Why are blades rarely slicey?

22-rimfire said:
I never see all of these broken or ground to nothing knives in pawn shops. We must frequent different shops. ;) That said, I find it really boring to root through a big pile of knives at a pawn shop. I don't see many bargains. What I see is a lot of Chinese junk.
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My dinky little town has nothing and there are no pawn shops anywhere near me, any knives I find are at yardsales and the flea market or old school army surplus a town over.
I don't see as many knives as I would like but what I do are so often Chinese junk or just broken / ground down.
 
I think there’s a technological reason why blade stock have ballooned as modern folders evolved. I’ll pick on Spyderco in particular since it’s the most obvious. If you have a 1/2” hole in a blade it now needs to be way wider than 1/2”. Wider blade profiles mean thicker blade stock for a give grind angle (assuming flat grind).

Wider blade profiles then become fashionable and next thing you know we all want pocket cleavers.

I’m most puzzled at bevel angles. Decades of super steels and I haven’t seen a folder with an aggressive bevel angle... ever. I know why a manufacturer would err on the side of thick but come on, plain edge knives with more acute angles start cuts so much better.
 
zhyla said:
I think there’s a technological reason why blade stock have ballooned as modern folders evolved. I’ll pick on Spyderco in particular since it’s the most obvious. If you have a 1/2” hole in a blade it now needs to be way wider than 1/2”. Wider blade profiles mean thicker blade stock for a give grind angle (assuming flat grind).

Wider blade profiles then become fashionable and next thing you know we all want pocket cleavers.

I’m most puzzled at bevel angles. Decades of super steels and I haven’t seen a folder with an aggressive bevel angle... ever. I know why a manufacturer would err on the side of thick but come on, plain edge knives with more acute angles start cuts so much better.
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Jeez, what counts as an "aggressive" bevel angle to you? I've seen and sharpened plenty of Spydercos ground damn near or at 30 inclusive. Seems pretty aggressive by most people's standards. Admittedly they are better than most, but I've had Benchmades ground from the factory at 32 to 34 inclusive regularly as well, though they are admittedly closer to 36-40 for the most part, which still isn't bad compared to many others. But regardless, for knives marketed for general use to the general public these seems pretty "aggressive."
 
halden.doerge said:
Jeez, what counts as an "aggressive" bevel angle to you?
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I mean, it depends on the steel and the knife. A Manix 2 with 30+ degrees inclusive makes sense. My positron seems closer to 40 (edit: just measured, ~38 degrees) and I think that makes no sense for what I perceive that knife to be for (light EDC use). It depends on what the steel is capable of and how careful a user is willing to be.

I run my kitchen knives (1095 ~61 Rc) at 16-18 degrees inclusive. I made them for myself and solely for vegetable slicing so I can get away with that. When I occasionally use one to slice open a plastic bag/packaging I’m amazed at how well it works.

I suspect Spyderco’s S30V can be taken down well into the 20’s without too much consequence. I think someone on the Spyderco forum regularly reprofiles at 25 degrees inclusive.

The thickness behind the edge is another important factor. I hate seeing tall bevels. They look gorgeous. But the taller that bevel the thicker it is behind the bevel. I guess there’s some reason to have some meat there but I think a lot of the time it’s over kill.
 
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zhyla said:
I mean, it depends on the steel and the knife. A Manix 2 with 30+ degrees inclusive makes sense. My positron seems closer to 40 (edit: just measured, ~38 degrees) and I think that makes no sense for what I perceive that knife to be for (light EDC use). It depends on what the steel is capable of and how careful a user is willing to be.

I run my kitchen knives (1095 ~61 Rc) at 16-18 degrees inclusive. I made them for myself and solely for vegetable slicing so I can get away with that. When I occasionally use one to slice open a plastic bag/packaging I’m amazed at how well it works.

I suspect Spyderco’s S30V can be taken down well into the 20’s without too much consequence. I think someone on the Spyderco forum regularly reprofiles at 25 degrees inclusive.

The thickness behind the edge is another important factor. I hate seeing tall bevels. They look gorgeous. But the taller that bevel the thicker it is behind the bevel. I guess there’s some reason to have some meat there but I think a lot of the time it’s over kill.
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I tend to agreed with you on most of that. I think Spydercos Taichung factory tends to run their bevels more on the obtuse side, Seki City can be inconsistent on it in my experience. The Golden, CO knives tend to have the most acute factory bevels I’ve encountered from about anyone. I’ve also noticed that their key models (PM2, Para3, Manix) have been getting thinner behind the edge and ground right near 30 inclusive. It’s a trend I hope continues.
 
22-rimfire said:
I never see all of these broken or ground to nothing knives in pawn shops.
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Depends on the pawn shop.
At some, I have to ask "Hey, do you have any old pocketknives in back?"
Others have them sitting right out there.
There is a lot of variation in the way pawn shops are run...they aren't like going to Walmart! :D
 
Following the flow.

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stabman said:
Have you ever gone looking to buy a used traditional knife? An old one that was actually used?
Have you noticed how many knives you pass up because of the broken tips from prying that many exhibit? :confused:
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The vast majority of my knives are old used traditional knives. In my searching for them I run across only a relatively few with broken blades or broken tips.
 
Dean51 said:
Because this thread needs more pictures. :)
JHvFZnx.jpg
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That is a sharp looking GEC #43. I have one too. That knife will cut just about everything most of us need to cut on a day to day basis.

I found a SAK at one of the houses I was cleaning out a while back and it had a broken blade. I trashed it along with all the other stuff. But honestly I see relatively few traditional knives with broken blades.
 
22-rimfire said:
That is a sharp looking GEC #43. I have one too. That knife will cut just about everything most of us need to cut on a day to day basis.
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Thanks. :)
Those are as big as folders get for me. Usually have one or the other with me, in a small benchmade sheath. Along with one of the Lionsteel barlows or a #35 Churchill.
 
zhyla said:
I run my kitchen knives (1095 ~61 Rc) at 16-18 degrees inclusive. I made them for myself and solely for vegetable slicing so I can get away with that. When I occasionally use one to slice open a plastic bag/packaging I’m amazed at how well it works.
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That's pretty cool. Not sure I have any kitchen knives hard enough to try that. I have no doubt it cuts well.
 
Over the years, I've collected boxes of odd assorted kitchen knives. The vast majority of these would be called "flexible blades" or knives that could be used to fillet fish. Some are of thicker stock, most not exceeding 3/16 of an inch. I learned how to sharpen on inexpensive kitchen knives. As I've said before, I always felt that the original Bowie knife was indeed a big, wide butcher knife which probably was just a bit thicker than 1/8th stock. Fighting knives had to be quick in the glove while being robust enough to withstand considerable punishment. Sounds like a small machete with mods to me!

The somewhat bizarre trend of knives gravitating towards super thick blades of 5/16th and above is noteworthy but somewhat confusing. I have some examples of hand fashioned butchering knives that exceed .25 inch, but these are chiefly lamb splitters and such. Most are really too heavy and unwieldy for extended work unless one might have lifted weights in the past. Modern processing involves saws.

There are all kinds of knives that slice today. In fact, they are the most produced blades of any kind extant. We found out long ago that thinner knives provide a more practical edge for the average guy doing average tasks. This does not mean that I am trading my beloved Basic 9, but, you can bet the farm that my #8 Opinel is close at hand.

The super built tanks of today likely reflect a maker/brand that does not want to delve into replacement issues. In any event, it takes all kinds in this odd business of collecting knives that most of us will never use.
 
I think the term survival knives started in the 70's and 80's and were so popular that so many knives were produced using 1/4" stock. Every kid and knife aficionado had to own one or a few. I feel sure that the fighting knives such as produced by Randall always used 1/4" stock and they were never slicey knives nor intended to be so. Knives just became more diversified and many lost the thin cutting performance associated with slicing.... except for kitchen knives. (They do however come in all sizes and shapes these days.) Things have been moving back toward a more practical slicey blade thickness slowly.

The flippers, AO's, and so forth I think pretty much needed to use a thicker bar steel. But even those are moving back toward more slicey designs. The knife world is kind of fun.
 
Yeah, Rambo - First Blood, the original came out in 1982, that's definitely when I noticed an upswing in the survival knife market(ing) & popularity
 
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