why a large knife is better in the woods - an informal trianing scenario

If some of you consider a folding saw can cut a 1 inch branch as fast as a good chopper and/or with less effort, this means you have never tried a high quality chopper.
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But just how important is speed when it comes to cutting limbs for a shelter?

Consider the increased chances of maiming oneself with a chopper, especially when one is cold and fatigued, and in a hurry, I don't think it's the wiser choice.
Yes, sawing with a swiss army knife is not always the fastest method of cutting timber, but it's extremely safe....and very precise too.
But with a chopper, all it takes is just a single glancing blow to redirect the blade into one of your own limbs....and then the "wilderness survival situation" instantly becomes a "medical emergency situation"....and all because one wanted to save a little time.

And consider the original post...

the goal was to build a shelter frame (lashed) for a tarp shelter, but to try two different sized blades and under duress.

First attempt

OHT, and i was warm and dry. Took approximately 45 minutes to build a nice frame,most of the time was spent whittling the limbs to cut them down. and tarp it, and make a clean dry flooring for it with boughs.

second attempt

Khukuri , and i was warm and dry. Took 20 minutes to drop the limbs and lash them together, tarp it and make a dry flooring.
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The khukuri took 20 minutes, and the OHT took 45 minutes....and he didn't even use the saw on the OHT.
I'll bet that if he had used the saw then it would have taken no more than 30 minutes with the OHT.
So basically, one would choose a much more dangerous method just to save 10 minutes time....not a good trade off in my opinion.

third attempt

OHT, and i was soaking wet from a dunk in the icy stream (fully clothed). Took 2 hours to try and cut down the limbs, lash it and tarp it. had a real hard time trying to hold the OHT safely, ended up lashing it to my hand.

4th attempt

Khukuri, and i was again soaking wet (fresh dunk ). Took 35 minutes to drop the limbs, lash them and tarp it, floor it. did'nt have any issues with grip on the khukuri, even though the hands were numb and had no feeling.
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Again, if he had used the saw of the OHT, then he probably would have not needed to lash the knife to his hand and would have cut the limbs in about the same time as the first attempt.

I'm also puzzled how he actually made better time with the khukuri on the second attempt than he did on his first attempt....especially since he had been soaked twice and had numb hands.

In fact, I don't even know how he could hold the khukuri with numb hands???
I've have had numb hands before, and you really can't grasp anything....I sure as heck wouldn't be swinging a chopper with numb hands.... this is very dangerous to oneself and to anyone else standing nearby!
 
I think you have misread.

with warm hands it took me hardly any time, with cold hands it took me a little longer, BUT less time than with cold hands and pen knife.

the Khukuri is extremely easy to hold with numb hands, the rubber handles are GRIPPY, large, and there is a swell near the end that cups the hand and keeps it from sliding off.

thirdly, the OHT DOES NOT HAVE A SAW - it is a single blade! therefore NO saw! blade only! and it was a KNIFE test , not a saw vs knife test.
 
Bushman5 said:
I think you have misread.
thirdly, the OHT DOES NOT HAVE A SAW - it is a single blade! therefore NO saw! blade only! and it was a KNIFE test , not a saw vs knife test.
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But...you should have used a saw...where's the saw? hell...why not a chainsaw? :D









just kiddin guys
 
looky ya wiseguys! if can barely start my felling saw when i'm toasty warm, on account of the freaking high compression...it aint happening when i'm cold (unless the saw is warm alreeady..,...)

on the the topic of the OHT, i got an email form one of ya sayying the OHT apparently does have a saw. Looks like the clerk put the knife i have in the wrong box. (its labeled OHT).

i have the single blade one handed opener.,
 
this too is a Trekker, so the e-mail was right and wrong
 

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Well, that clears up a lot of confusion :thumbup:

While I respect the big choppers and axes, I guess I'm still in the honeymoon phase with saws. The cutting power to weight ratio just floats my boat.

I did this with an 8.25 inch Silky Saw that weighs about 9 oz. in under 3 minutes. (The Aurora is shown to give a sense of scale)

DSC_2716.jpg


Another rarely praised feature of a saw is the fact that it produces sawdust which with a squirt of PJ makes some robust tinder.
 
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I think you have misread.

with warm hands it took me hardly any time, with cold hands it took me a little longer, BUT less time than with cold hands and pen knife.
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No, I did not misread....you said that it took you 45 minutes to build a shelter with a khukuri while warm and dry, but only 35 minutes with a khukuri after being soaked twice and having numb hands.

It just doen't add up....I suspect that your timing device was faulty.


And according to Victorinox, the One-Hand-Trekker definitely has a saw bladed....

http://www.swissarmy.com/MultiTools/Pages/Product.aspx?category=outdoor&product=54874&

the Khukuri is extremely easy to hold with numb hands, the rubber handles are GRIPPY, large, and there is a swell near the end that cups the hand and keeps it from sliding off.
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I'm goin going to have to cry "bullsh*t" on this one....if you're hands are so numb that you had no feeling (per your own post), then you aren't going to be able to hold on to a knife, regardless of its handle material or design....it's a matter of tactile sensation.
And it's very dangerous to swing a chopper with numb hands...

Would you stand beside a person swinging khukuri if they told you that their hands were numb from the cold???

Something very fishy about this "test".
 
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wow.

this was NOT a strictly monitored and timed scientific test with control groups, Allen. This was a hang out with friends and time (with a cheap pocket watch) how long it took with different sized blades under different circumstances. The wood used was all differnt sizes and types, the clothes were slightly different the second time round, a lot of variables for a impromptu test.

Is a few minutes really that crucial to you Allen? i dont have the funding to for a strictlly controlled, timed, no variables, several control groups, etc etc etc... this was merely something i did for fun that opened my own eyes to my own weaknesses when cold/wet.

as for the grip thing, are you for real? i can grip a rubber gripped blade just fine with numb hands that barely have any feeling.

nit picky a wee bit today?
 
Allen, please Dougs posts above, i have the one handed trekker with a SINGLE BLADE

SINGLE BLADE, = ONE BLADE

ONE , SINGLE SOLITARY BLADE.

ONE.

BLADE

A

SINGLE

SOLITARY

BLADE.

thank you.
 
and because you seem to simply be unable to leave this alone, here is my Original posts for you to READ carefully again: (please heed the words "READ CAREFULLY")

First attempt

OHT, and i was warm and dry. Took approximately 45 minutes to build a nice frame,most of the time was spent whittling the limbs to cut them down. and tarp it, and make a clean dry flooring for it with boughs.

second attempt

Khukuri , and i was warm and dry. Took 20 minutes to drop the limbs and lash them together, tarp it and make a dry flooring.

third attempt

OHT, and i was soaking wet from a dunk in the icy stream (fully clothed). Took 2 hours to try and cut down the limbs, lash it and tarp it. had a real hard time trying to hold the OHT safely, ended up lashing it to my hand.

4th attempt

Khukuri, and i was again soaking wet (fresh dunk ). Took 35 minutes to drop the limbs, lash them and tarp it, floor it. did'nt have any issues with grip on the khukuri, even though the hands were numb and had no feeling.

now please either contribute to the thread, or refrain from posting in a thread describing what was an otherwise enjoyable experience.

.
 
Allen, please Dougs posts above, i have the one handed trekker with a SINGLE BLADE
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Let's see a link to a Victorinox One-hand-trekker without a saw, and not some tiny little picture that only shows the main blade deployed.

"I can chop perfectly fine with a khukuri even though my hands are numb and I can't feel them...."

Bullsh**. :jerkit:
 
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Hey Bushman5,

Thanks for your efforts. What happened is what I expected, but, nevertheless, it was nice to see somebody putting it to the test.

Many years ago, I used to use a hatchet (Estwing, actually - a very nice little hatchet) but I came to the conclusion, like many others, that a hatchet can be a dangerous tool, especially if you're cold or injured, hell, I almost clipped myself one time when I was warm, intact, and not drinking :confused:.

Since I started using machetes (and later the Machax), thanks to my buddy Pete (from Jamaica), I found that the increased length of the cutting edge made the machete a much safer tool for me to use. I've heard lots of stories of guys that rearranged their leg arteries with a hatchet and I could see how that could happen.

So, it's big choppers for me (an axe would be a consideration if I didn't have back problems, but I do :()

In the circumstances you describe, a big chopper would be the way to go (for me, at least, YMMV)

Doc
 
allenC said:
Let's see a link to a Victorinox One-hand-trekker without a saw, and not some tiny little picture that only shows the main blade deployed.

"I can chop perfectly fine with a khukuri even though my hands are numb and I can't feel them...."

Bullsh**. :jerkit:
Click to expand...

Ahh...there is always an expert on something that one did not see firsthand.

Instead of trying your best to hijack a thread, try this:

Find a knife like the OHT and something similar to a Khuk. Now, either hold your hand in the air or lay on it until it falls asleep. Try to grip the OHT and perform a simple chopping task. Now, repeat with a knife with a larger grip and swell at the end of the grip.

I just did it when you decided to begin ranting about something you clearly didn't see. It worked. I used a Ridge Runner slip-joint and a Tram machete, since that is as close as I could get.

The results:
I could close my hand around either knife with some difficulty. [For those who are having trouble following along, that is what the OP said he could do] I found it to be easier with the machete as it has a little knob-type thing at the end of the grip.

I found that fine detail work was nearly impossible since I could not control my fingers very well. However, I could chop pretty easily.

As far as the Trekker, bushman clearly stated that it may have been mis-packaged, it clearly fits the definition of a Trekker, but not the OHT. However, if you ENLARGE the "tiny little picture," you can clearly see the fact that the knife only has the screwdrivers and a main blade. Have you no google, sir? As an aside, the vic/swiss websites are not exactly the best. I own a Trekker that is not shown on their site. It was verified by gracious members of this forum. So much for the reliability of their website...

PeACE
Dougo
 
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Hey Bushman, I tried to respond to your email but it got kicked back. I basically said, although not so politely, that if AllenC thinks your test is BS, then so be it. I liked it.

Doc
 
Good test. We appreciate it.
Wow people are getting tense around here lately, must be the heat.
Hopefully this won't turn into a thread like the Noss-bashing thread (s).
In the words of Rodney King "why can't we all just get along?"
:D
 
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