What's with the CR Sebenza?

This whole $200 is okay, but not $400 reminds me of something someone said to me once:

"Do you know how to price something?
If you tell them the price, and they reach for their wallet, the price is too low.
If you tell them the price, and they grunt and walk away, the price is too high.
But if you tell them the price, and they grunt and *then* pull out their wallet, the price is just right."

I actually think Chris Reeve hit this one on the nail. Yes, it's expensive at $400, but it's not like he's sitting on a huge stock of them and selling them to dealers at a discount. So he must be making just enough to fill the orders, in which case the price is probably just right, as far as the market is concerned. If he'd make them for $200, he wouldn't be able to fill in the orders and the quality might suffer, and at $600 you go into a customs zone where you can have someone else make something to your exact specs.

Oh, and no, I didn't send the Millie to Spyderco, mostly because I did some "customization" on it. I sheared the clip off at work (squeezing between stuff in a warehouse and the clip caught but I kept moving), so I took 3 larget screws, drilled larger holes in G10 and liner, and put the clip back on. It's held so far... :) But I know they don't like modified stuff sent back, so I'm using the heck out of it until I kill the handle, and then maybe I'll mount the blade in some exotic hardwood (I got a nice chunk of ironwood burl) and use it some more. I did send a Native to them which developed a lot of vertical blade play, so they replaced an older Gin-1 Native with a brand new S30V one, and they did a wonderful job on removing a rust spot on a Civilan tip.
 
supply and demand...the demand for $400 sebenzas is great, so Chris Reeve's supplies us with them, lol...If it was really too expensive for what it was, then they would not sell like they do...
 
CutelryLover, there were alot of good posts, but I give the edge to your post #50. It takes the cake. Thanks. :D

No, I don;t think I;'m going to go out and buy one right away...if ever. I know quality when I see it and I know how much quality I need. But there were several things listed in these posts that I missed when examining that Sebenza, and that's why I asked. Very good. I have a newfound respect for Chris Reeve's work............and I'll be looking even closer next time I get one in-hand. Maybe picking up a used one is something I might look for sometime.....or maybe a new one someday. Who knows? (Stretch's wife! That's who!) ((( :D )))
 
"Do you know how to price something?
If you tell them the price, and they reach for their wallet, the price is too low.
If you tell them the price, and they grunt and walk away, the price is too high.
But if you tell them the price, and they grunt and *then* pull out their wallet, the price is just right."
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What do you think if 1/3 of the customers reach for their wallet, 1/3 of the customers grunt and walk away, and 1/3 of the customers grunt and then pull out their wallet?

And that doesn't account for how many do as I did, grunt and reach for their wallet only to later sell for a lower price later.

Yes, it's expensive at $400, but it's not like he's sitting on a huge stock of them and selling them to dealers at a discount. So he must be making just enough to fill the orders, in which case the price is probably just right, as far as the market is concerned.
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It's not really a matter of "supply and demand".
After all, there really is no limit to the supply....it's an artificial restriction.
In other words, CR can limit or increase the supply as determined by his orders.
I'm sure that if he ramped up his production and expanded his business to triple his production, prices would fall or he would have a huge unsold surplus on his hands.
 
StretchNM said:
CutelryLover, there were alot of good posts, but I give the edge to your post #50. It takes the cake. Thanks. :D

No, I don;t think I;'m going to go out and buy one right away...if ever. I know quality when I see it and I know how much quality I need. But there were several things listed in these posts that I missed when examining that Sebenza, and that's why I asked. Very good. I have a newfound respect for Chris Reeve's work............and I'll be looking even closer next time I get one in-hand. Maybe picking up a used one is something I might look for sometime.....or maybe a new one someday. Who knows? (Stretch's wife! That's who!)
Click to expand...


Thanks...I don't want to praise the sebenza like its the best knife ever, it is no such thign, each person wants and needs different thigns in a knife, depending on what they will use it for...Its just that the sebenza is a great general purpose folder...Its hard to really understand it without using one for yourself...To hold it in your hand is one thing, but to carry it daily and use it all the time is the next step...I respect your original question as a question...some people just post their opinion about it without owning one, but you had an honest question to ask...Alot of people love the sebenza but that does not make it the right knife for everyone, thats why I won't say the best...just very nice, thats all...:D

Whats so great about it is even though its expensive it retains its value, so if you wanted to try it out and didn't like it for some reason you could always trade it off or sell it easily...
 
You will find a lot of people that have purchased a Sebbie and feel the need to reaffirm their decision. Many realize that they paid $365 for a $180 knife and have to, after the fact, justify that to themselves. They are a very well made $200 knife that the maker is able to charge near twice that much for, the market place rules.

Yes I am one of the buyers I speak of.
 
allenC said:
It's not really a matter of "supply and demand".
Click to expand...

I think about it a bit differently...Perhaps he just can't make them fast enough and still have the level of attention to detail as he does...or maybe he can, but he is smart enough to realize that if he keeps the demand high and supply low enough than the prices can stay higher...If there were 5 times as many sebenzas than the demand might not be as great? or the prices might have to drop to sell them all...Who knows...I like to think he just can't make them fast enough to keep up with the demand...I mean they use to be custom made... but now they are considered production knives to keep because a CNC machine makes parts...He needed to use one to keep up with the demand...
 
jvan said:
You will find a lot of people that have purchased a Sebbie and feel the need to reaffirm their decision. Many realize that they paid $365 for a $180 knife and have to, after the fact, justify that to themselves. They are a very well made $200 knife that the maker is able to charge near twice that much for, the market place rules.

Yes I am one of the buyers I speak of.
Click to expand...


but who has the right to say its a $200 knife? I would think the maker of the knives sets the prices accordingly...Do you think he thinks they are $200 knives? If so is he just money hungry and wants twice the profit? Or does he set the price taking into consideration actual cost, cost for his time, and overall quality...

Think of it this way, when you go to get your brakes done do you argue with the mechanic that he does not deserve the $80 an hour he makes? Or do you honestly feel he deserves the money he gets for his time? Only difference here is that you don't have to buy knives, but you HAVE to get work done on your vehicles...lol...So at least you have a choice with the knives...

But my original point here is what people think something is worth is a matter of opinion, and the only persons opinion that matters is the person seling the product...

My grandfather use to say things are worth what people are willing to pay for them, case and point...If a sebenza is only worth $200 then why do they still get $300 - $500 on ebay? Being that its an acution most of the time the price is set by the people bidding...if the people think its only worth $200 then why do the bids still increase after they reach that amount?
 
the seller never sets the sale price, the transaction is dependent on the buyer's willingness to pay.

I bet someone would pay $1000 for a sebbie, and I personally wouldn't give $100 because it's a framelock (I seriously don't care about the build quality, so save your keystrokes). It's a demand curve, and equilibrium is set by several factors. Anyone can say the seb is too cheap or too expensive, and be absolutely correct for their own estimation. Who knows what the turnover rate is on the knife, or how it compares to others. Does anyone have any idea how much money CRK is making?
 
... but now they are considered production knives to keep because a CNC machine makes parts...He needed to use one to keep up with the demand...
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Custom made means a one-of-a-kind knife that is not the same as ANY other knife.
If I order a custom made knife, you should not be able to buy the same knife that I have.
Sebenza's are not custom made in my opinion.

But my original point here is what people think something is worth is a matter of opinion, and the only persons opinion that matters is the person seling the product...
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So, you would agree that this Cold Steel folder is worth $500.00 dollars???
http://www.coldsteel.com/60st.html
 
allenC said:
Sebenza's are not custom made in my opinion.
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Again, your opinion, not fact, sebenzas use to be custom made, meaning all of the parts were made by hand, does not matter than the same style knife was made more than once...your defanition of custom is not the same as mine...


allenC said:
So, you would agree that this Cold Steel folder is worth $500.00 dollars???
http://www.coldsteel.com/60st.html
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to many people, yes, thats why they sell...To me...no, :rolleyes:...There are many other thgins I would like to do with $500...
 
allenC said:
Custom made means a one-of-a-kind knife
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Where can I find that definition?

This is the definition of custom from dictionary.com...

Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source - Share This
cus·tom /ˈkʌstəm/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[kuhs-tuhm] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun 1. a habitual practice; the usual way of acting in given circumstances.
2. habits or usages collectively; convention.
3. a practice so long established that it has the force of law.
4. such practices collectively.
5. Sociology. a group pattern of habitual activity usually transmitted from one generation to another.
6. toll; duty.
7. customs, a. (used with a singular or plural verb) duties imposed by law on imported or, less commonly, exported goods.
b. (used with a singular verb) the government department that collects these duties.
c. (used with a singular verb) the section of an airport, station, etc., where baggage is checked for contraband and for goods subject to duty.

8. regular patronage of a particular shop, restaurant, etc.
9. the customers or patrons of a business firm, collectively.
10. the aggregate of customers.
11. (in medieval Europe) a customary tax, tribute, or service owed by peasants to their lord.
–adjective 12. made specially for individual customers: custom shoes.
13. dealing in things so made, or doing work to order: a custom tailor.
 
Seeing as we went from royalty to recycling in this thread, I went back to the original post.

Holding the small regular Sebenza and the Mini-Skirmish side by side, right now, in this very room, I will say a few things, about how I feel about both knives.

MS (Mini Skirmish) is larger and heavier than Sebbie. Front scale and back scale on my MS are of different thickness (front being thinner). The spine of the scales on Sebbie has lengthwise grooves, but the spine of the scales of MS are slick without any grooves. Sebenza has almost no light showing between the blade and scales, by comparison MS has a lot of free space between blade and scales. The finish on the scales is very fine on MS, fine but more grippy on Sebbie, making Sebbie safer when wet compared to MS. Pins are thinner on MS than on Sebbie.

The finish on Sebbie is stonewash, very fine, and hides scratches well. The finish on MS blade is satin finish, with clear grind lines. Take a piece of paper and run the corner lighly along the blade, Sebbie makes a SHHHHHH, MS makes a SZK SZK SZK as the paper goes up a grind line, falls, goes up a grind line, falls. The corners of the blade spine on MS are sharp, the corners of the blade spine on Sebbie are nicely rounded.

Sebbie has a thicker clip, MS has thinner clip. MS clip holds in one place, Sebbie clip has a dent that helps minimize sliding around.

Lock on Sebbie is a straight line, with 2 cutouts for flex. MS has one cutout, but much deeper and wider, as well as a ball bearing to help keep the blade closed. The lock on SM feels weak, there's too much metal removed from the root of the locking bar, compared to two shallower cutouts on Sebbie, so it flexes out of the way with a lot less effort. I might even be able to break it off if I can get my thumb solidly hooked in there, as is, I can flex the locking bar easily an entire thickness worth past the handle scale, but I cannot do that with a Sebbie with a lot more force. On the Sebbie, the cutouts are much more shallow, so breaking is not an option. Pocket clip also acts the same way a Hinderer lockbar stabilizer on Strider folders does, it won't let you bend the locking bar too far out, because you're fighting the bar AND you're fighting a clip pushing the other way. It'll open fine, but if you push anymore, the clip joins in and stops you dead. Easier to flex with clip removed, but still nowhere close to MS.

The handle ergonomics are uncomfortable on SM, my index rests in the groove, and the lockbar in engaged position makes it uncomfortable for me to bring any forward pressure, because my index is resting on the lock bar and not on the front scale at all. Sebbie feels comfortable, because the locking bar has less space, and the lock doesn't have small teeth on it.

Disassembly of Sebbie took 40 seconds, add 20 to untie the lanyard, and required one hex key, included with the knife. SM lacks the lanyard hole. SM disassembly took 1 min, 29 secs with a pair of screwdrivers ready and provided by me.

Conclusion:

The lock on Mini Skirmish is probably its weakest point, it should be possible to break it for a strong man using his bare hands (wearing gloves). In terms of fit and finish, MS has lots of unnecessary space between blade and scales, and the handle is a little slicker compared to the grippier bead blasting on the Sebenza.

Overall, more attention to small details has been paid on the Sebenza.

There. That's as much of a review as I can give. Are the points I listed worth the extra money or not is an individual decision. Personally I considered the Sebbie price as "a little something extra" for the attention to detail and precision fitting parts and ease of disassembly. After playing with MS for the last 20 mins, I would not recommend this knife, because in my opinion the lock is far too flimsy. Either it's a heavy user, in which case lock has to be strengthened, or it's a medium-light user, in which case the blade thickness is overkill. Oddly enough, full-size large Skirmish has a very solid lock, with plenty of material left after the cutout, perhaps the Mini-Skirmish was just scaled and the weakness of the lock overlooked, or it's also possible my Mini-Skirmish is defective.
 
Thanks Vess for the quick updated comparison...I can't speak for the skirmish because I do not own one...But I am not trying to compare the 2, just trying to figure out what people are trying to say about the sebenza and why...
 
A couple of years ago I bought a Large Classic Sebenza with a basketweave damascus blade. One side had a fancy graphic pattern. I loved the knive except for the graphic design. I bought the knife mostly for the damascus blade.

Early this year I called CRK and they sold me a new, plain side plate. I removed the plate with the graphic design and put the new plain one on. It fit like a glove. So, I like the idea that Sebenzas are machine made and could so easily make a major change to my Sebenza.
 
I've asked this before but since this thread is getting a fair amount of attention from actual users I will ask again.

Suppose someone is interested in actually getting a Sebbie for the first time, maybe as the one and only shot in this lifetime. Large or small, that's probably mostly an individual reaction depending on your one out of six billion plus uniquely sized and shaped hands, not to mention brain lobes.

But what about regular versus classic? Is this like Coca-Cola, a matter of personal taste, or are there identifiable differences in actual usage? For those fortunates who can afford both, what difference in real world use does it make whether you have the old classic original blade shape or the supposedly new and improved regular model.

Classic or regular, which one would you take to the desert island? Which one goes into your pocket on the way to work at the warehouse? Which one would you like in your pocket on the way home from church or a movie? Which one goes into your bug out bag? And if you know why, that would be helpful. Thanks.

:cool:
 
i think its more of a status with the chris reeve than actual quality issue.....i mean i know that the sebenza won't do anymore than a 10$ steel warrior i carry frequently, but some people can't accept this truth and explore the other end of the knife spectrum... nothing wrong with that, because everyone on here likes knives, and many like nice knives.....i mean doesn't every hobby start at like 30$ then you end up spending 400$ once your hooked.......but is the sebbie better, in some ways, would you put it through the same things i put my knives through, i doubt it....and for that fact a sebbie is not in my near future
 
tricker said:
would you put it through the same things i put my knives through, i doubt it....
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Well I can't claim to know what you do with your knives, but I will do anything with my sebbie that I would do with any knife that had any real value. A plastic handled $10 Buck, or a $400 sebbie, I respect both, and use them for their intended purposes.
Now if you would do something like prying a door open, or attempting to stab an armored car, then I would do that with neither knife, but get the tool for the job. I am not rich enough to buy an expensive knife, and not use it.
Steven
 
salty141 said:
Well I can't claim to know what you do with your knives, but I will do anything with my sebbie that I would do with any knife that had any real value. A plastic handled $10 Buck, or a $400 sebbie, I respect both, and use them for their intended purposes..
Steven
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most over people i have been around with more expensive knives seem afraid to use them, again this is most.....example, i was doing some improvising and had to cut an aluminum can in half, my buddy of course cringed when he pulled out his William Henry, so it was my spyderco endura to the rescue
 
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