Who else uses a scythe?

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The bottom one is a cherry grip, I find it a little too round and will shape it accordingly once it dries more. The Maple grip is more ergonomic despite not being finished yet. Its too wet to rasp or get any sort of finish on without fuzzing up or tearing out.

Steve (or anyone for that matter), would you say this snath is too top heavy or just right? I told myself I had to wait until I got more blades before making more snaths, but I caved last night. I think this one might need a blade with a steeper tang? not much opposite curve towards the end of this one. Should be pretty when it dries more, Cherry snath with Maple and Apple for grips.

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G-pig said:
I had to drill the crap out of a couple folks who came from Euro scythes to American scythes. I can definitely visualize the differences, whether that will manifest itself with less of a learning curve is yet to be seen. More body motion and discipline since the weight does not plow through the swath I imagine. (not that the American is a brute necessarily, but the different zone of the swath makes that work in addition to the varying levels of extra weight.)

Thanks for the tip on the grips. I've been cutting more with a regular sized shank and way oversized grip so I can shape the grip with more flexibility.
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In my limited experience I think that it would be easiest to liken the differences between the two to being like two different dances, or like the difference between riding English or Western with horses. Both have their advantages and disadvantages with different focuses underneath them. You can plop a Western rider on a horse that rides English with tack to suit and they'll probably be able to make the horse go mostly where they want it to, and vice versa, but the techniques don't translate 100% even when trying to accomplish the same task. So having background in one school of scything (or horses) is beneficial and will help you hit the ground running, but you'll have to retrain yourself to adjust to the differences of the tool.
 
G-pig said:
...Steve (or anyone for that matter), would you say this snath is too top heavy or just right? I told myself I had to wait until I got more blades before making more snaths, but I caved last night. I think this one might need a blade with a steeper tang? not much opposite curve towards the end of this one...
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That looks good to me. Yes, the "opposite curve" at the bottom is subtle on this one, but it is there, and probably won't require too steep of a tang, as long as you're sizing it long enough from the right grip to the blade (depends on the height of the user).

I suggest rotating the left grip clockwise a bit (it's just a friction fit at this point, I presume) to see if it feels better while swinging. This will angle it more toward the left, which will probably feel better when pulling the snath to the left (with the grass resisting somewhat).

The view directly from the top (not shown in your photos) can indicate a potential problem if the snath curves toward the left (in the direction of the blade tip. The grips would then not line up with the blade (a line sighted from the top hand position, and passing through the lower hand position, defines a vertical plane that should ideally intersect the blade somewhere between midpoint and heel). Since European scythe blades are usually pressed down against the ground to some extent while swinging the scythe on the forward stroke, this ideal alignment would not tend to "twist" the snath in your hands and therefore would require less effort to hold and control.
 
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Steve Tall said:
That looks good to me. Yes, the "opposite curve" at the bottom is subtle on this one, but it is there, and probably won't require too steep of a tang, as long as you're sizing it long enough from the right grip to the blade (depends on the height of the user).

I suggest rotating the left grip clockwise a bit (it's just a friction fit at this point, I presume) to see if it feels better while swinging. This will angle it more toward the left, which will probably feel better when pulling the snath to the left (with the grass resisting somewhat).

The view directly from the top (not shown in your photos) can indicate a potential problem if the snath curves toward the left (in the direction of the blade tip. The grips would then not line up with the blade (a line sighted from the top hand position, and passing through the lower hand postion, should ideally intersect the blade somewhere between midpoint and heel). Since European scythe blades are usually pressed down against the ground to some extent while swinging the scythe on the forward stroke, this ideal alignment would not tend to "twist" the snath in your hands and therefore would require less effort to hold and control.
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In the photo, the snath was angled away from me (the small end is touching the barn wall, so as far as possible), so makes it look closer to a right angle then it is. Before the final fitting I will probably test varying amounts of splay away from the body, but the shape of the grip might somewhat limit that. I doubt it will be a problem though, this was splayed a moderate amount and I could still move it further. Further still if I re shaped the grip a little bit.

I don't grasp the physics of it, but I tried to make sure that the handles weren't exactly lined up with the tang, or worse, behind that on the opposite side of the tang from the blade. This Cherry snath doesn't have as much offset as the first Birch snath, but I tried to orient it so instead of utilizing all the curve (which was in one plane, more or less) to the downward sweep (to keep the grips more level) I could keep the forward grip a little ahead of the top grip and thus putting that "line of grip" or whatever in a more desirable lay. I knew I liked an offset axe handle, so despite the obvious differences, Peter's description of the line of grip with a snath made sense. Not necessarily in a technical way, but I could imagine the feel of it and the differences in balance.
 
Sounds good, G-pig.

Steve Tall said:
...a line sighted from the top hand position, and passing through the lower hand postion, defines a vertical plane that should ideally intersect the blade somewhere between midpoint and heel). Since European scythe blades are usually pressed down against the ground to some extent while swinging the scythe on the forward stroke, this ideal alignment would not tend to "twist" the snath in your hands and therefore would require less effort to hold and control.
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Edited in bold for clarity.
 
That's a good description and illuminating in terms of the differences between European and American method. Very different from an American scythe since the lower nib acts as a pivot point for a pendulum-type action and so the upper hand is positioned further away from the body to allow for greater travel as it operates the drawing (almost rowing) action of the stroke. I just went out and sighted between the nibs on my American snaths and the line created between them would intersect the arc of the swing just shy of a foot or so to the right of the end of the snath.
 
Don't it make a more closed hang too, aiding in the slicing motion?

By closing the hang that much, doesnt a straight pull across the body essentially equate to a pretty acutely angled slicing cut? Hence why the American scythe requires less body motion in general?
 
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I just went out to verify it and I think you're right. A straight pull wouldn't be tremendously angled, but very little motion of the left hand generates a great deal of slicing action on the business end which, combined with the pull across the body creates a very powerful cut. When standing with the end of the snath at the 3 o'clock position and my right hand just in front of my hip my left hand sits about 3-4" forward of my right.
 
G-pig said:
...By closing the hang that much, doesnt a straight pull across the body essentially equate to a pretty acutely angled slicing cut? Hence why the American scythe requires less body motion in general?
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According to Peter Vido, in the Basque region of Spain the scythe stroke is nearly straight across (from right to left), instead of being swung in a big arc. This style requires a hafting angle that is very acute or "closed".
 
Steve Tall said:
According to Peter Vido, in the Basque region of Spain the scythe stroke is nearly straight across (from right to left), instead of being swung in a big arc. This style requires a hafting angle that is very acute or "closed".
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Didn't Peter originally hybridize that and the Austrian style?
 
Part of the reason for a closed hafting angle providing a more aggressive slicing action is that you're increasing the travel of the cutting medium along the edge, effectively lengthening the stroke so to speak. Think of push-cutting a potato vs. a sliding stroke and the difference in depth of cut between a 2" and 4" stroke. Additionally the sectional density is increased due to the angle of approach which creates a much thinner edge without actually changing the blade's geometry. This effect is the same as how one may climb extremely steep inclines by zig-zagging up their face instead of marching straight up. A closed angle sacrifices length for increased ease of cut while an open one increases reach but diminishes the ease of the cut. Hence a closed angle is better for tougher targets and an open one better for light ones that are easily cut as you may take a wider swath. I am totally butchering the explanation for this but I'm rather distracted right now due to being swamped with accounting. :p
 
FortyTwoBlades said:
Part of the reason for a closed hafting angle providing a more aggressive slicing action is that you're increasing the travel of the cutting medium along the edge, effectively lengthening the stroke so to speak. Think of push-cutting a potato vs. a sliding stroke and the difference in depth of cut between a 2" and 4" stroke. Additionally the sectional density is increased due to the angle of approach which creates a much thinner edge without actually changing the blade's geometry. This effect is the same as how one may climb extremely steep inclines by zig-zagging up their face instead of marching straight up. A closed angle sacrifices length for increased ease of cut while an open one increases reach but diminishes the ease of the cut. Hence a closed angle is better for tougher targets and an open one better for light ones that are easily cut as you may take a wider swath. I am totally butchering the explanation for this but I'm rather distracted right now due to being swamped with accounting. :p
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Makes fine sense to me. And that's saying something, because I aint too bright when it comes to the technical stuff. Heel to tip honing (like almost everyone does) aligns the micro serrations of the edge to cut better with a closed slicing motion too.
 
Steve (or anyone else)--are you able to find anything indicating the reasoning behind the preference for black cherry for American snaths? I've only been able to find one anecdotal comment that "the cherry snaths were better bent." I can't tell if cherry actually had mechanical properties that made them better suited to the task or if it was simply used by manufacturers to indicate their best work (highest standards, best workers, etc.)
 
There are a couple brief references to a cherry snath in the article mentioned below (if you download the book, it's on page 246, just after the article titled "Build-it-Yourself Grain Cradle")

"Colby likes a snath made of cherry, but it's impossible to find cherry snaths today."

My experience with cherry is that it tends to be brittle and not nearly as strong as ash, maple, or hickory. (But I never tried making a snath with it.)

Steve Tall said:
Here's a book from the '70s with some articles regarding the American scythe in Chapter 6, Harvesting Equipment:

"Tools for Homesteaders, Gardeners, and Small-Scale Farmers",
edited by Diana S. Branch, Rodale Press, 1978

Articles about the American scythe include:

"Bring on the Scythe" by Drew Langsner
"Build-It-Yourself Grain Cradle" by Richard Weinsteiger
"Hand Mowing: Few Have the Skill to Swing a Scythe -- Properly" by Steve Taylor

A quote from the above article by Steve Taylor:

"A man who can handle a scythe as gracefully and efficiently as anyone in New Hampshire is Stanley Colby of Cornish, a retired agricultural extension agent for Sullivan County and now a town selectman and amateur historian. Colby grew up on a river farm in Plainfield. His father declined to do hand mowing when Stanley approached manhood, and so the boy had to learn. Colby’s grandfather. Albon Wood, instructed him on mowing by hand with a scythe, and coached him for a year or two. Wood could mow all day long and hardly work up a sweat, Colby recalls. Colby is willing to coach greenhorns today. much as his grandfather did him a half century ago."

"‘There's not much to it. You just have to know how to mow, how to sharpen a scythe, and how to set the nibs.” The nibs are the handles affixed to the snath, which is the curved handle of the tool. The scythe is the metal blade which does the actual cutting. ‘You should set the nibs so they’re comfortable and then hold the tool in a normal position close to your body. The tip of the scythe should then be at your left foot."

“'Then you do it. You keep your heel down, stand up tall. If you bend forward, you’ll be a basket case in no time,' Colby advises."


The book can be downloaded here, it's a big book (over 500 pages) and a big file:
http://www.fastonline.org/CD3WD_40/JF/417/06-257.pdf
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It makes me wonder if perhaps the reason why it was preferred was simply that it took the curves more permanently without as much springback? It's just very odd to me that so much cherry used to be used for the purpose when ash has long been the standard for both steam bending and tool handles not requiring the strength of hickory. Like I said I can find lots of references to the preference for cherry, but not really anything saying why, of all things! :p
 
Here's a newspaper article from 1965 titled "Before It's All Forgotten, which mentions (among other things) "the advantages of a snath made of cherry wood over one of ash." Unfortunately, the article is pay-per-view ($3.95), and it might not even go into details.

from Google News archives search result:
Before It's All Forgotten
‎Pay-Per-View -
The Sun - Aug 8, 1965
... every- thing grew in the woods and he could make anything out of wood. ... age ; the advantages of a snath made of cherry wood over one of ash; how to taw a ...

http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/baltsun/access/1720316612.html?FMT=ABS&FMTS=ABS:AI&type=historic&date=Aug+08%2C+1965&author=&pub=The+Sun+%281837-1985%29&desc=Before+It%27s+All+Forgotten&pqatl=google
 
Figured it was worth the risk so I bought the article. It doesn't go into details, but it details the publication based on the memoirs of the interviewee's (Walter Needham's) grandfather. A quick search based on that information lead me to "A Book of Country Things" which at least gives me the hint that such information might be contained therein. At any rate it looks like it'd be an interesting read!

Edit: Found it on Google Books with "Snippet View" and was able to confirm that it mentions scythes several times with seemingly relevant information, and then found a used copy for sale on Amazon for $0.01 with 3.99 shipping. I still had a couple bucks left over from a Christmas gift card so I ordred it. Will report back once it lands! Thanks, Steve! :)
 
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I'll have to look it up later! The lady who was selling them found a digital scan of the catalog they were used to print and just sent me the link. A little busy right this second but will post it probably sometime tomorrow. :)
 
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