What should the Knifemaker's Guild do?

[Les Robertson]

Hi Kevin,

Great news.

 

[Keith Montgomery]

If people really want to work from lessons learned, mend the fences and cultivate some synergy that will benefit all of us, then drop all of posturing and just talk in a respectful manner with an open mind. Nothing is going to be accomplished if we cannot do that.

I couldn't agree more with that sentiment.

 

[Les Robertson]

Hi Keith,

The sign over the entryway to Building 4 (at Ft. Benning Georgia) says....

Lead, Follow or Get the Hell Out of The Way!

You will notice for all of Mike's "posturing" he accomplished nothing. It was excellent suggestions by many in this thread and an email (that Mike thought I was way out of line to "demand" answers). Which lead to a conference call among the board members.

Kumbaya had nothing to do with it.

 

[A. G. Russell]

Hi Keith,

The sign over the entryway to Building 4 (at Ft. Benning Georgia) says....

Lead, Follow or Get the Hell Out of The Way!

You will notice for all of Mike's "posturing" he accomplished nothing. It was excellent suggestions by many in this thread and an email (that Mike thought I was way out of line to "demand" answers). Which lead to a conference call among the board members.

Kumbaya had nothing to do with it.

Les,

I don't understand the vitriol, Mike seems quite sincere to me. Have I missed something?

 

[betzner]

The more I read these competing threads, the more I can see why some collectors don't want to participate in the forum. This has nothing to do with knives and everything to do with people and business.

As a retired senior executive of a Fortune 100 company, I have seen meeting after meeting that have gone nowhere and accomplished nothing. Why? Not because of good suggestions, but because of personality conflicts and people who don't have the authority and balls to make decisions.

That's my two cents. That's all I am willing to spend on competing threads that go nowhere.

 

[Les Robertson]

Hi AG,

Yes you missed something...you are part of the "Ancient" History that Mike feels that is no longer has anything to do with the Guild.

Then again, maybe you are just being a wise guy and I missed the sarcasm in your post.

 

[Les Robertson]

HI Bob,

You are right. At this point we should only be hearing from the Board Members of the Guild.

My point about the sign over building 4 goes right to your point about leadership issues.

I make my posts not for the Boards or knife makers. But for the collectors who need to understand exactly what Knife Organizations...do and do not do for their members.

This includes collectors.

 

[Mike Carter Custom Knives]

I still stand by my dismissal of ancient history and past problems because they have been recognized and lessons have been learned. If nothing had been learned, then yes it would still be relevant.

I have seen no examples of the past problems occuring now. I have seen no current or recent example cited by anyone of anyone being excluded, or forced out of the Guild. The current members who have spoken have said that they feel the board is receptive and responsive to them.

Those who are taking a contrary position to everything the Guilds does like to pick only the things tht suit their argument. When it suits them, the membership has no say or power. Later, when it suits them, the board is irrelevant and only the mebmership has the say.

The members do have power. The power of their vote. My idividual vote, like my opinion, may not mean much if it is only my opinion. However, if the majority of the idividuals vote the same way and are of the same opinion it means that is the way it should be and will be. As I said earlier, no group can do anything without individual action. That is exactly why summarily dismissing those who have enthusiasm for the group is silly.

I would imagine that there are still hurt feelings and grudges borne by current Guild members but it is worth noting that none of them have come on here making accusations or derrogatory statements.

Some are trying to give the impression that there are serious problems within the Guild that need to be fixed but I have seen no specific item addressed other than the Guild and the show is not as large as it once was. Yes it is obvious that people left the Guild. Others have stayed and new members have joined.

In general I am happy with the way the Guild is functioning and direction it is going. I was at the business meeting and if there were significant problems within the membership I think they should have and would have been aired at that time. Some did get up and address the board with concerns and suggestions. Those comments were listened to, as witnessed by the membership, and I am sure they will be addressed.

I do not feel that Guild necessarily needs to start a massive campaign to get the membership numbers back to what it once was and/or put on a 400 table show. I don't think we should recruit just for the purpose of adding to the roster. I think we should seek and welcome those who share the Guilds purpose and standards.

Likewise, I think the show is a nice size as I have already described. If it naturally grows to accomodate the makers and the collectors, great. If it turns out that 150 tables or so works and it remains a quality smaller show that everyone enjoys, I don't see a problem with that.

 

[Les Robertson]

Mike:

I don not feel that Guild needs to start a massive campaign to get the membership numbers back to what it once was and/or put on a 400 table show. I don't think we should recruit just for the purpose of adding to the roster. I think we should seek and welcome those who share the Guilds purpose and standards.

You have made it perfectly clear that you want to keep the show small and cozy.

As you have only attended a couple of custom knife shows. I will let you in on a secret.

Collectors like shows with a lot of knives. The more knives the better. They like to look at the diversity of knives, materials and styles. If the Guild went out and recruited makers with a following.

This would bring more collectors to the show...the more collectors the more makers want to attend, the more makers...the more collectors want to attend.

The more collectors who are attending, the greater the buzz for the show.

The greater the "buzz" the more desirable the show becomes to both makers and collectors.

 

[Mike Carter Custom Knives]

Les, once again you pick and choose the words you want and twist the meaning. Read it again. If the Guild grows to thousands of members that's wonderful. I said "I don't think we should recruit just for the purpose of adding to the roster."

Collectors want to see a lot of QUALITY knives, not just a bunch of knives. I strongly beleive the Guild should maintain it's standards of evaluating the craftsmanship and business ethics of it's applicants. Not everyone will make the cut the first itme out. Maybe some will never make it if they don't treat their customers right or if their work never improves.

Everyone keeps comparing to the Blade Show. My table at the last Blade show was near a table selling cheap imported factory junk. Yes that added another table and more knives to the show but I sincerely doubt that it was what collectors or my customers came looking for.

 

[Les Robertson]

Mike,

First I deal only in custom knives so when I speak of adding members to the ranks...it is custom knife makers.

Everyone keeps comparing to the Blade Show. My table at the last Blade show was near a table selling cheap imported factory junk. Yes that added another table and more knives to the show but I sincerely doubt that it was what collectors or my customers came looking for.

Yea it is tough to be the "newby". I agree the Blade Show should have just waited till they had a table in the Guild section for you. Might take a couple of years for you to get a table, but it would be in a better location.

You should probably contact the Show and let them know you won't be coming back till they get that fixed.

Next, does the Guild allow factory junk? If not then they would not be allowed to become members. Correct?

So that won't be an issue.

Did the Blade Show give you a reason as to why you were next to the factory junk?

After all didn't they realize you were a probationary member in the Guild? I suspect they just didn't know how important you think you are.

Can it be any wonder why as you wrote "The Shows Future hangs in the Balance" or am I twisting your words again.

 

[A T Barr]

I suspect they just didn't know how important you think you are.

Talk about the kettle calling the pot black.

A.T.

 

[Sidehill Gouger]

Mike,

I've been to enough Blade shows (something like the last 20 or so straight) to know those tables with the imported junk in the back of the room sell a ton of stuff to kids that are just getting started in collecting. And those kids are the future of the Guild because most of them are dreaming of the day they can afford a real custom

I'm going to make the assumption no one would mistake your knives for the Chinese ninja specials. So why should you feel so threatened by them?

The bigger and more diverse a show is the more people are going to come.

 

[Mike Carter Custom Knives]

Mike,

I've been to enough Blade shows (something like the last 20 or so straight) to know those tables with the imported junk in the back of the room sell a ton of stuff to kids that are just getting started in collecting. And those kids are the future of the Guild because most of them are dreaming of the day they can afford a real custom

I'm going to make the assumption no one would mistake your knives for the Chinese ninja specials. So why should you feel so threatened by them?

The bigger and more diverse a show is the more people are going to come.

I don't recall ever saying I was threatened by them. In fact I think it is one of the reasons Blade is a great show. I think a lot of people who come for one thing may be exposed to another and that's a good thing. The Blade Show covers everything cutlery.

The Guild Show of course is all custom knives made by Guild memebrs as it should be. My point is that the Guild should continue to set a standard of excellence and require their members to achieve at least a minimum standard of craftsmanship to be included. They could allow anyone who pays the dues and makes something that roughly looks like a knife to join. That would increase their numbers but lower the quality of the membership and the show. I would prefer it continue to maintain its standards even if that means fewer new members.

 

[severedthumbs]

seems like we keep beating the same dead horse over and over in this thread.


all this bickering and fighting make one wonder if these types of organizations even needed anymore in todays knife times?

 

[cfendley]

Everyone keeps comparing to the Blade Show. My table at the last Blade show was near a table selling cheap imported factory junk. Yes that added another table and more knives to the show but I sincerely doubt that it was what collectors or my customers came looking for.

And if I may add, that cheap imported junk was in the handmade section of the show.

If we are to compare the two, I had a table at both and the Guild did a much better job on their show than Blade did this year.

 

[Kohai999]

You will notice for all of Mike's "posturing" he accomplished nothing. It was excellent suggestions by many in this thread and an email (that Mike thought I was way out of line to "demand" answers). Which lead to a conference call among the board members.

Kumbaya had nothing to do with it.

1. Screw kumbaya, ok? Naysayers always drag out the "kumbaya" when they see someone trying to broker an accord amongst disparate parties as a sign of weakness. If you "kill 'em all"(or drive away most of the potential buyers) there is no one left to buy knives.

2. I think Mike is to be commended for having a positive outlook on this, and the other threads that are similar.....and while we all appreciate your input and actions(pot calling the kettle black) it wouldn't hurt you to dial it back from "full on" prick to "spicy".

The more I read these competing threads, the more I can see why some collectors don't want to participate in the forum. This has nothing to do with knives and everything to do with people and business.
As a retired senior executive of a Fortune 100 company, I have seen meeting after meeting that have gone nowhere and accomplished nothing. Why? Not because of good suggestions, but because of personality conflicts and people who don't have the authority and balls to make decisions.

That's my two cents. That's all I am willing to spend on competing threads that go nowhere.

Bob, I'm trying to see your point here, and not getting it. People and business is what knives are about, where they come from, the origins. The knives are made by people in business. You collect Erickson knives from a person.

I have some ideas that would apply to both the Knifemaker's Guild and the ABS...these are free ideas, no credit necessary, for I am sure that they are not new ideas...just new to these threads. As a Board member of the CKCA, some small reckoning of the scope and depth of these projects are quite familiar....being there is a much larger membership in both organizations, it should be somewhat easier to find able volunteers.

1. Publish a richly detailed and photographed annual membership directory, 1 copy as part of the membership privelege to each Voting or Associate member, at a cost of roughly between $17.50 to $24.95 to all others. Send a copy gratis to recognized periodicals for review, including magazines outside the area like Men's Journal or the Robb Report. There may be too many shows(depends upon the show, doesn't it?) but there will never be too many books.

2. Act as a buying group for those interested. I remember when the Knifemaker's Guild tried to do the health insurance thing, and it was a fiasco. I still think that is viable, but not without the will to make it happen...will of the individual members. Be that as it may, it isn't too far outside the realm to procur all the S30V(or similar) that can be had and sell it to members at the best possible price.

3. Obtain services of proven speakers on subjects such as Federal Tax law, setting up a business, Industrial Health practices....and make these part of the scheduled events at the Knifemaker's Guild Show.

4. The Knifemaker's Guild should interface with just about every organization within the knife community to ask how they may be of service, and inquire as to how the other organizations may be of service to them.

I don't think these threads are a waste of time. There are those who may think otherwise, but I would ask how they are contributing to the overall betterment of the community, and if the answer is "not", maybe some introspection is called for.

A good friend of mine, a superb person and top-tier maker, has said that Les Robertson never had an idea that wasn't attached to a dollar sign. He lets his personal distate for Les cloud the good things(there are many) that Les brings to the community table.

If we can't get over our individual distaste, for wrongs and perceived wrongs, past, present and future in order to accomplish great things, we will accomplish nothing.

The time is now, if your Boards, your elected leaders are not listening, make them listen. If they will not act for you, you act against them. If they betray your trust, betray the ideals the organizations were founded on, leave them, and build anew. Burn down the old, and new great things will rise from the ashes. I have seen it with my own eyes.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson

 

[JatMat]

Well Said STeven, I agree 100%:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:
JIm

 

[betzner]

1. Screw kumbaya, ok? Naysayers always drag out the "kumbaya" when they see someone trying to broker an accord amongst disparate parties as a sign of weakness. If you "kill 'em all"(or drive away most of the potential buyers) there is no one left to buy knives.

2. I think Mike is to be commended for having a positive outlook on this, and the other threads that are similar.....and while we all appreciate your input and actions(pot calling the kettle black) it wouldn't hurt you to dial it back from "full on" prick to "spicy".



Bob, I'm trying to see your point here, and not getting it. People and business is what knives are about, where they come from, the origins. The knives are made by people in business. You collect Erickson knives from a person.

I have some ideas that would apply to both the Knifemaker's Guild and the ABS...these are free ideas, no credit necessary, for I am sure that they are not new ideas...just new to these threads. As a Board member of the CKCA, some small reckoning of the scope and depth of these projects are quite familiar....being there is a much larger membership in both organizations, it should be somewhat easier to find able volunteers.

1. Publish a richly detailed and photographed annual membership directory, 1 copy as part of the membership privelege to each Voting or Associate member, at a cost of roughly between $17.50 to $24.95 to all others. Send a copy gratis to recognized periodicals for review, including magazines outside the area like Men's Journal or the Robb Report. There may be too many shows(depends upon the show, doesn't it?) but there will never be too many books.

2. Act as a buying group for those interested. I remember when the Knifemaker's Guild tried to do the health insurance thing, and it was a fiasco. I still think that is viable, but not without the will to make it happen...will of the individual members. Be that as it may, it isn't too far outside the realm to procur all the S30V(or similar) that can be had and sell it to members at the best possible price.

3. Obtain services of proven speakers on subjects such as Federal Tax law, setting up a business, Industrial Health practices....and make these part of the scheduled events at the Knifemaker's Guild Show.

4. The Knifemaker's Guild should interface with just about every organization within the knife community to ask how they may be of service, and inquire as to how the other organizations may be of service to them.

I don't think these threads are a waste of time. There are those who may think otherwise, but I would ask how they are contributing to the overall betterment of the community, and if the answer is "not", maybe some introspection is called for.

A good friend of mine, a superb person and top-tier maker, has said that Les Robertson never had an idea that wasn't attached to a dollar sign. He lets his personal distate for Les cloud the good things(there are many) that Les brings to the community table.

If we can't get over our individual distaste, for wrongs and perceived wrongs, past, present and future in order to accomplish great things, we will accomplish nothing.

The time is now, if your Boards, your elected leaders are not listening, make them listen. If they will not act for you, you act against them. If they betray your trust, betray the ideals the organizations were founded on, leave them, and build anew. Burn down the old, and new great things will rise from the ashes. I have seen it with my own eyes.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson

STeven - I think my point is pretty clear. This thread has alot of good information in it, but no one with the authority and balls to act seems to be listening. I am beginning to think that some forumites feel that the longer the response, the better. Hey, go for it, but get to someone who will listen and do something about it.

 

[Lorien]

that was a great post, Steven. Well said.