internet that wasn't a member of the Guild...see above). Then make a recommendation not to use something...that you have never tried nor do you have an understanding of how it works.

You offer platitudes and consistently show a high level of ignorance of both marketing tools and utilization of technology.

BTW, how about that guy who didn't want to mess with the Internet. That turned out not to be a "Guild" member. According to you!

If the guy wasn't a member of the Guild wouldn't that mean he could not set up at the show, belong to the Guild and as such could not submit a picture to the photo gallery. As such by making that comment you knew you were not telling the truth.

You speak of the high standards of the Guild. I suspect being a liar is not among those.

Lastly, this is the second time you said you were going to stop responding to me.

 

[Kohai999]

.....Mike,

It is late at night...you need to get some sleep. As you no longer are cognizant of what you are writing......Lastly, this is the second time you said you were going to stop responding to me.

Why do you have such a hard-on for Mike, Les?

Did he turn you down when you were cruising the bathrooms at Hartsfield-Jackson.?

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson

 

[Les Robertson]

Hi STeven,

You know he could walk in my house and I wouldn't know who he is.

What annoys me is that he does nothing but cheer-lead. Which is fine until you then start to believe that all that is needed is a positive attitude, laud platitudes on the show and the Guild and keep the show "intimate".

Why don't you try being supportive or productive for a change. A new experience might be exciting for you.

Can he be that much devoid of comprehension not to realize that it was the email I sent to the Board of Directors. The email that also pointed out the many positive suggestions in this thread. That lead to them to considering and then creating a Facebook page. Granted, this is not the be all to end all. However, it is a "positive" step forward.

The very marketing tool that Mike said he wouldn't sign up for because of Spam. Obviously he is speaking of something he knows nothing about. Perhaps that is it in a nut shell, he tries to talk the talk...but he can't walk the walk.

To date that is the most positive (as in implementation of a marketing tool that will more than likely result in new knife makers and collectors joining the Guild) to occur to date because of the thread that you started.

STeven, like you I don't care what moves any organization within the custom knife world forward....JUST MOVE DAMN IT! Things are broke...FIX THEM.

STeven, I think everyone in this thread wants the best for any knife organization, yes including me. As I have stated over and over again...my comments are not necessiarly for the knife organizations. They are for the collectors who without their support...there would be no knife organizations.

Then again...maybe the majority of custom knife people are happy with the status quo!

 

[Mike Carter Custom Knives]

I suggest those considering a Facebook account first Google "facebook spam" and "facebook security". If that's what people want to use, that's fine with me. I choose not to.

 

[Les Robertson]

Hi STeven,

1. Publish a richly detailed and photographed annual membership directory, 1 copy as part of the membership privelege to each Voting or Associate member, at a cost of roughly between $17.50 to $24.95 to all others. Send a copy gratis to recognized periodicals for review, including magazines outside the area like Men's Journal or the Robb Report. There may be too many shows(depends upon the show, doesn't it?) but there will never be too many books.

2. Act as a buying group for those interested. I remember when the Knifemaker's Guild tried to do the health insurance thing, and it was a fiasco. I still think that is viable, but not without the will to make it happen...will of the individual members. Be that as it may, it isn't too far outside the realm to procur all the S30V(or similar) that can be had and sell it to members at the best possible price.

3. Obtain services of proven speakers on subjects such as Federal Tax law, setting up a business, Industrial Health practices....and make these part of the scheduled events at the Knifemaker's Guild Show.

4. The Knifemaker's Guild should interface with just about every organization within the knife community to ask how they may be of service, and inquire as to how the other organizations may be of service to them.

Love number 1 and 4...excellent suggestions.

Number 2, would be huge for knifeamkers...HUGE. However, due to the fact that 95% of the custom knife makers out there are part timers. There will be a lack of discretionary money...plus the logistics would be almost impossible....as Im sure "volunteers" would be sought to handle this.

Number 3, would be incredibly helpful. But few will attend. Mostly wives and girl friends will be sent to take notes.

BTW, thanks for the comment about all of my ideas being attached to money.

You know I printed that out when Burt first wrote that. I put it on a wall in my office. I took that as a great compliment.

As anyone in business knows...the only reason you start a business is to make a profit. If something isn't making you money...it is probably costing you money. Anyway I got a real kick out of seeing that again. Thanks.

 

[Les Robertson]

Hi Kevin,

Let us know what the Guilds Facebook account is up and running. So those inclined can sign up.

 

[joshsmith]

Mike I have a facebook page for knives, and one for personal and there is no spam or security concerns that I can see. If you go into the settings you can select what you want emailed to you and don't. I don't know if the facebook page actually does anything for my business or not, but at least its there. I was surprised to see how quickly I've had people become fans of my facebook page that I've never heard of. I can understand your reservations about facebook but I don't think you need to worry. I don't think there is any more danger in a facebook page that in having a website...take care.

 

[joshsmith]

Oh, by the way if anyone is interested!! Shameless self promotion!

http://www.facebook.com/home.php#/pages/JOSH-SMITH-KNIVES/128537612399?ref=ts

 

[Mike Carter Custom Knives]

Cheerleader? Yes, as a matter of fact I am. But I am really surprised that Les didn’t notice all of the work I did on behalf of the Guild this past year. Oh, that’s right, he wasn’t there.

But then he can address the Guild’s business. After all that’s why they hold an annual business meeting right? Oh yeah, he wasn’t there either.

But he CAN tell us how he was so disappointed with the show. Oops, wasn’t there either.

But as someone who accused me of being a liar, he can at least demand that the board respond to him because “As an Honorary Member....I am part of that membership”. Uh oh. Maybe ol’ Les better check his membership card because it seems that he hasn’t been a member of the Guild for a while now. Not a voting member, not an associate member, and nope, not even an honorary member.

Of course even if he WERE a member of the Guild he would be subject to disciplinary action anyway because he has repeatedly violated the terms of membership just within this thread. In fact, he has repeatedly violated the rules of THIS forum within this thread.

But I’m sure Les wouldn’t have been aware of that because he doesn’t know squat about the Guild or what they have been doing. Not the Guild of today. All Les knows is hatred because he got his little feelings hurt 15 years ago and can’t get over it.

Les is the kind of guy that would walk up a car wreck and say “Well there’s your problem. You didn’t stop soon enough”.

You know, I can watch Tiger Woods hit a bad shot and I could tell him what he did wrong. He doesn’t need me to tell him and probably wouldn’t appreciate it much if I did. In fact, he probably knew it before I did. He has already realized his mistake and corrected it even before I could say boo. But I’m sure ol’ Les would be there with a list of suggestions. And the next time Tiger hit a great shot, well, Les would be there again telling everyone how he told Tiger how to do it. Les would be easy to spot in the crowd. He would be the one with the 5 iron sticking out of his ass.

Yeah, I know. I let him drag me down to his level. Damn it’s dark down here. I would sure hate to live down here. But no matter. This thread, while it could be a good and much needed discussion, keeps getting Les-ified back into a stupid flame war. It’s point-Les.

I suggest that those who want to discuss the Guild in a rational manner go to the Guild’s forum where name calling and senseless rants are not tolerated. Thanks to all of you who have tried to help. And no, that does not include Les.


Mike Carter

 

[TennKnifeman]

3. Obtain services of proven speakers on subjects such as Federal Tax law, setting up a business, Industrial Health practices....and make these part of the scheduled events at the Knifemaker's Guild Show.

Great idea. Years ago during a time when the Guild required that new members produce a catalog, and I owned a knife magazine and needed to fill it with current info (still have that job of filling a knife magazine come to think of it), I offered the Guild membership a seminar on catalog production, promotion, and how to get free publicity.

Of the eight makers who attended, all but three were examples that I used during my slide show who were doing it right. I asked those five examples afterward why they had come to the seminar, they knew they were doing it right--and each in their own way said they were looking for a new idea or two.

The three who were there who needed the help were advised to send a press release with a photo (the way it was done in those days) to every publication in the field at least twice a year. Due to the small number of attendees I did track who followed that advice. One maker did send in a single press release, another mailed two the first year, the third did not.
I ran all the press releases I received from those two makers who followed my advice. The next year no one sent press releases.

This is not mentioned to drag up ancient history--although some may look at it that way. What it is is to point out that if one mined the suggestions in this forum, indeed even this entire site, there is much stated that would greatly improve most organizations--not just the Guild.

However, the reason for the tone of many of the posters to this thread, and mine as well, is the frustration in offering valid advice from our own business and life experiences that we know to be true and seeing that advice totally ignored or dismissed. It has nothing to do with negative or positive. It is more because the Guild members resist outside advice. The group has done it historically--But we would like to see evidence that the mentality has changed an is not just more repeats of ancient history. I understand that what has been posted here is being taken "under consideration", the only thing that counts in the end is doing something that works. If things have changed--SHOW US, DON'T TELL US.

I mentioned in an earlier post about the Guild show of non-Guild members saying something at the Guild meeting during the "for the Good of the Guild" section of the meeting and being accosted after the meeting and challenged for daring to say something when they were not knifemakers. At the Louisville Guild Show one friend told me he had not had a good evening the night before.

"What? You made the mistake of saying something in the Guild meeting?"

"Yes, I did." he answered.

Knifemakers as a group seem to not want anyone helping guide things. The Guild has resisted collector help for years. Again I say the Guild should offer a seat on the Guild Board to a delegate elected from the Honorary members.

As collectors we have a vested interest in the success of this business. If we could get the already existing organizations--all of them--to get the bus turned in the right direction other than driving toward the cliff--we could see the values of the knives we hold increase dramatically in value. Instead what I hear is, "I'm driving the bus, get off now if you want." The problem is there are more people than we want to admit who have their hand on that bell cord hanging over the window.

As collectors, dealers, editors, suppliers, auctioneers, etc. we have paid our dues and our ticket to the party. We've earned the right to comment on it through expenditures of time, money, and effort. And if a comment is negative and the person saying it has the background, experience, and bona fides to make a negative comment I say anyone reading it should be asking themselves before anything else-- is the criticism valid?"

And the people who shout a negative criticism down should do so only after consideration of the statement and its validity.

The one thing that bothers me the most about posts on internet forums is often we have no way of knowing who is posting. We have no way of knowing the background and qualifications of those making statements. It is possible to make a comment in these threads about shows and have never attended a show. And it gets the same credibility as someone who has attended 15 shows a year for 25 years.

 

[TennKnifeman]

BONA FIDES:

For the purpose of this thread--perhaps to establish everyone's credibility and the authority on which they make statements, please post back how many years you have attended Guild Shows, and your role in those, and your status as Guild members or former members. I'll be glad to start.

And listing your real name might not hurt.

Bruce Voyles
First Guild show 1976- Dallas Expo (Incidentally this Guild show included the Texas Gun Collectors Association, the forming meeting of the Antique Bowie Knife Collectors Association, the Texas National Knife Collectors Show, and with manufacturers booths around the wall. Heck of a concept I thought at the time).
1977-1980-Exhibited as editor of National Knife Collectors Association.
1981-1994-Exhibited as owner of Blade Magazine, and Blade Books.
1994-1999-Attended as an Honorary member (since 1978). No table.
2000-present Exhibited and/or attended as editor of Knives Illustrated. (I did miss one show during that time frame).

During that time handled the advertising for Guild Show for the Dallas show in the 80's, and managed the Guild show as a consultant to the Guild for three years in the last decade.

Also produced "Today's Knifemakers" A directory of the Knifemakers Guild, for 2 editions.

OK, WHO'S NEXT?

 

[ddd]

... 1. Publish a richly detailed and photographed annual membership directory, 1 copy as part of the membership privelege to each Voting or Associate member, at a cost of roughly between $17.50 to $24.95 to all others. Send a copy gratis to recognized periodicals for review, including magazines outside the area like Men's Journal or the Robb Report. There may be too many shows(depends upon the show, doesn't it?) but there will never be too many books......

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson

Just for information sake.

Three years ago I was prompted to contact a Guild Board member, Eugene Shadley,
and detail out an idea to create a Guild Member book.
One or two pages per member including my kind of quality setup of portrait and knives.
I suggested one 300 or 600 page volume or two volumes.

I also quoted the numbers and a very reasonable quote it was....

I suggested that the Guild Board coordinate the flow of material (pictures an text) from
the members and that I shall do the rest.

I even sent him one of my books as a sample of the quality I can offer.

There was a spark of interest at first and then I never heard from them any more...
Now, after reading this thread, I have a feeling that I may have been lucky not to have
begun with this adventure...

As I said, just for information sake...

All the best,
David Darom (ddd)

 

[stephanfowler]

1

1. Publish a richly detailed and photographed annual membership directory, 1 copy as part of the membership privilege to each Voting or Associate member, at a cost of roughly between $17.50 to $24.95 to all others. Send a copy gratis to recognized periodicals for review, including magazines outside the area like Men's Journal or the Robb Report. There may be too many shows(depends upon the show, doesn't it?) but there will never be too many books.

Even if it was published for a discounted sale to members this would be a wonderful tool for promotion of Handmade knives

2. Act as a buying group for those interested. I remember when the Knifemaker's Guild tried to do the health insurance thing, and it was a fiasco. I still think that is viable, but not without the will to make it happen...will of the individual members.

I am also a member of ABANA (Artist Blacksmith Assoc of N America) and they offer group insurance to their members, I'm SURE with a little leg work the ABS or Guild could do the same, or they could talk to ABANA about getting under their umbrella (not likely, but possible)

3. Obtain services of proven speakers on subjects such as Federal Tax law, setting up a business, Industrial Health practices....and make these part of the scheduled events at the Knifemaker's Guild Show.

SIGN ME UP

4. The Knifemaker's Guild should interface with just about every organization within the knife community to ask how they may be of service, and inquire as to how the other organizations may be of service to them.

Can't help but wonder what the chances are of a government (US) official "looking into" the legalization of India stag, Mexican Ironwood, Russian Mammoth Ivory, etc

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson

Mike I have a facebook page for knives, and one for personal and there is no spam or security concerns that I can see. If you go into the settings you can select what you want emailed to you and don't. I don't know if the facebook page actually does anything for my business or not, but at least its there. I was surprised to see how quickly I've had people become fans of my facebook page that I've never heard of. I can understand your reservations about facebook but I don't think you need to worry. I don't think there is any more danger in a facebook page that in having a website...take care.

As a good friend of mine says "Facebook and Twitter are personal advertising"
Knifemakers need ALL the advertising they can get.

Hi Kevin,

Let us know what the Guilds Facebook account is up and running. So those inclined can sign up.

I would hope to see a LOT of announcements and promotion from guild members on this and other forums when that happens. If the ABS were to do the same I know I at least would be telling everyone I could about it.

Again, Knifemakers need ALL the advertising they can get.

Of the eight makers who attended, all but three were examples that I used during my slide show who were doing it right. I asked those five examples afterward why they had come to the seminar, they knew they were doing it right--and each in their own way said they were looking for a new idea or two.

The three who were there who needed the help were advised to send a press release with a photo (the way it was done in those days) to every publication in the field at least twice a year. Due to the small number of attendees I did track who followed that advice. One maker did send in a single press release, another mailed two the first year, the third did not.
I ran all the press releases I received from those two makers who followed my advice. The next year no one sent press releases.

That is a PITIFUL indictment of the typical business acumen of knifemakers, albeit unfortunately true.

 

[A T Barr]

BONA FIDES:

For the purpose of this thread--perhaps to establish everyone's credibility and the authority on which they make statements, please post back how many years you have attended Guild Shows, and your role in those, and your status as Guild members or former members. I'll be glad to start.


OK, WHO'S NEXT?

Hello Bruce, as usual a great post.

My first year as a probationary member was '95. IIRC, my first year to miss a show since '95 was the '07. I had my knee replaced and could not travel. I did not attend the '08 show.

At the '09 show I attended as a knifemaker and also as an Associate member. And before our main critic asks, yes I paid not only my "Voting Member" dues, I paid my "Associate Member" dues.

As far as our main critic, I doubt if he's currently a "Honorary Member" or an "Associate Member".

On http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=677914&page=3 post #98 he stated

"Since Gil is the President of the Guild, yes it is his duty and his obligation to be accountable to the membership. As an Honorary Member....I am part of that membership. As such I asked him to respond to this thread.....as well as the other Board members. I demanded nothing.....I asked."

If he is a current "Honorary Member", he won't be for long. In the bylaws http://www.knifemakersguild.com/bylaws.shtml under sec. 3. item 4, d.

Section 3:
4. The following acts, omissions or conduct by a member of the Guild are prohibited, and will subject a member to disciplinary action:

d. any action, which is significantly detrimental to the public image, reputation, well-being or financial condition of the Guild;

It will also interesting to see how many years "he" has attended the Guild show. The same for all the other critics that post criticism under a false name, and some didn't attend the '09 show.

Bruce I sincerely thank you for all you have done for the Guild in the past and will in the future.

A.T. Barr (Proud Voting and Associate member of the Knifemakers' Guild)