Who is using CPM D2

Yarivan said:
Hola
Guys I do not have so much expereince as you in knives and steels used.
But I have read the testing of Microtech Socoms in D2 and S90V by some Russian knife crazy guys. They were also very surprised when the D2 showed better results than s90v.
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Aw, c'mon...
 
nozh2002 said:
All what you say may be very well true, if it has some test results which is different then mine, and I really like to see that. However so far there are no other test available around. So until then this is just baseless words, any one can generate (and many do here obviously).

Do you have other research with testing done which may support your claime on inferior external validity of my tests? Show them if you have. If you don't - why bother talking about that? Everything is possible in theory - this is power of imagination, but I am doing real testing, sorry.

Now unexpected finding I was mentioned already had external validation - please, pay attention to my previous post - they are there. And I have more cases like that.

Thanks, Vassili.
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...aaannndd you completely fail to understand the point I was making. Good luck with your "tests", and happy trolling! :rolleyes:
 
As I struggle to understand this, I think Vassili has a point. Wear resistance and edge retention are often used as synonyms, but reality is more complicated.

Wear resistance is what it is, and it will typically correlate to edge retention, but not always. Hardness and blade geometry and the size of carbides, etc., will affect edge retention.

For example, a steel at a specific wear resistance and hardness may have excellent edge retention on a knife with a 40-degree inclusive edge angle. But if the angle of the edge is made much more acute, the edge will roll or bend or chip, reducing edge retention to average or poor.

Edge retention is affected by more factors than wear resistance.
 
Twindog said:
As I struggle to understand this, I think Vassili has a point. Wear resistance and edge retention are often used as synonyms, but reality is more complicated.

Wear resistance is what it is, and it will typically correlate to edge retention, but not always. Hardness and blade geometry and the size of carbides, etc., will affect edge retention.

For example, a steel at a specific wear resistance and hardness may have excellent edge retention on a knife with a 40-degree inclusive edge angle. But if the angle of the edge is made much more acute, the edge will roll or bend or chip, reducing edge retention to average or poor.

Edge retention is affected by more factors than wear resistance.
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Wear resistance is just one thing that factors into edge retention, exactly. Many, many more factors play into overall edge retention. Steel type, heat treat, edge finish, edge geometry, etc.....
 
Twindog said:
As I struggle to understand this, I think Vassili has a point. Wear resistance and edge retention are often used as synonyms, but reality is more complicated.

Wear resistance is what it is, and it will typically correlate to edge retention, but not always. Hardness and blade geometry and the size of carbides, etc., will affect edge retention.

For example, a steel at a specific wear resistance and hardness may have excellent edge retention on a knife with a 40-degree inclusive edge angle. But if the angle of the edge is made much more acute, the edge will roll or bend or chip, reducing edge retention to average or poor.

Edge retention is affected by more factors than wear resistance.
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I just tested 2 knives today with the same steel and company.

One blade was an FFG with .025" behind the edge and the other was Sabre grind with .045" behind the edge, both reprofiled to 30 degrees inclusive.

Can you guess what blade performed better and by a good margin?

There is a reason why I use certian criteria and standards that have to be met in my testing so it puts the blades on more equal terms.
 
Ankerson said:
I just tested 2 knives today with the same steel and company.

One blade was an FFG with .025" behind the edge and the other was Sabre grind with .045" behind the edge, both reprofiled to 30 degrees inclusive.

Can you guess what blade performed better and by a good margin?

There is a reason why I use certian criteria and standards that have to be met in my testing so it puts the blades on more equal terms.
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So I take it my Dozier Buffalo River Hunter would be disqualified from testing if the hollow grind gives it less than 15 lbs of starting downforce:confused:?
 
Noctis3880 said:
So I take it my Dozier Buffalo River Hunter would be disqualified from testing if the hollow grind gives it less than 15 lbs of starting downforce:confused:?
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No, but if it fell under 14 LBS then it would, then it would have to compete with Phil Wilson's blades. His start in the 9 to 12 LBS range depending on how thin he grinds them. ;)

One of the blades started at 13 LBS and the other 14 LBS, I used the blade that fell within my standards of 14 to 15 LBS.

99% of production blades fall within 14 to 15 LBS from what I have tested sofar, but then I am picky on what I will even consider testing, they have to be thin enough.
 
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Buffalohump said:
Boy we havent had one of these for a while..... :yawn: :D

My two cents: I had a Para-Millie in CPM-D2 for a while and used it for the usual things. It did just fine.... I would definitely say, based on my personal experience, that it took and held an edge better than regular D2. However, I would qualify that statement by saying that the D2 knife I had was a Benchmade, and in my experience Spyderco always puts a better edge on their knives than Benchmade, out of the box.

To answer the OP's question: CPM-D2 isnt used nearly enough! Only Kershaw and Spyderco have used it, and that in a sprint run. That's production knives. As for customs, sounds like you need to speak to Danbo if you want something in CPM-D2. From what I know of his work, you wont be disappointed!
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Boker Dozer uses it , bo611 fixed blade .
 
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Ankerson said:
I just tested 2 knives today with the same steel and company.

One blade was an FFG with .025" behind the edge and the other was Sabre grind with .045" behind the edge, both reprofiled to 30 degrees inclusive.

Can you guess what blade performed better and by a good margin?

There is a reason why I use certian criteria and standards that have to be met in my testing so it puts the blades on more equal terms.
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I think many people forget how much edge geometry can influence a test and you touched on it here. :thumbup:
 
One thing I like about this Vassili guy is that he doesn't take things for granted and tests them out.
Just because a new steel comes out doesn't mean it's the best thing in the world.
In my own real world experience differences between steels is a minor point in the overall knife capacity.

I'm starting to think that there is alot of marketing behind the 'wonder' steels
 
Revolverrodger said:
One thing I like about this Vassili guy is that he doesn't take things for granted and tests them out.
Just because a new steel comes out doesn't mean it's the best thing in the world.
In my own real world experience differences between steels is a minor point in the overall knife capacity.

I'm starting to think that there is alot of marketing behind the 'wonder' steels
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As an engineer I know the value of testing,


...and I've tried to gain insight form our friends results,


...but after re-reading his methods and procedures it's obvious that his lack of sharpening skill and the inability to repeat testing results makes me very worried about his opinions.


Many of us here test blade for ourselfs and for people seeking our opinions,

...I don't think our friend falls into that catagory.


I'm not sure of his agenda. :eek:








Big Mike
 
Big Mike said:
As an engineer I know the value of testing,


...and I've tried to gain insight form our friends results,


...but after re-reading his methods and procedures it's obvious that his lack of sharpening skill and the inability to repeat testing results makes me very worried about his opinions.


Many of us here test blade for ourselfs and for people seeking our opinions,

...I don't think our friend falls into that catagory.


I'm not sure of his agenda. :eek:








Big Mike
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What a wonderful comment! It is great demonstration how show works - when people talk about things they obviously did not bother to check!

My lack of sharpening skill and inability to repeat test results! What a miss!

This is my well known luck of sharpening skills, some links:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQPwHu4lxsQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5TscN9h-1xQ

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=549075

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=554632

And about stability of results you may found in testing thread - I did test Jody Muller 1095 three times with stable results.

Nobody else even provide test results, but just final conclusion that this is steel better then that. To me this can not be counted as testing at all!

Like recently one "steel guru" revealed what was his theory on PM steel were based - once he change old carpet in his room and use three knives,
CPM S30V one outperforms BM D2 (on my tests BM D2 show worse results) based on this comparison - average CPM S30V vs worse D2 he made big
theory that PM steel with higher carbide volume better. Very interesting reading he came up, which show true power of imagination, but this has
nothing to do with little World of reality...

I really feel sorry for you. Vassili.
 
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i also seem to remember a game warden sharpened to about a 10 degree inclusive angle.


then the user got all baffled when the darn thing rolled.
 
A 4 page thread on CPM-D2? and I though it would be interesting....

I really like the steel and wish it was used more but AFAIK kershaw is the only production knife maker that has it in current production knives. To me its a lot like a carbon class of S30V, it has similar edge retention but all the qualities of a carbon steel.

CPM D2 vs S90V come on... its just not even a comparison. In rope cutting I could see though how one could get the perception that CPM D2 is better. S90V seems to "dull" quickly on rope where the CPM D2 stays sharper, depending on how the edge is judged it could make it seem as though the CPM D2 was out performing the S90V. This is far from what is really happening though and unless other cutting is performed impressions could be skewed.

CPM D2 is a good user steel but its no S90V or M4.
 
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