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The BladeForums.com 2024 Traditional Knife is ready to order! See this thread for details: https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/bladeforums-2024-traditional-knife.2003187/
Price is$300$250 ea (shipped within CONUS). If you live outside the US, I will contact you after your order for extra shipping charges.
Order here: https://www.bladeforums.com/help/2024-traditional/ - Order as many as you like, we have plenty.
Wheeler's Steel * Stuck in the metal with you
- Thread starter Lorien
- Start date
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Oops! I said, "a slightly worn 120 grit belt" but I meant to say 320 grit. 
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- Dec 14, 2010
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Eh, 120, 320, whats a hundred grit. J/K Great thread. Thanks again for doing all the work to get it up here for us to see. You too Lorien!!
That wood is nice looking stuff. What is it?
That wood is nice looking stuff. What is it?
- Joined
- Dec 3, 1999
- Messages
- 9,437
I've got 50 more photos edited and ready to send to Lorien... but it's past my bed-time. I have to get up early and take Shadow to the vet (he won't have any chance of being a daddy after tomorrow 
). So I'll try to send Lorien the photos after I get back.
Here's another quick video just for kicks. I'm practicing for my big acting debut. :foot: 
BTW- I wasn't out of breath or trying to sound like Darth Vader, I was talking through a dust mask. LMAO
[youtube]ETNJvwWuSU0[/youtube]
). So I'll try to send Lorien the photos after I get back.Here's another quick video just for kicks. I'm practicing for my big acting debut.
:foot: BTW- I wasn't out of breath or trying to sound like Darth Vader, I was talking through a dust mask. LMAO[youtube]ETNJvwWuSU0[/youtube]
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This is just a still shot of what I was doing in the video, but for the sake of consistency I want to keep up with the sequential photos;
For me, the best way to get the distinct radius in the handle to guard transition is to file it in;
Filed in;
Here's a handful of the "sanding sticks" I use while hand sanding a handle as part of the final finishing process;
Getting started with hand sanding on the handle with 320 grit paper. I suppose it would be possible to go right to the buffer with the finish the handle currently has--- but it would require some pretty aggressive buffing. Starting out like this, I can make sure that everything truly is symmetrical and that there are no little inconsistencies that I may have left with the machines. When I'm done hand sanding, the buffing process is VERY QUICK and won't wash out the wood;
With all those little gadgets and gizmoes for handle work, this is still the one I use the most. It's essentially a rubber finger that I made for this back when I was 17, after meeting custom maker Tiny Spencer. There's just something about the shape and durometer of the rubber that makes it work really well;
Using that same rubber stick with 320 grit paper;
Sanding the butt end of the handle with 320 grit and a rigid backing;
This is the soft faced sanding block I use AFTER the rigid block. The rigid block makes sure it's flat and smooth. The soft one makes sure it has a nice finish with a nice "corner" around the end;
When most guys learn about the "shoe shine" sanding technique they'll go nuts with it--- just sanding all over hell and gone that way. At least I did. The technique is pretty much explained with its name. The problem is that it's easy to wash out defined shapes, and also get humps and lumps over pins, in handle to guard transitions, etc. So I use this technique VERY sparingly... and with fine paper. I don't do it enough to justify buying expensive fine grit shop rolls, so I make something that works very well. I slap a piece of duct tape on the back of some 600 grit (or finer if need be) sand paper, then cut it into strips. A standard width duct tape is wide enough for 3 or 4 strips;
For me, the best way to get the distinct radius in the handle to guard transition is to file it in;
Filed in;
Here's a handful of the "sanding sticks" I use while hand sanding a handle as part of the final finishing process;
Getting started with hand sanding on the handle with 320 grit paper. I suppose it would be possible to go right to the buffer with the finish the handle currently has--- but it would require some pretty aggressive buffing. Starting out like this, I can make sure that everything truly is symmetrical and that there are no little inconsistencies that I may have left with the machines. When I'm done hand sanding, the buffing process is VERY QUICK and won't wash out the wood;
With all those little gadgets and gizmoes for handle work, this is still the one I use the most. It's essentially a rubber finger that I made for this back when I was 17, after meeting custom maker Tiny Spencer. There's just something about the shape and durometer of the rubber that makes it work really well;
Using that same rubber stick with 320 grit paper;
Sanding the butt end of the handle with 320 grit and a rigid backing;
This is the soft faced sanding block I use AFTER the rigid block. The rigid block makes sure it's flat and smooth. The soft one makes sure it has a nice finish with a nice "corner" around the end;
When most guys learn about the "shoe shine" sanding technique they'll go nuts with it--- just sanding all over hell and gone that way. At least I did. The technique is pretty much explained with its name. The problem is that it's easy to wash out defined shapes, and also get humps and lumps over pins, in handle to guard transitions, etc. So I use this technique VERY sparingly... and with fine paper. I don't do it enough to justify buying expensive fine grit shop rolls, so I make something that works very well. I slap a piece of duct tape on the back of some 600 grit (or finer if need be) sand paper, then cut it into strips. A standard width duct tape is wide enough for 3 or 4 strips;
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Sanding with the "shoe shine" technique and the 600X/duct tape combo;
Sanding the "flats" of the handle with 600 grit paper and a steel backing bar (just what I was doing in the last video);
Close up of same.... gotta get the guard sanded out as well!
Sanding the inside curve of the finger guard with some roundstock and 320 grit paper. I did the main clean-up of this transition by floating the J-flex belt into the junction... but I never can get the guard cleaned up quite right, so this is required. I don't want to mess up the junction, so I try to mostly just sand the steel guard. It's like sanding 90% guard, with 10% onto the junction. If you don't sand the junction AT ALL, then you'll get a noticeable lip there;
Same thing, different shot;
Once I get the steel smoothed out with 320 grit paper, I move to 600X, then 1200X. For the 1200X, I use this smaller piece of round stock with a piece of hard rubber tubing pressed over it;
At this point the entire handle, guard and all... has been HAND sanded to 1200 grit paper. I smear some Tru-Oil (a gun-stock finish) on the wood and do some more sanding with 1200X and a sanding stick that has a soft rubber face. This is stabilized Koa so this step is not a necessity, but it helps to ensure there are no funky open "pores" and that the wood will buff out nicely;
Sanding with the finishing oil. I will sand until the dust and oil build up a slurry, and then keep sanding. Almost all of the oil will penetrate into the wood and also be deposited onto the sand paper. After that I rub the handle down with a piece of flannel, then set it aside for a bit to make sure the oil won't be gummy when I go to the buffer;
Buffing needs to be QUICK. I used to think you could buff the crud out of something... and you can... but it will look like CRUD! IF care was taken up to this point with the hand sanding, then the buffing will literally take seconds. I didn't spend an entire minute with this spiral sewn buffing wheel and white rouge;
I decided to mirror polish the inside curve of this guard. I've only done it on one other knife, Roger P's fighter... but I really liked it as it adds an interesting bit of contrast to the satin finished sides of the guard. I taped the handle off because I don't want to get green buffing compound on the wood, and the green compound works VERY well for getting the mirror polish I want;
Sanding the "flats" of the handle with 600 grit paper and a steel backing bar (just what I was doing in the last video);
Close up of same.... gotta get the guard sanded out as well!
Sanding the inside curve of the finger guard with some roundstock and 320 grit paper. I did the main clean-up of this transition by floating the J-flex belt into the junction... but I never can get the guard cleaned up quite right, so this is required. I don't want to mess up the junction, so I try to mostly just sand the steel guard. It's like sanding 90% guard, with 10% onto the junction. If you don't sand the junction AT ALL, then you'll get a noticeable lip there;
Same thing, different shot;
Once I get the steel smoothed out with 320 grit paper, I move to 600X, then 1200X. For the 1200X, I use this smaller piece of round stock with a piece of hard rubber tubing pressed over it;
At this point the entire handle, guard and all... has been HAND sanded to 1200 grit paper. I smear some Tru-Oil (a gun-stock finish) on the wood and do some more sanding with 1200X and a sanding stick that has a soft rubber face. This is stabilized Koa so this step is not a necessity, but it helps to ensure there are no funky open "pores" and that the wood will buff out nicely;
Sanding with the finishing oil. I will sand until the dust and oil build up a slurry, and then keep sanding. Almost all of the oil will penetrate into the wood and also be deposited onto the sand paper. After that I rub the handle down with a piece of flannel, then set it aside for a bit to make sure the oil won't be gummy when I go to the buffer;
Buffing needs to be QUICK. I used to think you could buff the crud out of something... and you can... but it will look like CRUD!
IF care was taken up to this point with the hand sanding, then the buffing will literally take seconds. I didn't spend an entire minute with this spiral sewn buffing wheel and white rouge;
I decided to mirror polish the inside curve of this guard. I've only done it on one other knife, Roger P's fighter... but I really liked it as it adds an interesting bit of contrast to the satin finished sides of the guard. I taped the handle off because I don't want to get green buffing compound on the wood, and the green compound works VERY well for getting the mirror polish I want;
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Oh no the end is near I really want to see this one finished, maybe almost as much a Lorien, but I don't want the WIP to end. Quick some else order a knife from Nick so we can keep on learning and being entertained by his craftsmanship.
I really want to see this one finished, maybe almost as much a Lorien, but I don't want the WIP to end. Quick some else order a knife from Nick so we can keep on learning and being entertained by his craftsmanship.
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- Dec 6, 2004
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- 7,636
Me Too And it's not Mine!!
this sure is an awesome Thread!!:thumbup:
And it's not Mine!!this sure is an awesome Thread!!:thumbup:
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- 9,437
Angi said the handle may have this very effect on some of the guys here! 
And you guys haven't even seen the photos of it that are to actually show the wood.
Mother Nature hit a GRAND SLAM with this piece of Koa... my photos and crappy video won't do it justice... hopefully if we send it off to Coop he can work some magic and get a quality view of this thing!
And you guys haven't even seen the photos of it that are to actually show the wood.
Mother Nature hit a GRAND SLAM with this piece of Koa... my photos and crappy video won't do it justice... hopefully if we send it off to Coop he can work some magic and get a quality view of this thing!
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Here's the inside of the finger guard with a mirror polish. The green compound leaves it a little bit cloudy, but that will come right out with the pink "no-scratch" buffing compound;
Buffing with the pink "no-scratch" compound on a spiral sewn buffing wheel. This should take about 30-45 seconds to do the entire handle (the way I do it anyway);
All buffed out...
same;
same;
same;
Taping off the handle to separate it from the guard. I want to put a hand sanded, satin finish on the sides of the guard, and this will allow me to do that without scratching up our freshly buffed handle. I have no idea how other makers do this... this is just one of those things I came up with when I realized what kind of finish I wanted. I'd imagine others do it similarly;
Here's the sanding block I use for the final finish on the sides of the guard. It's got just enough cushion/give to make it easy to get a nice, smooth finish;
I use an extremely high tech fixture for sanding the sides of the guard. Yep... my leg. I have the sanding block with 800 grit paper gripped firmly in one hand, and I rotate the knife with the other hand so that I can go all the way around the guard in smooth strokes;
Close up of the same;
Buffing with the pink "no-scratch" compound on a spiral sewn buffing wheel. This should take about 30-45 seconds to do the entire handle (the way I do it anyway);
All buffed out...
same;
same;
same;
Taping off the handle to separate it from the guard. I want to put a hand sanded, satin finish on the sides of the guard, and this will allow me to do that without scratching up our freshly buffed handle. I have no idea how other makers do this... this is just one of those things I came up with when I realized what kind of finish I wanted. I'd imagine others do it similarly;
Here's the sanding block I use for the final finish on the sides of the guard. It's got just enough cushion/give to make it easy to get a nice, smooth finish;
I use an extremely high tech fixture for sanding the sides of the guard. Yep... my leg.
I have the sanding block with 800 grit paper gripped firmly in one hand, and I rotate the knife with the other hand so that I can go all the way around the guard in smooth strokes;
Close up of the same;
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At this point the entire handle, guard and all... has been HAND sanded to 1200 grit paper. I smear some Tru-Oil (a gun-stock finish) on the wood and do some more sanding with 1200X and a sanding stick that has a soft rubber face. This is stabilized Koa so this step is not a necessity, but it helps to ensure there are no funky open "pores" and that the wood will buff out nicely;
Sanding with the finishing oil. I will sand until the dust and oil build up a slurry, and then keep sanding. Almost all of the oil will penetrate into the wood and also be deposited onto the sand paper. After that I rub the handle down with a piece of flannel, then set it aside for a bit to make sure the oil won't be gummy when I go to the buffer;
Nick,
That is a truly awesome looking piece of Koa wood...
Regarding your comments above this is a Great idea. I have noticed in talking with some makers that think that since something has been stabilized it is good to go. However, if one puts a stabilized piece of wood in water...it will still suck up water. Stabilizing does not seal out everything and when we sand we open up the pores.
If anyone is interested here is a weather test I have done over the last year on three pieces of stabilized wood, as well as, various multi-coat sealers on wood and a few synthetics. It this point all the wood looks like old gray deck boards except the natural Desert Ironwood.
Handle Material Weather Test
The proceedure and sample types are all laid out here. Bottom line with the testing is that straight sabilized wood is no better than a well sealed piece of wood. Taking the extra step of sealing a sanded handle is need to really make the stabilizing work to its full potential. I hope to test this further later this year.
Great work guys and thanks for taking the time to do this Epic endeavor.
Eric
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- Aug 13, 2002
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- 5,703
Well there I was almost finished with the jigs and now I have to make a zillion sanding sticks thingies. 
I know everyone has said it many times but thanks a bunch for sharing all this with us Nick. (And Lorien for the puter work of course). :thumbup:
I know everyone has said it many times but thanks a bunch for sharing all this with us Nick. (And Lorien for the puter work of course). :thumbup:
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This shows the sides of the guard sanded out with the 800 grit paper. It's gotta be nice and clean!
Now this next step is all Ed Caffrey's fault! LOL I showed Ed one of my forged hunters (this was over 12 years ago) and Ed told me he liked everything but the sharp edge on the guard. "Sharp edge on the guard?!?!... What?!?!" LOL He was right... when you shape up a guard the way I do, it will leave an edge sharp enough to scrape curls off of your thumbnail. So I made this little sanding stick so I can sand around the top "corner" of the guard and give it a nice, soft edge. Really the biggest problem with having a sharp edge here is it tears up a sheath... but it's the fine details right????
The narrow stick makes it easy to see what I'm doing, and it also helps having a small surface area so as to avoid hitting something you don't want to... like the blade!
Here's the sanding stick in action
Same thing, different angle... hopefully you can see in the pic how this will give a nice soft corner instead of a sharp one;
Handle has been sanded, buffed, smoothed.... only needs a pin now!
Now this is a bastardized version of how John White explained his domed pin process to me over the phone. I say it like that because I definitely want to give my friend John credit for helping me!!! But at the same time I don't want you to associate him with my weird version! LMAO
I start by cutting a pin that's long enough to stick out both sides of the handle a little bit, then round and buff both ends of the pin. I also score a few lines in the pin (near the middle) to give the epoxy a little extra surface area to grab onto.
Then I put the pin into this block and start peening the end that's sticking out with a mirror polished ball-peen hammer.
One maker I talked to about this, said this is "cheating" And I honestly have no idea what that means... because all I am doing it starting the head on one side of the pin before putting it in the handle. This makes it MUCH easier for me to set the pin. And this is essentially how the rivets that hold that old iron bridge together (that you drive on all the time) were made;
The pin peened a little bit, you can see I have the start of one head now;
I like to ream the pin hole with a tapered diamond cone. I'm not taking a lot of material out here... just making some room for the pin to expand and not crack the handle. All that fancy drilling stuff I did earlier is not really necessary when you're going to do a peened pin... but I still do it so that the middle section of the pin stays put and isn't "flopping around" inside a warbled out hole;
This is some Loctite epoxy I got from Tracy Mickley at USA Knife Maker Supply after reading a glowing review from our own, very well versed Matt Gregory. This is a two part system--- an adhesive and a spray activator. It is VERY STRONG. I still like using Acraglas for the handle itself as that's what I know, and it works VERY WELL. But for holding the pin tight while peening, this stuff works well and sets up FAST (3-5 minutes);
Here's part of my pin peening rig. It's a large steel block with a 3/8-16 stainless steel bolt threaded into it. The bolt head has been rounded over, a divot has been machined into it, and then the top of the bolt was mirror polished. It is basically a little stake anvil with which I can adjust the height. The nut can be tightened down against the block so that bolt will stay at the height you want;
Now this next step is all Ed Caffrey's fault!
LOL I showed Ed one of my forged hunters (this was over 12 years ago) and Ed told me he liked everything but the sharp edge on the guard. "Sharp edge on the guard?!?!... What?!?!" LOL He was right... when you shape up a guard the way I do, it will leave an edge sharp enough to scrape curls off of your thumbnail. So I made this little sanding stick so I can sand around the top "corner" of the guard and give it a nice, soft edge. Really the biggest problem with having a sharp edge here is it tears up a sheath... but it's the fine details right???? The narrow stick makes it easy to see what I'm doing, and it also helps having a small surface area so as to avoid hitting something you don't want to... like the blade!
Here's the sanding stick in action
Same thing, different angle... hopefully you can see in the pic how this will give a nice soft corner instead of a sharp one;
Handle has been sanded, buffed, smoothed.... only needs a pin now!
Now this is a bastardized version of how John White explained his domed pin process to me over the phone. I say it like that because I definitely want to give my friend John credit for helping me!!! But at the same time I don't want you to associate him with my weird version! LMAO
I start by cutting a pin that's long enough to stick out both sides of the handle a little bit, then round and buff both ends of the pin. I also score a few lines in the pin (near the middle) to give the epoxy a little extra surface area to grab onto.
Then I put the pin into this block and start peening the end that's sticking out with a mirror polished ball-peen hammer.
One maker I talked to about this, said this is "cheating" And I honestly have no idea what that means... because all I am doing it starting the head on one side of the pin before putting it in the handle. This makes it MUCH easier for me to set the pin. And this is essentially how the rivets that hold that old iron bridge together (that you drive on all the time) were made;
The pin peened a little bit, you can see I have the start of one head now;
I like to ream the pin hole with a tapered diamond cone. I'm not taking a lot of material out here... just making some room for the pin to expand and not crack the handle. All that fancy drilling stuff I did earlier is not really necessary when you're going to do a peened pin... but I still do it so that the middle section of the pin stays put and isn't "flopping around" inside a warbled out hole;
This is some Loctite epoxy I got from Tracy Mickley at USA Knife Maker Supply after reading a glowing review from our own, very well versed Matt Gregory. This is a two part system--- an adhesive and a spray activator. It is VERY STRONG. I still like using Acraglas for the handle itself as that's what I know, and it works VERY WELL. But for holding the pin tight while peening, this stuff works well and sets up FAST (3-5 minutes);
Here's part of my pin peening rig. It's a large steel block with a 3/8-16 stainless steel bolt threaded into it. The bolt head has been rounded over, a divot has been machined into it, and then the top of the bolt was mirror polished. It is basically a little stake anvil with which I can adjust the height. The nut can be tightened down against the block so that bolt will stay at the height you want;
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I glue the pin in place after reaming both sides of the handle, then go to the peening rig. I place the side that's already been started against the divot in the bolt, and start working the opposite side of the pin with the mirror polished ball peen. I work around the pin, gently tapping away... the knife is done other than this pin... so now would not be a good time to get too gung-ho and a.) miss the pin and hit the handle material or b.) spread the pin too much too fast and crack the handle;
Here it's set up in the whole peening rig. This is just like my pin drilling fixture, but more robust and taller. The blade is clamped down by the ricasso, then the bolt/block are situated so that the bolt is snug up against the pin on the bottom side. Now I can work on the pin with the hammer and a punch (with rounded and mirror polished end). This decreases my "likely to screw it up royally" factor;
Up close with the punch;
I work both sides, refining the shape and getting them domed evenly. You can get a pretty nice finish with just the hammer and punch. John does a faceted pin which is waaaay cool... but I haven't built the confidence to do one that way and leave it as-is just yet. So I want this pin highly polished. I put paper tape over the domed pin (both sides) and press it down around the pin as firmly as I can;
Next I go to my Foredom tool with a fine Cratex knife-edge wheel. I grind right through the paper tape with it, and once I do, then I gently work the Cratex against the pin to refine its finish;
Here you can see why I wanted the tape in place. I need to green rouge to get the finish I want on the pin, and I don't want to get the green compound embedded in the wood!
Now I go to the pink "no-scratch" compound and go over the whole thing very lightly (with tape removed);
Pin domed and buffed;
Last thing I do (besides final sharpening) is rub the handle down with Johnson's paste wax with my fingers. The heat generated will make the wax move well and allow me to get a nice coating. I set it aside and let the wax come to a haze;
Then I buff out the wax with either a piece of flannel or an old cloth diaper. This will remove MOST of the wax, but will leave a very thin/fine protective coating;
Here it's set up in the whole peening rig. This is just like my pin drilling fixture, but more robust and taller. The blade is clamped down by the ricasso, then the bolt/block are situated so that the bolt is snug up against the pin on the bottom side. Now I can work on the pin with the hammer and a punch (with rounded and mirror polished end). This decreases my "likely to screw it up royally" factor;
Up close with the punch;
I work both sides, refining the shape and getting them domed evenly. You can get a pretty nice finish with just the hammer and punch. John does a faceted pin which is waaaay cool... but I haven't built the confidence to do one that way and leave it as-is just yet. So I want this pin highly polished. I put paper tape over the domed pin (both sides) and press it down around the pin as firmly as I can;
Next I go to my Foredom tool with a fine Cratex knife-edge wheel. I grind right through the paper tape with it, and once I do, then I gently work the Cratex against the pin to refine its finish;
Here you can see why I wanted the tape in place. I need to green rouge to get the finish I want on the pin, and I don't want to get the green compound embedded in the wood!
Now I go to the pink "no-scratch" compound and go over the whole thing very lightly (with tape removed);
Pin domed and buffed;
Last thing I do (besides final sharpening) is rub the handle down with Johnson's paste wax with my fingers. The heat generated will make the wax move well and allow me to get a nice coating. I set it aside and let the wax come to a haze;
Then I buff out the wax with either a piece of flannel or an old cloth diaper. This will remove MOST of the wax, but will leave a very thin/fine protective coating;
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Here 'ya go Thanks again to everyone for following along!
BTW- My photo above makes it kind'a look like there's a ring around the pin, but I assure you it's clean! I think you'll see that in the video.
Thanks again to everyone for following along! BTW- My photo above makes it kind'a look like there's a ring around the pin, but I assure you it's clean!
I think you'll see that in the video.
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Well I don't know about the others, but I could see a bit of what you were talking about in the video. The knife looks as close to perfect as it can be and probably better in person:thumbup:
The next question is what is going to happen for a sheath? Are you doing it or is it getting sent out to someone else? I really hope that it gets sent to coop for some professional pictures. Not that yours aren't good enough, but the man has a talent that will really make the stills come to life. I really think that if you do send it out to coop that there will be a rush on Windex from all the people that need to clean their monitors off
The next question is what is going to happen for a sheath? Are you doing it or is it getting sent out to someone else? I really hope that it gets sent to coop for some professional pictures. Not that yours aren't good enough, but the man has a talent that will really make the stills come to life. I really think that if you do send it out to coop that there will be a rush on Windex from all the people that need to clean their monitors off