why a large knife is better in the woods - an informal trianing scenario

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Oct 31, 2007
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spent the day in the woods, with a OHT and a Khukuri.

the goal was to build a shelter frame (lashed) for a tarp shelter, but to try two different sized blades and under duress.

First attempt

OHT, and i was warm and dry. Took approximately 45 minutes to build a nice frame,most of the time was spent whittling the limbs to cut them down. and tarp it, and make a clean dry flooring for it with boughs.

second attempt

Khukuri , and i was warm and dry. Took 20 minutes to drop the limbs and lash them together, tarp it and make a dry flooring.

third attempt

OHT, and i was soaking wet from a dunk in the icy stream (fully clothed). Took 2 hours to try and cut down the limbs, lash it and tarp it. had a real hard time trying to hold the OHT safely, ended up lashing it to my hand.

4th attempt

Khukuri, and i was again soaking wet (fresh dunk ). Took 35 minutes to drop the limbs, lash them and tarp it, floor it. did'nt have any issues with grip on the khukuri, even though the hands were numb and had no feeling.

a very unscientific test, but one that is interesting to try (have a friend go with you and bring spare clothes. ) To me it highlightd the limitations of small knifes when under duress (in this case cold) . I t also higlighte dmy own weaknessas and limitations.

that being said, i still carry a trio into the woods, (large chopper, large fixed balde and and a folder)

anyone else tested their limits with gear int he woods, under various conditions?

obviously in a real life situation where i had fallen into a icy creek and gotten soaked...io would have stripped my clothes, huddled under a heat tarp with a candle to warm up and gotten into dry clothes......before building a shelter (if i needed a shelter) , but i wanted to test my motor control while cold and using a knife of different sizes.

:cool::cool:

EDIT EDIT EDIT! July 29/08)

please read the following, its a shame i need to post this but certain people make crap like this a necessity ....

"this test was a NON scientific test, without control groups, without an ample supply of shelter making saplings all the same size and in the same location, and done through-out the day under various stages of alertness, fatigue, cold, numb fingers, different clothes after every stream dunk, hunger pangs, etc etc etc etc. It was not meant to be a final authority on bush craft, or large vs small knife final countdown, etc etc etc etc. It was simply a day in the mountains, with a bunch of friends, most who sat by the river and drank beer and BBQ'ed, and one who kept an eye on me in case of emergency. The timekeeping was NOT strict and down to the millisecond, it was timed by people other than myself. If you were to repeat this test (PLEASE DO and post up your findings!!!!) YOUR results might vary, for whatever reason. I had fun doing this and learned a lot (frankly, mostly how to wring out most of the water from mine clothes after getting dunked......)

your mileage might vary.
 
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Joined
Jul 17, 2006
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Wow. You really get yourself into your "work." I HATE being cold and wet while in the great outdoors. My hat's off to you. Gives me something to think about next time I head out in the late fall or early spring.
 
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I find it best to "fully experience" a situation that could happen when in the woods, by doing a (relatively controlled) trial test. That way i know what it will feel like, be like, and what to expect if it happens for real.

some stuff i have done:

- immersion into icy creeks
- "broken" limb...this was simulated by bending my leg back and tying it off.
- loss of vision, simulated by a blindfold, got to experience doing everything by "touch" (lighting a fire adn making fuzzsticks while "blind" is a slow process but it can be easily done.
- severe dehydration (done with a EMT in attendance and several helpers. I stopped drinking water two days prior to the walk, then hiked with a 30lb pack on a hot day. ( i was gratefull for the IV after the EMT stopped the project.)
- one arm (i put the other into a sling) One learns to use their feet as a pair of hands for holding things (like sticks for fuzzstick cutting)


i hate getting wet and cold, i have Renauds syndrome to start eith, so my hands cramp up QUICKLY anyways, never mind with a icy immersion. But it was intersting to try in any case.
 
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Bushman5, that is the way to do it. So many on these forums Do armchair theorizing about knife issues. I must say you have done so solid tests for yourself to determine blade efficiency.

For a while I was getting excited about 5" do it all knife but after this summer of doing some tests, I am moving back to the large knife combo. Although, the important thing to remember is my large knife on short hikes will be in the back pack and one can lose their pack. So real time practice with a small knife is still essential.

Also, many people say a folding saw is better than a large knife but there are still moveable parts that can break.

Thanks for your contribution.
 
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I think the biggest thing some of these experiences have opened my eye up to, is that i'm more aware of my OWN limitations. for example, the loss of sensation in my fingers, even on a hot day, from my renauds syndrome, makes me more aware of wheni should throw a warm fleece on or some gloves. After the immersion, i was a complete gimp, but i was able to make crude choppy motions .

ya'lls milage might vary, but i highly recomend trying a test(s) like this, in the company of your friends.
 
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Great testing Bushman! Not surprising at the outcome, but many forget the advantage a large knife can give you...it's about efficiency and small knives are good at small projects and big knives are good at big projects; hence the common sense to take a trio, quad or quinate:D

It's always good to practice degraded motor skills and/or working with an "injury" to hone your skills. Most worst case scenarios start with a spill in the cold water or unexpected injury.

ROCK6
 
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thats pretty informative. usually we dont simulate survival situations while testing a blade, makes it all the more realistic if we did. thanks for the review.
 
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I admire your dedication to your work

right now , its cold here anyways , been raining off n on for a couple days and its cold ..

the thought of going for a swim in cold water is not what I want to think about :)

OTOH , I been stuck in the cold and wet , with hands cold and uncoperative , and didnt notice Id cut myself till things just got that much harder to grip .. blood was making things slipperier .

I never considered it a test , just more $#!t to put up with while I was making a shelter and got a fire going ...I hate the cold and the wet , like it makes everything I broke and tore and injured ache .

I have had to do what you did , but not for fun or to write about , just cos it was what I had to do at the time , I never gave thought to trying it again with a different knife to see if it would be easier next time ... I spent all my energies making sure that there wouldnt be a next time instead ...
 

sodak

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Mar 26, 2004
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I've done the same thing, but the cold and wet were unintentional. Large choppers can be incredibly useful, but you can never seem to convince some people of that...
 
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Aug 21, 2002
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In the northern forest a large blade or a hatchet is a must. I tried using a saw but there's no contest, the saw takes far more energy and time to harvest the same amount of shelter poles.

A large blade doesn't need to be expensive either. Start with the 12" ontario machete and upgrade from there.

I have a No. 2 Estwing hatchet that's a good shelter builder. I'm comfortable with either but prefer the 12" macheter.
 
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Jul 31, 2007
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So, I hate to sound like I've got a case of noobitus. But what does OHT stand for? I didn't notice it in this list:
Ontario Hydro Technologies ***
Output Horizontal Tabstops ***
4-hydroxy-tamoxifen ***
Ocmulgee Heritage Trail ***
Orthotopic Heart Transplantation ***
Oak Hill Technology ***
Of 4 Hydroxytamoxifen ***
Ohio History Teachers ***
Ovarian Hormone Therapy ***
Online Halon Trader ***
Over the Horizon Targetting ***
Occupational Health Testing ***
Ocular Hypertension Treatment **
of Hashimoto thyroiditis **
open harvesting technique **
Oral Hydration Therapy **
original human tumor **
orthotopic heart transplants **
orthotopic hepatic transplantations **
orthotropic heart transplantation **
On Hook Transmission **
anti-oestrogens 4-hydroxy-tamoxifen **
ocular hypertensive volunteers **
older hypertensive patients **
or 4-hydroxy tamoxifen **
Open History Timeline **
orthotopic heart replacement **
Oman Hotels Tourism **
OMRON Healthcare Taiwan **
Organization of History Teachers **
One Handed Tourniquet *
Oasby Horse Trials *
Off Highway Truck *
Overhead Hoist Transportation *
Oahu Hiking Tales *
Oregon Heritage Trees *
Over the Horizon Targeting
 
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Jul 31, 2007
Messages
1,421
Oh, and kudos for getting wet! I was going to try this during my winter camping trip. To see if I did happen to be by myself in the winter canoeing, and fell in. I wanted to know what it would be like to try to start a fire with what I had with me.

So, basically, I didn't get wet, and I couldn't start a fire with a 15 minute road flare because I rushed myself too much... and I didn't focus on the basics of fire building. So I realized that was something that needed to be more second nature for me. So I've been practicing a lot!
 
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Mar 31, 2006
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Were you able to swim with the big knife or did you stand on the bottom ? I've been wondering if you would be dragged down buy the weight by the khukri?

You really get into the survival training :thumbup:
 
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Mar 30, 2006
Messages
494
So, I hate to sound like I've got a case of noobitus. But what does OHT stand for? I didn't notice it in this list:
Ontario Hydro Technologies ***
Output Horizontal Tabstops ***
4-hydroxy-tamoxifen ***
Ocmulgee Heritage Trail ***
Orthotopic Heart Transplantation ***
Oak Hill Technology ***
Of 4 Hydroxytamoxifen ***
Ohio History Teachers ***
Ovarian Hormone Therapy ***
Online Halon Trader ***
Over the Horizon Targetting ***
Occupational Health Testing ***
Ocular Hypertension Treatment **
of Hashimoto thyroiditis **
open harvesting technique **
Oral Hydration Therapy **
original human tumor **
orthotopic heart transplants **
orthotopic hepatic transplantations **
orthotropic heart transplantation **
On Hook Transmission **
anti-oestrogens 4-hydroxy-tamoxifen **
ocular hypertensive volunteers **
older hypertensive patients **
or 4-hydroxy tamoxifen **
Open History Timeline **
orthotopic heart replacement **
Oman Hotels Tourism **
OMRON Healthcare Taiwan **
Organization of History Teachers **
One Handed Tourniquet *
Oasby Horse Trials *
Off Highway Truck *
Overhead Hoist Transportation *
Oahu Hiking Tales *
Oregon Heritage Trees *
Over the Horizon Targeting

OHT usually stands for One Hand Trekker, a model knife made by Victorinox.
 
Joined
Dec 28, 2007
Messages
1,061
I used to prefer large choppers first too until I convexed and sharpened a cheap Canadian tire hatchet. I personally did a comparison between a chopper and a hatchet but that was before I became involved in BFC so I have no pics. It will perform better at everything a chopper does with the exeption of cutting down small standing saplings, but it does that great too. It can also be choked up on like an ulu for fine whittling or food prep. I like my fiskars hatchet so much that I'm gonna put micarta around the shaft for a better grip and also try and stuff a small psk in there. If it means anything to anyone, if I could only have one sharp object in the woods, it would be a hatchet.
 
Joined
Jul 11, 2000
Messages
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Big works when the sh&t hits the fan and your under stress.and it has to be done Now:D
long blade easy when your hands are cold,hard to work smaller cutting edge skillfully.
 
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Apr 10, 2007
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- severe dehydration (done with a EMT in attendance and several helpers. I stopped drinking water two days prior to the walk, then hiked with a 30lb pack on a hot day. ( i was gratefull for the IV after the EMT stopped the project.)

You know, I'm rather surprised you didn't get a heart attack if you went three days without drinking anything and then hiked with a load on a hot day.

Anyways, I certainly agree that it's good to "field test" different scenarios, especially ones where your gear or yourself will be limited in ability. I've spent a lot of effort doing that - and it pays off to know what your limits are in different conditions.

I don't consider the SAK vs Kukri comparison to be a valid comparision of a small knife versus big knife, though. The SAK is a folder, and therefore a non-knife in the first place. That is, if you ask me. A small fixed blade is far more convenient for actual work, and not much harder to carry. Of course, it won't chop like a kukri, but then, I've never seen chopping as that all important.

I found it extremely interesting that you found the grip of the kukri comfortable to use in those conditions. Because, I find it absolutely awful in normal conditions. But then, tastes differ. That's why it's important to test these things for yourself, and not rely on what some Mors or Ray writes. :thumbup:
 
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