Who else here hates pivot bearings?

Would you rather have pivot bearings or PB washers?

  • Pivot Bearings

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Phosphor Bronze Washers

    Votes: 3 100.0%
  • Total voters
    3
In my opinion... Is that okay to say? A bearing pivot allows you to tighten the pivot screw down more which helps make the knife more solid, helps prevent flexing.
 
I'm fine either way. I will say that I probably won't try to dismantle my bearing knives myself. I could do it, but if my ZTs get to the point that a quick bath, some air, and a drop of oil can't get them to fire like they used to, I think it's time to go back to the factory for a buff and sharpening.

My "dirty" knives tend to not use bearings, but that might be because those are my higher end knives and I don't want to tear them up where a beater would work just as well:D
 
David Lowry said:
I recently saw a few threads either here or over at the Spyderco forum where people were having problems with the steel washers that the bearings run on. The pivot was tightened so much that it left dimples in the steel washers.

This is just another thing that doesn't happen with PB washers.

FYI, I'm not trying to say there is a problem with the bearings. I'm simply saying "why" make a knife more complicated when it is not needed? Just more to break and more to fix.
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this is my thoughts on this topic as well.. along with every other thing people try to overcomplicate. As Danke42 said... a blade has to move 180 deg once at a time, so the thought of making something complex with more gaps and holes to gather debris or get over tightened and dimple or whatnot, seems like solving a problem that never really existed in the first place... EVERYTHING is better in it's simplest form as long as that form has been done well. In my job, i have been given some of the latest and greatest hi-tech military gadgets to solve all the worlds problems and you know what i've discovered? a $400,000 piece of laser trash never works as good as a map and compass. just my 2c
 
rustyrazor said:
this is my thoughts on this topic as well.. along with every other thing people try to overcomplicate. As Danke42 said... a blade has to move 180 deg once at a time, so the thought of making something complex with more gaps and holes to gather debris or get over tightened and dimple or whatnot, seems like solving a problem that never really existed in the first place... EVERYTHING is better in it's simplest form as long as that form has been done well. In my job, i have been given some of the latest and greatest hi-tech military gadgets to solve all the worlds problems and you know what i've discovered? a $400,000 piece of laser trash never works as good as a map and compass. just my 2c
Click to expand...


The whole knife hobby is essentially overcomplicating things for the sake of doing so. Literally anything after a sharpened piece of obsidian is unnecessary. Do we need titanium frames? Timascus? Damascus? Carbon fiber? What about axis locks? Surely a lockback is a good enough design to not warrant a more complicated system with more points of failure. The point is if we didn't do anything in knives simply because its not needed this hobby would stagnate and eventually implode with no innovation or boundary pushing. And to this day even with all the negative threads bearings generate over the years nearly every single semi valid complaint could also be applied to other knives they like while the rest of their complaints are unfounded conjecture with more opposing proof to their beliefs than to support it. But it really does not matter. This is why they make knives with both systems. There really is no wrong or right. But there are options.
 
I prefer a simpler folding knife over a more complex design. I prefer no loctite and washers like the Sebenza 21 for reference.
 
David Lowry said:
Awesome vids Stabman. :thumbup:
Click to expand...

Thanks. :)

I think it shows that the preference for bearings or washers is just that, preference.
Which is cool, because there are a whole bunch of knives out there to choose from. :thumbup:

G. Scott H. said:
The only thing I don't like is a knife with loose bearings, due to maintenance issues. If you want or need to take a knife like that apart, dealing with all those loose tiny bearings is a pain. Caged bearings, however, solve this quite nicely.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I don't want loose bearings either.
I hate losing parts.
 
stabman said:
Thanks. :)

I think it shows that the preference for bearings or washers is just that, preference.
Which is cool, because there are a whole bunch of knives out there to choose from. :thumbup:
....
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Most definitely. I had no idea that bearings would do so well. I'll continue to just use the crap out of my ZT 0450 then. :)
 
Doesn't anyone here cut oranges or grapefruit or something similar? I'd love to see bearings do this and then go to the beach the next day and come out fine.

Washers, man. Whoever says they gunk up the same can't have actually used their knives for much.

Having said that, bearings aren't a complete turnoff. But they're for nice show pieces. Not work knives.
 
bodog said:
Doesn't anyone here cut oranges or grapefruit or something similar? I'd love to see bearings do this and then go to the beach the next day and come out fine.

Washers, man. Whoever says they gunk up the same can't have actually used their knives for much.

Having said that, bearings aren't a complete turnoff. But they're for nice show pieces. Not work knives.
Click to expand...

As someone who actually uses knives, I have had knives with washers get gritty action...I didn't say "Washers; nice for show knives, not work knives."

If you think there's an issue with bearings, show some evidence.
Show us something that backs it up.
Anything.

Other than passive-aggressively saying that others "can't have actually used their knives for much."
Which you are wrong about anyway. ;)
 
bodog said:
Doesn't anyone here cut oranges or grapefruit or something similar? I'd love to see bearings do this and then go to the beach the next day and come out fine.

Washers, man. Whoever says they gunk up the same can't have actually used their knives for much.

Having said that, bearings aren't a complete turnoff. But they're for nice show pieces. Not work knives.
Click to expand...


Problem solved.
 
In terms of "here we go again", I believe it was in reference to the many times this subject has been discussed - I found these in the first 12 pages of search results, for instance.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...end-towards-bearings?highlight=pivot+bearings

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...-Ball-Bearing-Pivots?highlight=pivot+bearings

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...ing-Pivot-Durability?highlight=pivot+bearings

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...l-bearing-pivot-fail?highlight=pivot+bearings

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...ing-Pivot-Durability?highlight=pivot+bearings

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...ms-for-heavy-edc-use?highlight=pivot+bearings

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...s-the-next-big-thing?highlight=pivot+bearings

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...-ball-bearing-pivots?highlight=pivot+bearings

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...-Bearings-or-Washers?highlight=pivot+bearings

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...-bearings-vs-washers?highlight=pivot+bearings

best

mqqn
 
I recently acquired my first ball bearing pivot knife, a BM 761. That thing is smooth as glass, and has gotten smoother. It will literally fall shut under its own weight once past the detent ball, which is unique for a liner/frame lock. It feels so good. Until I owned that knife, I would have said bushings. After all, I've gotten very good at polishing bronze washers to the point that they feel like bearings. Any BM axis lock knife with polished washers has essentially no resistance. Same goes for Spyderco PM2s. But after owning the 761 for a while, there is a noticeable difference in smoothness.

To me, the biggest difference is not having to dance the tightrope between smoothness and play. With washer knives, even polished-to-glass washers, pivot screw tension directly influences both side to side play, as well as smoothness. The tighter you get that screw, the less play there is, but the speed disappears. Bearings do not suffer from that problem.
 
Just wanted to put this here. Even though I kinda "complained" a little about bearings....I can't put this down. I've had it for a few months but never warmed up to it until about 10 days ago. Now I can't put it down. This could be bad.

nLhKRHA.jpg
 
The 450 is a great little knife for sure!

My son in law and three guys from work have those. They all started checking out my many ZTs and Spydercos and then wanted a quality knife of their own. My son in law chose the ZT0450 over a small Sebenza, partly due to the cost and also due to the fact the 450 is so good.

Nice picture, David!

best

mqqn
 
David Lowry said:
I just don't get it. I've had knives with bearings and they are no big whoop. I own Benchmade's and Spyderco's that have PB washers and they are just as smooth or smoother than any folder I have had with bearings.

Bearings get dirty and/or gum up and need cleaned way more than phosphor bronze washers. Heck Sebenza's run on big PB washers.

It makes things unnecessarily complicated as well as makes the milling more expensive.

Please, go back to exposed stop pins and phosphor bronze washers.

Edited to clear a few things up: I don't hate bearing pivots. I just prefer PB washers. Gum up was probably a bad word to use. I just mean they get dirty and it is easier to get gunk in them. I own a ZT 0450 and it's one of the best knives I've ever owned...but I wish it had PB washers. :)
Click to expand...

Bearings are a non issue for me, that being said if any company wanted to make a much smoother bearing system that has zero possibilities of getting dirty or jamming up the works even on the smallest level the clear and simple answer is sealed bearings like you see in skateboards but much smaller. Problem solved not that there was one for sure... but no added milling cost, no variables of the possibilities of getting dirty and high much higher quality end product with overall stronger system then caged and PB bearings. my 2 cents but from a mechanical standpoint there isnt a debate which would work better : )
 
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