Who would buy the 0454 with a non-composite blade?

[RamZar]

For the dreamers, why a solid piece of M390? If your going to dream, why not K390?

ZT has plans on using M390 in 0350M390, 0777M390 and 0801CF. So, by getting more of that steel they can pass on the savings.

 

[Hairlesstwinkie]

It is like some of you people have never seen something change from the concept/prototype stage to the production stage.

Chevy Volt Concept/prototype:

Volt Production:

It happens, deal with it.


Was there this much pissing and moaning that the 0560 wasn't an exact copy of the XM-24? I know people are still crying for a 3 inch XM-18 copy but we know it isn't going to happen.

I don't remember anyone throwing a hissy fit that the 0454 isn't an exact Overkill, just some whining about the handle texturing.




Not every knife ever made is going to be built to your exact specifications and tastes, get over it or start making your own knives...

When I talked to the people at the Kershaw booth at Blade, they said that the 0454 that was being displayed won't be seeing any changes when it enters production.

 

[Ridgeback08]

I'd be down with a 0454 with a single blade steel. Don't get me wrong, I appreciate the 0454 as it is but if ZT decided to make it without a composite blade I'd be standing in line! I love that custom from the ZT Cardinator thread.

 

[Kai Corp.]

When I talked to the people at the Kershaw booth at Blade, they said that the 0454 that was being displayed won't be seeing any changes when it enters production.

Well I'm sure there will be a minor detail or two that we will tweak once we go to produce, but we're talking the "2013 Overall Knife of the Year here. To move away from the uber-slick Tri-CB blade wouldn't really make it the bestie of 2013 now would it?

We'll see if there will be variations with the 0454 , but we're waay early with all of that.

 

[Janv]

Are there any "lesser" Kershaw knives related to the 0454 in the way that the 0600 has smaller siblings?

 

[jimmer_5]

HEY! its NOT a prototype. Its a custom that was called a prototype by a magazine and the maker. It was only used as a representation of their collaboration at a press conference. Where you get prototype from that is beyond me. ( I do hope you picked up on the sarcasm)

Semantics aside, the knife was announced long before we began engineering it for production. Hence, when the collaboration was unveiled in Russia, one of Dmitry's custom knives was used to show the concept.

Like any great collaboration, we worked closely with Dmitry to make sure that he approved of any changes we made. He made suggestions and we made suggestions. There was a lot of back and forth, and we were both happy with the end result. I am pleased with how close to his original concept the final product is - our team worked hard to make that happen.

We were excited about the idea of a three piece composite blade, and we thought that this knife would be a great place to try this idea. We also discussed the composite blade together and made sure Dmitry liked it as well. He was a pleasure to work with, and we look forward to continuing this relationship.

 

[Hairlesstwinkie]

Well I'm sure there will be a minor detail or two that we will tweak once we go to produce, but we're talking the "2013 Overall Knife of the Year here. To move away from the uber-slick Tri-CB blade wouldn't really make it the bestie of 2013 now would it?

We'll see if there will be variations with the 0454 , but we're waay early with all of that.

Please do! I would love a more affordable price and a solid blade version of the 0454.

 

[Brummie]

Well I'm sure there will be a minor detail or two that we will tweak once we go to produce, but we're talking the "2013 Overall Knife of the Year here. To move away from the uber-slick Tri-CB blade wouldn't really make it the bestie of 2013 now would it?

We'll see if there will be variations with the 0454 , but we're waay early with all of that.

Appreciate the response. I wasn't trying to suggest you shouldn't make an award-winning knife that a lot of people are crazy for. Just hoping there is space for a variant down the road that would also be popular.

 

[Kai Corp.]

Are there any "lesser" Kershaw knives related to the 0454 in the way that the 0600 has smaller siblings?

Have not even had those conversations as of today. Lot's going on at the factory, with many decisions to be made. We"ll see what happens, but lot's of goodness is in the future.

 

[PURPLEDC]

Semantics aside, the knife was announced long before we began engineering it for production. Hence, when the collaboration was unveiled in Russia, one of Dmitry's custom knives was used to show the concept.

Like any great collaboration, we worked closely with Dmitry to make sure that he approved of any changes we made. He made suggestions and we made suggestions. There was a lot of back and forth, and we were both happy with the end result. I am pleased with how close to his original concept the final product is - our team worked hard to make that happen.

We were excited about the idea of a three piece composite blade, and we thought that this knife would be a great place to try this idea. We also discussed the composite blade together and made sure Dmitry liked it as well. He was a pleasure to work with, and we look forward to continuing this relationship.

Yeah, I get what your saying. What I typed above was more of a tongue in cheek poking of fun at the trivial things that people deem necessary to point out. It was simply easier for me to say "prototype" than to say "dmitry sinkevich custom serving as a representation of the possible direction of their future collaboration". That just doesnt roll off the tongue quite like prototype.

It is like some of you people have never seen something change from the concept/prototype stage to the production stage.

It happens, deal with it.
Was there this much pissing and moaning that the 0560 wasn't an exact copy of the XM-24? I know people are still crying for a 3 inch XM-18 copy but we know it isn't going to happen.

I don't remember anyone throwing a hissy fit that the 0454 isn't an exact Overkill, just some whining about the handle texturing.

Not every knife ever made is going to be built to your exact specifications and tastes, get over it or start making your own knives...

Why so hostile? No one is bad mouthing the knife. Many in fact have stated they plan on buying one despite prefering the original sinkevich. Just because someone isnt offering infinite praise doesnt automatically qualify it as pissing and moaning. In fact there really only seems to be one post in this thread that resembles that. You may be surprised to find which one it is.

 

[Scurvy092]

Why so hostile? No one is bad mouthing the knife. Many in fact have stated they plan on buying one despite prefering the original sinkevich. Just because someone isnt offering infinite praise doesnt automatically qualify it as pissing and moaning. In fact there really only seems to be one post in this thread that resembles that. You may be surprised to find which one it is.

Oh how clever of you to take such a subtle dig at me. Sorry to offend but after reading three pages of stuff like this:

I would prefer a plain blade myself. Doubt I will pick one up with the composite.

Fell in love with this knife when I saw the proto, was very disappointed when I saw the production version

would doing one without composite blade make it cheaper price wise? i love the knife as it is but wont ever get one due to price so if its cheaper without composite id be interested

I am afraid that my sentiments are very similar.

When I saw the original custom version I was convinced that It was pretty much an automatic buy. Unfortunately, I like the look of the original better. I would defiantly prefer a stainless steel like m390, elmax, or s110v. Its also sad to see the sweet blue ring on the pivot gone. The original had such an understated elegance to it. I do have to admit that I like the 454's unobtrusive screws in the handle.

Still a great looking knife, but I was definitely disappointed. Think I will probably pass on it.

the patchwork 0545 blade is aweful, IMO. blocky squares do not gel with smooth flowing lines of the folder. are they out for sale/pre-order already or? just wondering....

I definitely prefer the original prototype. The triple sandwich design would be cooler if the blade was a dagger/spearpoint blade. The lack of symmetry is a bit of an eye sore, but if I come across a 0454, you bet I'll be walking home with the knife.

That to me sounds like a few sour grapes over the look of the knife and the changes from the custom to the production version.

If someone wants a custom SiDiS, let them order it. Why criticize and complain about the production version?

 

[jimmer_5]

Yeah, I get what your saying. What I typed above was more of a tongue in cheek poking of fun at the trivial things that people deem necessary to point out. It was simply easier for me to say "prototype" than to say "dmitry sinkevich custom serving as a representation of the possible direction of their future collaboration". That just doesnt roll off the tongue quite like prototype.

Don't worry, I caught the joke you were making. I was just razzing you. There is often a "custom prototype before the production prototype" if you will. However, there is a long road from the original concept to the final product that we unveil, and production prototypes are generally closer to reality. Thankfully this design didn't change very much in the translation.

As to the3 comments about making a solid blade - I don;t think anyone has crossed the line here. I understand that some people will feel this way. However, as of right now, the knife is not going to change. There is always a chance that we could do more with this pattern in the future, but, as KAI CORP said, we are focused on the current offering as of right now, not future versions.

 

[Brummie]

Why criticize and complain about the production version?

Because aside from publicizing their product, the point of a manufacturer's forum is to get feedback from their customer base. That information is very valuable for companies, especially in a competitive market where subtle aspects of consumer preference are highly influential. Comments should be kept constructive and respectful, but if the intention is to have a sycophancy forum as opposed to a discussion forum, then I for one wouldn't be very interested to read it.

I don't think anyone has posted here who isn't a fan of ZT knives. Some are saying they love the 0454 as it is. Others are saying that there would also be demand for a slightly different version. If you don't agree with their opinions, fine. If you don't think they should express their opinion, well, OK. But why make it personal with a bunch of pejorative language implying that we're all spoilt little cry-babies?

 

[RamZar]

Because aside from publicizing their product, the point of a manufacturer's forum is to get feedback from their customer base. That information is very valuable for companies, especially in a competitive market where subtle aspects of consumer preference are highly influential. Comments should be kept constructive and respectful, but if the intention is to have a sycophancy forum as opposed to a discussion forum, then I for one wouldn't be very interested to read it.

I don't think anyone has posted here who isn't a fan of ZT knives. Some are saying they love the 0454 as it is. Others are saying that there would also be demand for a slightly different version. If you don't agree with their opinions, fine. If you don't think they should express their opinion, well, OK. But why make it personal with a bunch of pejorative language implying that we're all spoilt little cry-babies?

I agree. KAI now knows that if they have the wherewithal and the opportunity arises it could do a single steel blade version and there'll be demand for it.

People have expressed their viewpoints some more passionately and politely.

The key is to freely and clearly state your viewpoints in a cordial, respectful and constructive manner and when arguing keeping things civil.

 

[sticktodrum]

Because aside from publicizing their product, the point of a manufacturer's forum is to get feedback from their customer base. That information is very valuable for companies, especially in a competitive market where subtle aspects of consumer preference are highly influential. Comments should be kept constructive and respectful, but if the intention is to have a sycophancy forum as opposed to a discussion forum, then I for one wouldn't be very interested to read it.

I don't think anyone has posted here who isn't a fan of ZT knives. Some are saying they love the 0454 as it is. Others are saying that there would also be demand for a slightly different version. If you don't agree with their opinions, fine. If you don't think they should express their opinion, well, OK. But why make it personal with a bunch of pejorative language implying that we're all spoilt little cry-babies?

I'm not sure you're representing the situation entirely accurately. A quick read at the first few pages shows some negative sentiment that I don't think is the most respectful with regards to the design that Dimitry and ZT ended up with. It's one thing to ask for lock bar inserts, deep carry clips for lefties as well as righties, etc., things that would affect the end-user's performance of the knife. It's another thing entirely to look at a design pattern and say it's awful, or horrible, or that it dissuaded someone from buying it after assuming that the Sinkevich piece was the actual knife. That's insulting to the creative outcome of the designer and production team. That's just not nice, and from what I've read, the language used by the people against a composite blade express an attitude not unlike those of spoiled crybabies.

I agree. KAI now knows that if they have the wherewithal and the opportunity arises it could do a single steel blade version and there'll be demand for it.

People have expressed their viewpoints some more passionately and politely.

The key is to freely and clearly state your viewpoints in a cordial, respectful and constructive manner and when arguing keeping things civil.

In fairness, all they know now is that a bit under 20 people say that they'd buy it. There have been a few instances where people say they'd be totally in for a high priced item, and then when time came to buying it they weren't interested anymore.

I do think that if ZT made a 0454 variant with a single piece blade that it would sell well, likely sell out. However the feelings expressed in this particular thread have not all been very cordial, and don't show that much of a legitimate demand. There probably is a demand, I don't doubt it, but a lot of the talk here just isn't the most convincing.

 

[NeverMore1701]

If someone thinks something is ugly, or are disappointed in the final design, I can't hold it against them for saying so.

 

[sticktodrum]

Neither could I, but I also wouldn't color it respectful and cordial.

 

[RamZar]

If someone thinks something is ugly, or are disappointed in the final design, I can't hold it against them for saying so.

Neither could I, but I also wouldn't color it respectful and cordial.

The choice of words is key. You can be to the point without being discourteous.

 

[RamZar]

In fairness, all they know now is that a bit under 20 people say that they'd buy it. There have been a few instances where people say they'd be totally in for a high priced item, and then when time came to buying it they weren't interested anymore.

I do think that if ZT made a 0454 variant with a single piece blade that it would sell well, likely sell out. However the feelings expressed in this particular thread have not all been very cordial, and don't show that much of a legitimate demand. There probably is a demand, I don't doubt it, but a lot of the talk here just isn't the most convincing.

I'm looking at the totality of the thread plus others where the ZT 0454/Cardinator were discussed:

• ZT Cardinator
• Your Top ZT pick (new announcements/introductions) of the 2013 Blade Show
• Blade 2013 thread! (KAI related)
• ZT 0454 Question
• Zero Tolerance 0454 Pics . . .
  

 

[Brummie]

Neither could I, but I also wouldn't color it respectful and cordial.

I think we'll have to respectfully disagree on this. In dozens of posts, one person said "awful", one person said "eye-sore", but overall I think the tone was measured - I've never heard a toddler throwing a "hissy-fit" to say "I was disappointed" and leave it at that. I pushed back earlier on the comment wrt to criticizing the wife's cooking because this is not a case of looking a gift horse in the mouth, it is a case of giving feedback to a company that is offering a product for sale. And I don't really see the difference between saying you would think twice about buying something because of the aesthetic design on the blade vs saying the same thing because of the choice of pocket clip.

Sorry to labor the point, but for me the great value of these forums is the ability to interact directly with the manufacturers / makers. I value ZT representatives taking the time to post here, and I hope they value getting a better sense of the tastes and preferences out there. They changed the handle material on the 0770 because the initial response was luke-warm, and I think everyone has benefited as a result. I am not saying that the 0454 is the same situation - if I were ZT, looking at the reaction overall, I would not change it but I might think about offering other options. What I am saying is that without honest feedback we all lose out.