Which steels can offer the best edge ret and be still sharpenable, in this situation?

Last post for today before going to sleep (wake up in 4 hrs. Today/yesterday I did not hear the alarm and arrived late at work. Your fault. I was reading threads all time).

JR88FAN said:
M4 is inferior to M390 in edge retention, as long as all things are equal in terms of heat treat....
The major difference you will notice (as an EDC blade) between CPM-154/M4/3V vs 20CV/M390/204P is that the latter will hold their FINE edge significantly longer.
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Ok, so, for my two Benchmade options, Contego M4 62-64 vs Nakamura M390 60-62?
Supposing that the answer is that in this case the M4 has got more wear resistance, it also mean that in this case M390 has got more toughness? :)
About fine edge: you mean razor edge? Like the typical 154cm vs s30v in Leatherman Charge?
Because, that is exactly what I more care about: significantly longer lasting razor edge.

TravisH said:
The Spyderco Sharpmaker's standard rods will 'maintain' sharp edges but you'll need the Diamond or CBN to repair/restore/reprofile dull or damaged edges.
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Yes that is what that man said in the video. That's why I asked you, because I think I will always sharpen as soon as the razor edge is gone, because for me a knife without razor edge is a knife without edge.
So I may not need the other rods now. Anyway, they cost the same but Diamond is harder. Why should CBN be preferred?

JR88FAN said:
The reality is, if you look at the tasks we do with a knife as an EDC, there really is no "wrong" steel....
There may be some requirements that will make one better then another, but for the most part, your ability to sharpen a knife, repair an edge, and maintain a high level of sharpness will make the steel less important.
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I understand what you mean, but for me it is a bit like with PC. I do not need the ultimate super best possible processor, but I do need a system which overkills what I do (browsing? writing? music?).
The problem is not what I do, but HOW that "what" is made.
Even if I only open Firefox, if it opens in 0,5 sec instead of 2 sec, I am very very very happy. And if I can have 30 tabs open (like I always do) instead of 10, I am very super happy.
So for a knife.
I will not excavate a tunnel with it, I open concrete sacks and cut cords. But if its razor edge will resist much longer than with another knife, I am very happy. And if it will cut with less pressure, I am very super happy.

Anyway I appreciate your self confidence and way of transmitting the wish to develop one's skills.
I agree with you, I know what you mean by understanding knives and steels by sharpening and using wet stones.
It is like understanding plants by watering them.
I will do that, starting practising on my other cheap "knives", and on my kitchen knives.
This one, first, real good knife, I want it to be on another league.
A plant which needs less water than the others ;)

Good night and thanks!
 
If you are stuck on BM (great knives) and wear resistance is the main factor (nothing wrong with that) go with M390.....
 
I would recommend the Spyderco Bradley folder but it has M4 steel and you have a problem with its corrosion resistance. Otherwise the Bradley folder is made for the use that you describe. I don't think corrosion is that big of a problem but you do have to take care of it a little bit, and it is hard to find any steel that will hold an edge better than M4.

I think the Spyderco Manix 2 is a good work knife and its basic model is available in S30V steel which is no slouch, and should be a little better than 154.

The Spyderco Manix 2 and now the Spyderco Paramilitary 2 are available in S110V which is one of the best of the "super steels". It will challenge your abilities to sharpen it but it will hold an edge for a long time.
 
Ok, here's my two cents. If it wasn't for the work you do, I would recommend m4 in a heartbeat. It has edge retention equal to or slightly better than m390 in my testing and is a breeze to sharpen to a very fine edge. Easier than m390 or s90v to get to extreme levels of sharpness. The problem is I think you might end up with corrosion issues given the work you do. Honestly, I would probably recommend s30v. It is a very well balanced steel. It is very easy to sharpen and the edge retention difference between s30v and something like m390 is very difficult to see in real world use. It gets overlooked sometimes because there are newer and fancier options but I prefer the balance of properties that s30v offers to many of the newer high carbide steels.
 
I do work very similar to yours. Because corrosion resistance is so important, I limit my bladesto stainless steels. For one of my current work knIves, I m using the griptilian in m390 steel. Exclusive from one of our dealers, and a very tough work knife. In your price range.
Also agree with surfing gringo, except I would consider s35v for better toughness than s30v.
 
I agree with JR88FAN choice of steels, CPM20CV/M390/CTS-204P, and would throw in S90V.
Be careful NOT to go too thick on your blade-steel...that can really hurt your performance...sharp or not...
 
Sir Joe said:
Last post for today before going to sleep (wake up in 4 hrs. Today/yesterday I did not hear the alarm and arrived late at work. Your fault. I was reading threads all time).

Yes that is what that man said in the video. That's why I asked you, because I think I will always sharpen as soon as the razor edge is gone, because for me a knife without razor edge is a knife without edge.
So I may not need the other rods now. Anyway, they cost the same but Diamond is harder. Why should CBN be preferred?
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There are already a long list of good suggestions, and it does sound like you are likely to maintain a good working edge, and won't mind putting in some work. And subject to the blade/steel/usage, just prefer the sharpening is not too time consuming.

My 2 cents is to consider putting a micro bevel on a blade that you get, and use Spyderco Sharpmaker to help maintain that working edge whenever needed. Consider how little practice it needs and how easy to use, it truly is a fantastic sharpening classic.

For the Sharpmaker rods, I do own and use the diamond rods, but mainly for reprofiling or heavily damaged edge. If you are will to maintain the working edge, those diamond rods may or may not be necessary to begin with.
 
Ser Joe,

Given your list of preferences and other things you have talked about I have to think that M390 or S110V are probably the steels you would be most satisfied with in the long run. They are both super premium steels that are very wear resistant, have pretty decent corrosion resistance and are far from being too chippy or lacking in toughness for your likely EDC folder use.

In addition, as the near top of the line in performance ( abrasive wear resistance) you won't have buyers remorse from thinking "why didn't I get the highest wear resistant steels that are practical yet still good all around performers" which is a probable outcome of someone in your position. You want that performance and eventually will get it sooner or later so why not go ahead and get it now? Save yourself the time and money getting a knife that won't satisfy you ( emotionally, not performance wise. You can find excellent steels with less abrasive wear resistance) for long. Skip a step and move forward to the knife you will buy eventually. Get the best now and don't waste the money.

Pick out the model, size, features, and company you prefer. I would get the Spyderco Native in S110V ( the forum model if you can find it. They went for about $90 some dollars. A truly excellent price for a bonafide super steel). It's a lock back and about 3 inches with very comfortable grips and overall the best bang for the buck supersteel knife ever offered.

Of course like everything else if you don't get a model you get along with that feels good in the hand no matter how high performing the steel is you will end up not carrying it. I have two Benchmade M390 knives and sold several more and like them but I'm more the Spyderco type. The ergonomics of Spyderco knives usually agree with me so for me it's an easier choice than for you.

If you decide to go non stainless CPM M4 and 10V are pretty darn impressive performers for those looking primarily for abrasive wear resistance. They have much more to offer as well but they are no slouches when it comes to abrasive wear resistance.

Good luck.

Joe
 
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Joe, you still down for awhile? Another opportunity has come up I think you'd enjoy.
 
I am in agreement with Joe here, something in M390 or S110V would be fine.

Spyderco has the Manix 2 LW in S110V available as a regular production knife.

The real trick is to not let the knife get dull, touch up as needed on a ceramic rod from time to time is all that will be needed.

One could go for a very long time without having to actually take the blade to the stones to sharpen it.
 
Ankerson said:
I am in agreement with Joe here, something in M390 or S110V would be fine.

Spyderco has the Manix 2 LW in S110V available as a regular production knife.

The real trick is to not let the knife get dull, touch up as needed on a ceramic rod from time to time is all that will be needed.

One could go for a very long time without having to actually take the blade to the stones to sharpen it.
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That's how I keep my S110v Manix good to go, except some stropping here and there. It's been reprofiled down and cut through a lot of stuff but is scary sharp at all times
 
NJBillK said:
Strop more than sharpen.
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Absolutely. :cool: Maintain.

I'm also totally on-board with ceramic rods.

There's a lot of great information here on steels and 'makers, Sir Joe, and I don't have anything substantive to add. One thing I will say, though -- and I hope I'm not repeating something that's already been said here: Don't expect to get the perfect knife (steel) for you on the first try. Seriously.

Take all of this good advice, make your choice and get your knife. Live with it for a while -- use it, work with it, sharpen it, and then work with it some more. If you're like most of us, you'll be looking for something else (knife or steel, or both) that's better (for you) than your first choice.

That's what makes this stuff fun. :cool:

Tom @ KnivesShipFree
 
KnivesShipFree said:
Absolutely. :cool: Maintain.

I'm also totally on-board with ceramic rods.

There's a lot of great information here on steels and 'makers, Sir Joe, and I don't have anything substantive to add. One thing I will say, though -- and I hope I'm not repeating something that's already been said here: Don't expect to get the perfect knife (steel) for you on the first try. Seriously.

Take all of this good advice, make your choice and get your knife. Live with it for a while -- use it, work with it, sharpen it, and then work with it some more. If you're like most of us, you'll be looking for something else (knife or steel, or both) that's better (for you) than your first choice.

That's what makes this stuff fun. :cool:

Tom @ KnivesShipFree
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:thumbup:
 
For your requirements, you don't need 21st Century Super Steel. You need a nice thin blade that can take a great edge and not require a lot of honing time and a knife that's well built for the tasks you perform. Personally, I like VG-10. It was the super steel of the 1990s and it's still an outstanding steel when done by Falkniven, Al Mar or Spyderco. You might want to consider the Spyderco Centofante 3 as a possibility of meeting your needs. Thin blade, hollow saber grind, lightweight, not overly expensive and the thing can definitely slice like a laser beam although it might be too light duty for some of your tasks. But there are any number of fine cutting tools out there to consider...I think we too often get so bogged down in the minutiae of steels that we miss the overall design and build quality of knives.

As for sharpening, there are lots of different methods and devices and just about everybody gets good results once they master what they use and how they use it. But there's no One Way to do it. I like ceramic. I like the Sharpmaker. I like to freehand sharpen on the Sharpmaker ceramic sticks to keep edges keen. I like diamonds for damaged or dulled edges on hard steels (M4, S30V, D2, for instance). I get great results. Lots of people use other methods and devices and get great results.
 
Ankerson said:
I am in agreement with Joe here, something in M390 or S110V would be fine.

Spyderco has the Manix 2 LW in S110V available as a regular production knife.

The real trick is to not let the knife get dull, touch up as needed on a ceramic rod from time to time is all that will be needed.

One could go for a very long time without having to actually take the blade to the stones to sharpen it.
Click to expand...

I made the mistake of letting my Gayle Bradley (CPM-M4) get too dull. It was a bear to get back to a "razor" edge or whatever, but with stropping and touching up on ultrafine sharpmaker stones, it has been fine. Its all a learning process. To me, you can't just start with a "super" steel. You need to learn to work with and maintain a medium grade steel, like 154cm or D2.

Currently, now that I have some decent sharpening skill, I find S35VN and CTS-XHP my favorites.

In both my opinion and experience, it is better to start with a lower tier steel and learn to care for it than to jump in to the high end steel market right away. With softer, less wear resistant steels, it no only is easier to sharpen them but it is easier to correct a mistake. If you find you have a natural talent with sharpening, working with super steels will be easier.
 
Surfingringo said:
Ok, here's my two cents. If it wasn't for the work you do, I would recommend m4 in a heartbeat. It has edge retention equal to or slightly better than m390 in my testing and is a breeze to sharpen to a very fine edge. Easier than m390 or s90v to get to extreme levels of sharpness. The problem is I think you might end up with corrosion issues given the work you do. Honestly, I would probably recommend s30v. It is a very well balanced steel. It is very easy to sharpen and the edge retention difference between s30v and something like m390 is very difficult to see in real world use. It gets overlooked sometimes because there are newer and fancier options but I prefer the balance of properties that s30v offers to many of the newer high carbide steels.
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I am not disputing your personal findings, but there is no way M4 or S30V hold their fine edge like M390 (Given that the steels all had proper HT)

I could not recommend S30V to anyone based on it's chippy nature, and I have tried it on many knives, from different sources.

But that's just my $0.02 based on my experience.
 
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