What's so special about a bushcraft knife?

[Elen]

(wrote good stuff here)

I certainly agree that the "one knife" concept is weird and contrived, and more in the realm of theoretical what-iffery than reality. The whole "only one knife" concept should be abandoned as pointless.

However, the Scandi type "bushcraft knives" don't even pretend to be a do-all tool, unlike the big "Tarzan A" survival knife. If a person claims that these knives are "do-all", then there is some type of delusion going on in that person's head, but that is not the fault of the knife. The Scandinavian style small belt knives are intended to be carried with an axe. So you've got one knife and one axe. If you can't do the job with those tools, then you probably can't do it even if you're given a whole team of half-naked Canadian lumberjacks with a couple of strippers to keep them happy during breaks.

Of course, since we can only carry so much weight, everything we carry is a compromise of sorts. It would be incorrect to claim that "indigenous groups" didn't carry a very limited tool set - they did. They had very limited tools "at home", and even more limited "out in the woods." Here in Finland, for example, the traditional set of tools carried by "indigenous groups" was a simple small knife (puukko) and a simple large axe. This very limited tool set of two tools, one for small work and one for large, was used to do practically everything from spreading butter on the bread to building a rudimentary cabin. Of course, it was preferable to have more stuff, especially a saw, but that often wasn't practically possible.

 

[Cpl Punishment]

Woo Hoo! Good post, won't repeat it, go read it yerselves

[Stirring the Pot] Or we can point out the obvious fact that the kukri is superior to all of the above and the Nepali people are smart enough to put a small knife and a sharpener in the same sheath with it. [/Stirring the Pot]

I certainly agree that the "one knife" concept is weird and contrived, and more in the realm of theoretical what-iffery than reality. The whole "only one knife" concept should be abandoned as pointless.

However, the Scandi type "bushcraft knives" don't even pretend to be a do-all tool, unlike the big "Tarzan A" survival knife. If a person claims that these knives are "do-all", then there is some type of delusion going on in that person's head, but that is not the fault of the knife.

Technically, the big knife isn't trying to do all, either. Rather it's the One-Knifers again trying to make it so.
I have seen the trend though (and you have too, reading this forum) that the "bushcraft knife" is the only knife needed and it's a waste to carry a machete/axe/BFK/[Stirring the Pot]all-superior[/Stirring the Pot] kukri as a companion.

So, I think we've beaten it to death that the "one tool to rule them all" philosophy is wrong, no matter which tool you choose. People who've lived off the land have always chosen two tools (one big, one small) as their minimum, augmented by a few others for specific tasks.

 

[Elen]

Technically, the big knife isn't trying to do all, either. Rather it's the One-Knifers again trying to make it so.
I have seen the trend though (and you have too, reading this forum) that the "bushcraft knife" is the only knife needed and it's a waste to carry a machete/axe/BFK/[Stirring the Pot]all-superior[/Stirring the Pot] kukri as a companion.

Honestly, to me, it seems that quite a few big knives were made to "do-all", at least according to the people who make and market them. In fact, I'd go as far as saying that the whole One-Knife thing in part started because of makers saying stuff like: "You just take my knife with you and you can do everything from cutting your bread to chopping your shelter and won't need no small knife or axe - this big knife that I make will do it all for you." But yeah, I'd still agree with you that it's mostly the One-Knife people that spread the idea that big knives are meant to be used as One Tool To Rule Them All when big knives in fact are better left for chopping and such while being supported by a small knife for precision work. I enjoy big knives as much as any healthy knife nut. I love chopping some firewood with a big knife. I'll just "always" bring along a smaller knife, too, for the small stuff.

So, I think we've beaten it to death that the "one tool to rule them all" philosophy is wrong, no matter which tool you choose. People who've lived off the land have always chosen two tools (one big, one small) as their minimum, augmented by a few others for specific tasks.

Indeed. I wonder what more could be done to dispel the whole One Tool To Rule Them All philosophy. Do we have to haul some specific object into some remote volcanic area or what?

 

[Steel-Junky]

I am taking this way to seriously...hmmm, so you are not? I thought that you were intellingently trying to learn through debate? Dont misunderstand my posts for anger...trust me, I'm good.

Don't misunderstand mine as such either. It's really all good.

I am insecure, and unhappy with myself...

If this is true I don't mean to rub it in... I'm just saying that I wasn't trying to insist anything about you as a person because of what knife you like or dislike. I apologize if I actually did insult youor hurt your feelings. I will say I am a blunt person and I do have a habit of saying things point blank a lot.

while you speculate on my state of affairs..and dissect my post, you are basically refusing to do 2 things,
1. differentiate between "bushcraft" and a "bushcraft knife"...or is this part of the overall plan.
2. listen to other posters, that have patiently tried to answer your questions.

1. You might be right on this point. I tend to lump footballs in as something you only use while playing football. So I guess I would lump a BC knife into something you would use to perform BC. A knife is a great thing that can often do more than what it was mainly designed for though... not so with a football LOL. But we're me and only a few other people keep butting heads is that for me... I don't see the point in making a BC knife my main instrument because the the things it excels at (Wood Carving) are not things I consider to be useful skills to me... not that they don't have value... just not to me. The things that a BC knife can do that are of value to me... can also be done by other knives just as well.

2. This point isn't true. One member pointed me out some knives... I looked at them and will consider them. But I think I'm leaning more towards actual wood carving knives specifically. And another member suggested some reading which I intend to look into. And I did watch some of the videos suggested and took them for what they're worth. It just seemed to me that the things that a BC knife excels at far and beyond what any other knife can do don't strike me as survival skills but wood crafting skills. Which AGAIN... is cool... just not something I see as a must learn.

The old saying.."dont ask questions you dont want the answers to" I think applies. If I am correct, and I think I am..the OP Question was.."what makes a bushcraft knife so great?"..this then lead into the " I have a Busse, why cant this work? type of direction...basically the old dow eyed bait and catch ploy.

No ploy... I asked why wouldn't a Busse work and was shown that a Busse might be too thick and hefty to do things like carve a pipe. Which I believe may be true... I'm sure there is someone somewhere who can... but more than likely not me. But in general a Busse wouldn't be good for this task. But then the knife's ability to do things like make shelters, traps, snares, clean game come into question and this is simply not true. Such a knife does a wonderful job. But there are some that feel that if it can't also carve a pipe... it isn't a worthwhile wilderness knife. Such thinking is closed minded and simply not accurate. It wasn't a trap I carefully set to get people into a Busse Vs Scandi argument. It's just they way it turned as threads on boards like this do when people with strong points of view come together. I don't know of any group of men who can get together and not debate something. I know of no men who will sit around a camp fire and just keep agreeing with each other all night and shaking each other's hands. But in a setting like this if someone has a different opinion than the common accepted norm... they get called a troll if they choose to defend their position.

The bottom line is, without a play by play...you want to state your idea of "survival" ...declare it to the whole forum...and then, when others, who I might add, have just a little bit of info in this area...add there ideas or suggestions..you ask more questions..questions that imply your dissagreement.

This statement proves your bias. Someone comes in with a different opinion than the collective or resident "Experts" and he's a troll with a plot to cause an argument. I just differ a little bit on some of my thoughts. Doesn't make me right... doesn't make me wrong either just because I might disagree about something stated from someone you consider to be a personal hero or expert.

This is called, passive agressive. Since you alluded to my mental state of being..I will make an assumption to yours..you get into ALOT of arguments.

No it isn't. It's called having a different opinion. You call it passive agressive because I've challenged some of your ideas and you want to lable me as the bad guy. And yes... i do get into a lot of arguments because I question EVERYTHING. I accept nothing as a given and expect people to back up their point of view. People have asked me quesitons in here as well. Some think my answers or line of reasoning is not sound... that's ok... but I stated why I think what I think and that's all need be done. I accept nothing just because some guy who wrote a book said so. Now if they can prove it... then we got something there. But I do get into a lot of arguments... mostly because I ask people... Why? And that's a question people who tie their stance to their pride DO NOT like. Because they think I'm questioning their integrity. When really I'm just questioning the integrity of their ideal.

By the way,..I am extremely unhappy and I do have a small knife...so your jabs at me really, really really hurt. Now I am gonna go sharpen my FFBM..because it makes me smile.

If you're joking that's fine. But if you're serious I'm sorry that you are unhappy. There is a lot of that going around right now with our new president and the state of our economy. And I apologize if my comment about a small knife hurt you. I so didn't mean it that way. I have small knives too. They're very useful for things. I can do far more day to day tasks with a small blade than I can with a machete. So to say "Little Knife" in my world is a statement of fact about the knife... and not to suggest anything about the user.

 

[Steel-Junky]

Thats funny.. He calls you insecure. Isn't he the one that went on the defensive after a few thought that their choiless and guardless 4" thin Scandi knives may be a lil better suited for precision cutting tasks than his hard use knives. Then didn't he say that he liked the fact that he, along with some others could stand on his knife if he had to. I wonder which one of his 9 Busse's he does that with........

I never said having a choil on a knife was key to it being useful... only that I like them. You put words in my mouth sir. And no... I didn't go on the offensive about anything other than the statement that a Busse isn't a useful wilderness knife. Such a statement is just absurd. And I do like that fact that one or more of my could support my weight if need be. I have actually done it with my Battle Mistress. But I know that my NO-E and probably even my Mean Street could do it since they are the same thickness only shorter. I've never NEEDED to do that. But then again... no one NEEDS to be able to make a pipe either. So we're both arguing positives of a knife that really don't matter in the real world aren't we. I hold strength above delicate carving. You obviously hold the opposite in high regard... it's cool. But again... to suggest that a wonderfully useful tool is not so because it won't perform a few trivial tasks that some may or not consider vital anyway... is just crazy. And if you read back... I never said a Scandi BC Knife was not a worthwhile tool. Just that it lacked in certain areas that other knives excel... as stated many times on this entire forum... no one knife can do it all.

 

[woodgood]

I have been reading this thread off and on the past couple of days and have not read everything posted but I have skimmed through it if you will.

I think that most everyone's opinion is valid. But opinions are opinions if you know what I mean. We are all individuals and have different needs, interests, desires, passions, etc. It's a shame that people get offended when opposition comes their way but that is just human nature I guess.

In my personal life I too question many things and I do it all of the time. This does offend some/most people as they feel that I am questioning their integrity or feel that I am trying to make them look bad or some other misconception. I often come across, so I am told, as a know it all. This comes, I think, because I do question many things and vocalize them to others. I treat it as a learning process myself. I feel that I am being an opened minded person and I am either trying to learn something new myself or sometimes I feel that sharing what I have learned or experienced may be beneficial to others and we can then both learn from communicating with one another.

I know that I need to learn how to better communicate, primarily in face to face conversations, so that I do not come on as confrontational. But as I have seen from this thread that even non face-to-face conversations can easily be seen/come across as confrontational in nature. I have tried a couple of different approaches to starting a conversation on a topic that I know will end up as being interpreted as confrontational but I have not found one that always works.

Sorry to ramble on about non-knife topics but I just thought that the feel of this thread is interesting both from a knife interest standpoint and on a human nature standpoint.

We all can learn from one another!

But back to the topic that was posted, well really to the topic that was inferred in this thread. Has anyone ever seen or have a desire to see an "improved axe and combination knife and axe handle? I found this patent on one that I though would be of interest to some: http://www.google.com/patents?id=9vJGAAAAEBAJ&printsec=abstract&zoom=4&dq=knife+axe+combined+same+handle#PPA1,M1

 

[tonym]

I never said having a choil on a knife was key to it being useful... only that I like them. You put words in my mouth sir. .

I never said you did I am sorry if you misinterpreted my post.


I think you are right and we agree to dissagree on many things. That doesn't mean either is the right way or wrong way. Right now you are not being combative and that is great.

I was doing some thinking about the posts that you've made.
It seams that when in the woods you are practicing the survival mentality. You also stated that you want to beat the woods. That is fine and I think at one point I had that same mentality. If that is the case I can see how wanting an indestructible knife is what you carry. I am also new to the WSS, and I came here to find schools that will teach me survival skills. Since joining I have learned a great deal from members here and from a school I attended. The big thing I learned is not to view the woods as an enemy that I must conquer, but to view it as a friend that has everything I need to get by. It has everything from nourishment and medicine to warmth and shelter; we just need to know where to look. With the new knowledge I have gained I found it easier for me to carry multiple tools to do certain things. My belt knife is a fixed blade approximately 4" and between 1/8th and 3/16" (Depends what I am in the mood for). If I am only hiking that is all I take unless it's winter; than I have a folding saw as well. If I staying the night, I will have my choppers or axes with me as well. This is what I feel rcomfortable with, it is not the only way and I don't preach it. One of my good friends who I hike with alot and is also a regular member here is the exact opposite. His boot knife is 6" long and almost a 1/4" think. We still get along great...

So anyway; sorry if I affended you, and like KGD said I hope you stick around. We all can and do learn from eachother no matter how different we are. Kind of what makes this place great..

 

[Steel-Junky]

So shut up already, Steel-Junky.

No... I won't. I don't think I'm outta line. Where I get accused of being defensive is where some members have have suggested that anything but a thin scandi BC is not a good wilderness knife. This is crazy talk. Just because I don't fall in line with the majority here doesn't mean I'm just gonna shut up.

 

[featherstone45]

No... I won't. I don't think I'm outta line. Where I get accused of being defensive is where some members have have suggested that anything but a thin scandi BC is not a good wilderness knife. This is crazy talk. Just because I don't fall in line with the majority here doesn't mean I'm just gonna shut up.

Steel Junky,

Can you please show me where someone said that the only good woods knife is a thin scandi and that anything other then a scandi is not a good wilderness blade? I thought I read this entire thread, but dont remember anyone saying this.

Thanks.

 

[Steel-Junky]

It is implied by saying this knife or that knife is not a good wilderness knife because they don't have the profile or construction of a thin scandi.

 

[featherstone45]

I see what your saying, but I dont remember anyone saying that???

 

[Ravaillac]

It is implied by saying this knife or that knife is not a good wilderness knife because they don't have the profile or construction of a thin scandi.

Well that's roughly the idea except the exact phrasing is not "anything else is not a good wilderness knife" but rather "the thin scandi is better than about anything else" which is a pretty outrageous opinion which actually holds water once you've tried one. That of course implying we're talking about small knife jobs.

Now the corollary opinions are generally that:
big knives can't replace an axe anyway
or
big knives aren't worth their weight, and in loads of situations a small knife is enough

Actually, the need for a large tool, and how large the tool needs to be is a lot about how much chopping you'll need. It ranges from small knife alone in the mountain (nothing to chop anyway) to full size axe... And all the in between based on situation, user's skill and habits...

 

[jiggybaw]

Bushcraft or survival?

 

[baldtaco-II]

Bushcraft or survival?

Seppuku

 

[Steel-Junky]

I see what your saying, but I dont remember anyone saying that???

Here ya go...

Its a matter of carrying the right tools for the job, and in the wilderness a Busse knife really isn't the right tool. Fillet knives, scandi "bushcrafters", machetes, axes etc. usually are the right tool, and that's why people all over the world carry them and not knives resembling Busses. They might be unbelievably strong, unbreakable or whatever, but they're not wilderness tools.

 

[Steel-Junky]

Well that's roughly the idea except the exact phrasing is not "anything else is not a good wilderness knife" but rather "the thin scandi is better than about anything else" which is a pretty outrageous opinion which actually holds water once you've tried one. That of course implying we're talking about small knife jobs.

And as far as a carving knife... I agree. But when you're talking about making shelters, snares, traps, fire prep, game cleaning, and perhaps even extreme survival events... Better is a matter of opinion. I've never stated that a Busse is a better wood carver. But to suggest that simply because it excels at wood carving that a scandi is a better wilderness knife than any other is absurd. It's better only if wood craft is a skill you consider of value... and wood craft in and of itself is not required for survival. If you're goal is to be a wood crafter in nature... then by all means you need a scandi. But for a knife that can do the tasks of survival... a Busse is an excellent tool.

Now the corollary opinions are generally that:
big knives can't replace an axe anyway

Yes and no. There are things that both do well that the other cannot. I CAN dig a hole with an axe... but it's actually easier with a large wide knife.

big knives aren't worth their weight, and in loads of situations a small knife is enough

In loads but not all. And being worth their weight is completely a matter of opinon... not a rule. You may feel just fine without one... I for one like to have one along. And no one is suggesting that a smaller fixed blade isn't essential in the woods... only that that and that alone isn't going to cover every situation. I never suggested anyone go into the woods with only a Battle Mistress.

Actually, the need for a large tool, and how large the tool needs to be is a lot about how much chopping you'll need. It ranges from small knife alone in the mountain (nothing to chop anyway) to full size axe... And all the in between based on situation, user's skill and habits...

I agree with about 99% of this.

 

[Steel-Junky]

I never said you did I am sorry if you misinterpreted my post.


I think you are right and we agree to dissagree on many things. That doesn't mean either is the right way or wrong way. Right now you are not being combative and that is great.

I was doing some thinking about the posts that you've made.
It seams that when in the woods you are practicing the survival mentality. You also stated that you want to beat the woods. That is fine and I think at one point I had that same mentality. If that is the case I can see how wanting an indestructible knife is what you carry. I am also new to the WSS, and I came here to find schools that will teach me survival skills. Since joining I have learned a great deal from members here and from a school I attended. The big thing I learned is not to view the woods as an enemy that I must conquer, but to view it as a friend that has everything I need to get by. It has everything from nourishment and medicine to warmth and shelter; we just need to know where to look. With the new knowledge I have gained I found it easier for me to carry multiple tools to do certain things. My belt knife is a fixed blade approximately 4" and between 1/8th and 3/16" (Depends what I am in the mood for). If I am only hiking that is all I take unless it's winter; than I have a folding saw as well. If I staying the night, I will have my choppers or axes with me as well. This is what I feel rcomfortable with, it is not the only way and I don't preach it. One of my good friends who I hike with alot and is also a regular member here is the exact opposite. His boot knife is 6" long and almost a 1/4" think. We still get along great...

So anyway; sorry if I affended you, and like KGD said I hope you stick around. We all can and do learn from eachother no matter how different we are. Kind of what makes this place great..

LOL, I'm not offended. And I don't take just one blade into the woods with me. I take several. Pretty much this whole thing revolves around someone stating that a Busse isn't a good wilderness knife... a statement I completely disagree with. I've never stated that the smaller scandi knives are of value nor useful. Just that they can't do it all much like a big ole Battle Mistress can't. Combine the two and you got a hateful little team I think. But I also find much utility in my Mean Street even though its much thicker than a scandi... can it carve with great detail... no... but it does all the small knife chores I require of it to suit me.

I like the comforts of my home and video games and guitar and home theater too much to want to loaf in the woods. So this is where I and a bushcrafter differ. I enjoy the challenge of making it in an environment that is unforgiving and harsh. When I go camping or hiking I will often go to places that aren't very people friendly just for the challenge... but after 4 or 5 days I'm ready for a nice warm bed and a round of halo LOL. Now when I go camping with family or friends... I always bring tons of gear so that the trip is comfortable. And that is a time when I could see carving wood and what not might be fun. But when I go off alone... taking that kind of time is a waste for me. I mean I always take food and water... but I try to see how much of it I can bring back.

 

[kgd]

Screw this for a raggedy thread. Instead of generating more heat than light why don't you all team up and conclude the thread by burying a hatchet in me.

Tempting....very tempting.... I recommend an Off-the-map outfitter modified Snow and Nealy kindling axe.

Actually, that was a very good post Baldtaco!

 

[KuRUpTD]

Lets bury the hatchet ...hahaha

 

[runningboar]

I really don't have a dog in this fight, I have never even held a busse knife, I just got back from a camping trip and was catching up and read through this thread. Then I went over to EBAY because I knew I could look at several different types of busse knives there and get an idea about price, some good looking steel BTW, the cheapest one I could find was $315.

I can have one knife, the busse, or I can have a mora, single shot 20 gauge with ammo, military surplus pack, wool blanket, poly tarp, tramotina 14" machete and a billy pot. With the money left over maybe buy some MREs or just some rice and beans for that matter.

HMMM...... lets go on a survival trip and see what works best. Chris


BTW I would love to have a Busse, if someone will give me one I would be happy to do a longterm comparison test.