What's up with cold steel testing triad locks against cheap knives?

[Poleaxe]

It is really marketing feedback, something a company needs.

Yesterday, when we went to the woods my dad used his Rajah 2 and Mini Tuff Lite for making the skewer he used to cook sausages (he won the skewer contest that day; his worked better then the ones my brother and I made).

He got both those knives from me.

The products are just fine; the company has been on the right track there.
They want to sell their products though, which is the whole reason for all the marketing they do.
They need to know what works and what doesn't.

I'm telling them that their new direction sure doesn't work with me, and it sure doesn't with some others.
What they choose to do with such info is up to them.

Ok, understood. I see what you are saying and that was a very reasonable explanation .

 

[The Whip]

I think it's amusing how many people are offering suggestions for comparison testing now that Cold Steel has begun airing these videos. It's telling that I haven't seen a single person say, "Test MY Adamas or Manix or Sebenza against one of your knives." And now we have a thread about how Cold Steel is only testing against "cheap" knives.

So how much money is Cold Steel supposed to spend buying competitors' products in order to prove that it makes the strongest, sharpest knives? How many successes are required to convince the naysayers? There will never be enough.

I don't pretend to speak for the company, but I'm certain that Cold Steel is willing to accept new-in-box knives that people would like to donate for testing. I don't foresee many offerings, though, just as I don't anticipate many companies who tout their "combat-ready" knives stepping up and shipping samples to CS for the next round of tests. Talk is cheap. Knives are not.

Thank you, Cold Steel, for putting your money where your mouth is!

-Steve

 

[mwhich50]

To me these tests are like comparing apples with oranges. If you compare Cold Steel with Emerson, IMO, now you're getting warmer. Cold Steel does have the strongest backlocks, but there is a tradeoff. Cold Steel also has stiff backlocks, and more difficult deployment and closure. I presently own 14 triad lock knives, so I can speak on this subject. The "other guys" have smoother, faster deploying knives. Comfort, aesthetics, and user enjoyment are at least as important as safety and strength. I don't push the limitations of my knives. I prefer machetes, saws, hatchets and screwdrivers for hard use duties.

 

[DngrRuss1]

I find it amusing that some posts on this, and similar threads make statements like, "lock strength is not important if you know how to properly use a knife." This is akin to saying, "seat belts are not important if you know how to properly drive a car."

Unforeseen circumstances happen, and I for one am glad that, if I have a razor sharp object near my fingers during such a circumstance, it is as safe and reliable as possible. Not only that, but a safe and reliable as advertised by the manufacturer.

As for the comparative advertising, it is so common I think you would be hard pressed to make it through a day without coming across some. The basic premiss is to impress upon the customer that they will get more for their money if they buy from brand X than brand Y. I was at a grocery store earlier today, and they had big signs advertising their prices and quality against other store chains by name. No one in the store walked out saying they would never shop there again because the store compared themselves against another store. They just bought their goods and left. Getting butt-hurt by this type of marketing is just a bit silly, in my opinion.

 

[B.F.U]

To me these tests are like comparing apples with oranges. If you compare Cold Steel with Emerson, IMO, now you're getting warmer. Cold Steel does have the strongest backlocks, but there is a tradeoff. Cold Steel also has stiff backlocks, and more difficult deployment and closure. I presently own 14 triad lock knives, so I can speak on this subject. The "other guys" have smoother, faster deploying knives. Comfort, aesthetics, and user enjoyment are at least as important as safety and strength. I don't push the limitations of my knives. I prefer machetes, saws, hatchets and screwdrivers for hard use duties.

OOOH! Wouldn't that open a can of fanboy worms?! I would love to see such a comparison.

I find it amusing that some posts on this, and similar threads make statements like, "lock strength is not important if you know how to properly use a knife." This is akin to saying, "seat belts are not important if you know how to properly drive a car."

Unforeseen circumstances happen, and I for one am glad that, if I have a razor sharp object near my fingers during such a circumstance, it is as safe and reliable as possible. Not only that, but a safe and reliable as advertised by the manufacturer.

As for the comparative advertising, it is so common I think you would be hard pressed to make it through a day without coming across some. The basic premiss is to impress upon the customer that they will get more for their money if they buy from brand X than brand Y. I was at a grocery store earlier today, and they had big signs advertising their prices and quality against other store chains by name. No one in the store walked out saying they would never shop there again because the store compared themselves against another store. They just bought their goods and left. Getting butt-hurt by this type of marketing is just a bit silly, in my opinion.

My thoughts as well, on the automatic jump to "lock strength is not important".

 

[wacbzz]

Cold Steel also has stiff backlocks, and more difficult deployment and closure. I presently own 14 triad lock knives, so I can speak on this subject. The "other guys" have smoother, faster deploying knives.

This is interesting. For the record, I have zero triad lock knives, so I'm asking this question out of no personal knowledge...I have seen no video of CS knives with triad locks where the person using the knife has a difficult time opening or difficult time closing the knife. In fact, the videos that I have seen show just the exact opposite; the knives open quickly and there is never a problem closing them.

Could you post a video showing how difficult it is to open and close your CS triad lock knives please?

 

[B.F.U]

This is interesting. For the record, I have zero triad lock knives, so I'm asking this question out of no personal knowledge...I have seen no video of CS knives with triad locks where the person using the knife has a difficult time opening or difficult time closing the knife. In fact, the videos that I have seen show just the exact opposite; the knives open quickly and there is never a problem closing them.

Could you post a video showing how difficult it is to open and close your CS triad lock knives please?

They have stronger springs for the back lock, causing more friction while opening, and the lock has to be depressed farther to unlock. That's all.

 

[mwhich50]

The last 3-4 posters need to try to be more honest when they quote members. Don't exaggerate or use ridiculous analogies to help support your opinion.

NOBODY EVER said in ANY thread (that I have seen) that "lock strength was not important". Some believe that being able to suspend 300lb from their knife is irrelevant for it's INTENDED use. People have been safely using slip joints for many centuries. I don't mind when Cold Steel tests/tortures their own products. I don't mind when regular users/ knife nuts conduct torture test or compare brands.

Actually, I am an unapologetic Cold Steel supporter. I have been supportive on BF and Youtube. I just spoke about my observations concerning the characteristics of the triad lock. I have over 30 of their products in my possession. My only serious objection was Cold Steel destroying other manufactures knives in their testing shop.

I said MORE difficult deployment and closure. This is common knowledge among Cold Steel owners. It becomes really obvious when I am wiping down my 90 or so folders every quarter. The Holdout series is particularly stiff. There are a few BF threads in which people inquire how they can loosen the triad lock spring tension of their knives. There are also Youtube videos that show the triad temporarily jamming when being closed, if the backlock is not fully depressed. Of course this improves over time.

 

[whp]

I find it amusing that some posts on this, and similar threads make statements like, "lock strength is not important if you know how to properly use a knife." This is akin to saying, "seat belts are not important if you know how to properly drive a car."

Unforeseen circumstances happen, and I for one am glad that, if I have a razor sharp object near my fingers during such a circumstance, it is as safe and reliable as possible. Not only that, but a safe and reliable as advertised by the manufacturer.

As for the comparative advertising, it is so common I think you would be hard pressed to make it through a day without coming across some. The basic premiss is to impress upon the customer that they will get more for their money if they buy from brand X than brand Y. I was at a grocery store earlier today, and they had big signs advertising their prices and quality against other store chains by name. No one in the store walked out saying they would never shop there again because the store compared themselves against another store. They just bought their goods and left. Getting butt-hurt by this type of marketing is just a bit silly, in my opinion.

All true.

 

[asdf12345]

The last 3-4 posters need to try to be more honest when they quote members. Don't exaggerate or use ridiculous analogies to help support your opinion.

NOBODY EVER said in ANY thread (that I have seen) that "lock strength was not important". Some believe that being able to suspend a 300lb weight from their knife is irrelevant for it's INTENDED use. People have been safely using slip joints for many centuries. I don't mind when Cold Steel tests/tortures their own products. I don't mind when regular users/ knife nuts conduct torture test or compare brands.

I am an unapologetic Cold Steel supporter actually. I have been supportive on BF and Youtube. I just spoke about my observations concerning the characteristics of the triad lock. I have over 30 of their products in my possession. My only objection was Cold Steel destroying other manufactures knives in their testing shop.

I said MORE difficult deployment and closure. This is common knowledge among Cold Steel owners. It becomes really obvious when I am wiping down my 90 or so folders every quarter. The Holdout series is particularly stiff. There are a few BF threads in which people inquire how they can loosen the triad lock spring tension of their knives. There are also Youtube videos that show the triad temporarily jamming when being closed. Of course this improves over time.

The issue arises when you make compromises in comfort, weight, size and price for supposed added strength.

If you're of the mindset that you want to purchase a folder for hard use & abuse, then yes, lock strength matters. If you need a knife to do odds & ends (like I personally do) then lock strength is not as big an issue.

Tests that are indeed irrelevant to light use pocket knives can be relevant to the sort of abuse that a particular user might have in mind. Yes, you can use the right tool for the job for prying open crates, for example, which is a 3 pound crowbar. But maybe you want a portable 6-8 ounce folder folder that happens to be capable of that and can ride in a pocket. Not everyone needs or wants that, and I certainly don't, but for those who do it is a valid concern as they are interested in knowing exactly what the tool is capable of. Punching through metal, rapid chopping on wood, and prying put forces on a blade and a lock mechanism that "torture" tests attempt to emulate.

So to compare two knives - both of which weigh more, cost more, have a thicker blade, and are larger and more bulky - for their hard use capabilities is only putting to the test the supposed added strength that those compromises are in favor of. If I',m in the market for a hard use folder, and I know I'm going to spend extra for a heavier knife that doesn't slice as well as a thinly ground slipjoint, I want to know how my options compare.

 

[AntonioAhumada]

The issue arises when you make compromises in comfort, weight, size and price for supposed added strength.

If you're of the mindset that you want to purchase a folder for hard use & abuse, then yes, lock strength matters. If you need a knife to do odds & ends (like I personally do) then lock strength is not as big an issue.

Tests that are indeed irrelevant to light use pocket knives can be relevant to the sort of abuse that a particular user might have in mind. Yes, you can use the right tool for the job for prying open crates, for example, which is a 3 pound crowbar. But maybe you want a portable 6-8 ounce folder folder that happens to be capable of that and can ride in a pocket. Not everyone needs or wants that, and I certainly don't, but for those who do it is a valid concern as they are interested in knowing exactly what the tool is capable of. Punching through metal, rapid chopping on wood, and prying put forces on a blade and a lock mechanism that "torture" tests attempt to emulate.

So to compare two knives - both of which weigh more, cost more, have a thicker blade, and are larger and more bulky - for their hard use capabilities is only putting to the test the supposed added strength that those compromises are in favor of. If I',m in the market for a hard use folder, and I know I'm going to spend extra for a heavier knife that doesn't slice as well as a thinly ground slipjoint, I want to know how my options compare.

there is no compromise in weight, size and comfort whatsoever. What C.S. Knives in particular are you referring to? Have you ever handed/seen a Code 4? Those are beautiful, elegant, light, comfortable and easy to deploy and close, still those are strong as hell. There are several Cold steel folders ranging anywhere from the micro recon to the XL Espada. Some are smooth, some others are gargantuan in proportions, but still those are some serious cutting platforms. I have an Endura4 from Spyderco which I really love, but the C4 is just as well made and even more. Lock strength is not relevant if you want your folder for EDC , but if you carry a folder for " tactical " purposes you better get yourself a C.S.

 

[AntonioAhumada]

Just imagine something like this ( a worst possible scenario) " I have been deployed behind the enemy lines to accomplish an urban warfare mission. We entered a designed building when we got caught under heavy hostile fire, we retreat to the reunion point through the besieged building, when I came to realize that I have no ammo left, not even for my side arm. All of a sudden a Tango comes from 12:00 but I am confident and cool because I have my trusty " military" folder by my side. I open it and the smooth click alerts the boogie who is got by surprise, he has no weapon and I'm about to perform on him the ole " slash and stab " routine, when all of the sudden he produces a huge stick and whacks my dominant hand with it. Both my training and reflexes make me retract the compromised hand and the stick whacks the spine of my beautiful knife and destroys the lock , shit I must resort now to my hand to hand melee / Bruce Lee training " .. Just imagining something like this gives me the creeps. I would rather issued the boy with a CS recon 1. Seriously.

 

[crom]

I'm on my 4th Triad lock knife and none of them have been difficult to unlock and all have been very smooth. True the lock has to be pressed further but that's peace of mind IMO.

 

[DocT]

I have a few Triad lock knives and none of them is hard to open. In fact, I only have one knife of any lock type (I have a lot) that is smoother than my Mini Recon 1 Clip Point, and that is a Lone Wolf Mini Landslide. My Mini Recon 1 is so smooth my wife, with her messed up hand, can open it with ease, but cannot one hand open other knives. It is really sweet. When I first got the Mini Recon 1 I had to open and close it a number of times to work the new out of it. Since then it only gets better.

 

[Relayer]

I own no Cold Steel products, but I'm on the verge of buying an AUS8 Recon 1. I appreciate the tests Demko is doing and I find nothing about him "smug", nor the tests "disrespectful" (are you kidding me?) to any other manufacturer. I enjoy watching them and I hope he does more. Keep up the good work!

 

[mwhich50]

I have a few Triad lock knives and none of them is hard to open. In fact, I only have one knife of any lock type (I have a lot) that is smoother than my Mini Recon 1 Clip Point, and that is a Lone Wolf Mini Landslide. My Mini Recon 1 is so smooth my wife, with her messed up hand, can open it with ease, but cannot one hand open other knives. It is really sweet. When I first got the Mini Recon 1 I had to open and close it a number of times to work the new out of it. Since then it only gets better.

Did it come that way from the factory, or has it been broken in by use? I have a few that have gotten pretty smooth from use. My American Lawmen was great after lots of break-in. My Mini Recon 1 clip point takes a good flick of the wrist to open, and the back lock is pretty stiff compared to ALL of my other lockbacks. The only non-Cold Steel that is as stiff is a buck 110 that I have never used. Just now, I was just comparing the MiniR1 with about 6 backlock Spydies that I have, and I noticed that when I depress the Spydies backlock, I use the pad of my thumb. When I close my Triad locks I automatically (muscle memory) shift to the calloused inside (medial) of my thumb so I can exert more pressure , if needed. Interesting.
BTW, I think the Mini Recon 1 is a GREAT little knife. If it, and the American Lawman had stonewashed blades they might be my favorite Cold Steel EDCs.

 

[pbcg]

Yes we will be testing more, adamas, compression, everything.

Sounds good.

Really looking forward to it!

 

[Velitrius]

Just imagine something like this ( a worst possible scenario) " I have been deployed behind the enemy lines to accomplish an urban warfare mission. We entered a designed building when we got caught under heavy hostile fire, we retreat to the reunion point through the besieged building, when I came to realize that I have no ammo left, not even for my side arm. All of a sudden a Tango comes from 12:00 but I am confident and cool because I have my trusty " military" folder by my side. I open it and the smooth click alerts the boogie who is got by surprise, he has no weapon and I'm about to perform on him the ole " slash and stab " routine, when all of the sudden he produces a huge stick and whacks my dominant hand with it. Both my training and reflexes make me retract the compromised hand and the stick whacks the spine of my beautiful knife and destroys the lock , shit I must resort now to my hand to hand melee / Bruce Lee training " .. Just imagining something like this gives me the creeps. I would rather issued the boy with a CS recon 1. Seriously.

Man, I laughed out loud at that. Especially after I saw that the post ended in "Seriously."

You gotta love the video gamers on here nowadays. Don't worry Antonio, you'll Re-Spawn in an minute, and you can get your payback on that "boogie" who smacked ya. Hey, if you want to choose your folder based on the possibility that you may be Shanghai'd into an overseas urban warfare mission, be my guest. But there are those of us out here who don't expect a stick wielding Tango from 12:00 any time soon.

Cold Steel has been doing this stuff forever, it's kinda their "thing". Pile a bunch of weights on a knife lock, cut up a combat boot full of pork chops, and have a guy stand on a folder that's jammed into a tree trunk... hey, you just convinced a bunch of folks to buy your knife. Want to test your stuff against the "competition"? Fine, all's fair in love and war, and it's done every day:

"...With twice the towing capacity of any other truck in its class..."

"... switched and saved over $500 with our insurance company..."

"...but bring your VISA card, because Dave's Heli-Skiing doesn't take American Express..." TV's full of this stuff. Cold Steel's just joining in the fun.

Do people hang their hats on tests versus the competition? I don't know, but whatever Cold Steel is doing, they seem to sell a bunch of knives. Heck, this thread even has a few folks that are going to buy more, now that they've seen the videos.

Are some folks put off by the side-show-esque showmanship? Apparently so, since there are folks that clearly disagree with the testing method. It ain't my thing, but I'm not going to pass on a knife that I feel is well designed and executed just because the boys over at Cold Steel blew up a PM2. Matter of fact, I haven't been swayed by any company's advertising in either direction.

Hey, you like where Cold Steel is going? Buy their knives. You don't appreciate their marketing tactics? Hey, then don't buy their stuff. Welcome to the free market economy. Instead of bashing each other for our opinions though, we should be thanking our lucky stars that we have such choices in our fetish for sharp, portable stuff. I personally gotta hand it to Demko and Crew for at least staying in the game and giving us another batch of products from which to choose.

 

[Noswad0208]

I wasn't sold on Cold Steel before, but now with them acting like a bunch of 6 year olds who want to "prove" (funny, Cold Steel testing Cold Steel knives against other brands.. hmm.) they're better than everyone else, I'm way less more likely to ever buy one.

 

[DShiflet]

(funny, Cold Steel testing Cold Steel knives against other brands.. hmm.) they're better than everyone else, I'm way less more likely to ever buy one.

Nothing funny about it, you can see the tests plain as day. Are you gonna throw out some kinda conspiracy theory about how CS is getting fake copies of the knives they are testing against?