Why are blades rarely slicey?

[Dean51]

Good point about zip ties - you want a beefier blade for that. Not something I do very often with a knife. fwiw, I prefer to twist them off with pliers. Much easier than cutting 90% of the time.

errr. . . might want to do further investigation e.g.
This knife makes ALL OTHERS look silly when it comes to cutting wire ties. The geometry is like 10° per side (I kept reprofiling it until it was the ultimate slicer for cutting precision ends on soft rubber tubing ; oil the blade and tubing first) turns out it cuts wire ties like magic.
Strange but true.
I just measured the spine = 1.8mm ~ 1/16inch
Just when one thinks they know how the universe works . . . BAMMO . . . right ?
View attachment 900813

I've cut a lot of zip ties with a traditional, never dawned on me I needed a beefier blade.

 

[RipD]

You probably don't need one. Every time I cut one with a blade that'st think behind the edge I worry. So I prefer a more stout blade for hard, thick, plastic. There are zip ties, and there are zip ties. I'm talking about the heavy ones.

 

[mt666tm]

There are lots of 'slicey' options for folders out there.

If there is a particular knife you like that has a beefy blade and you wish it were a slicer then just have the blade re-ground. Problem solved. Granted that means you have to spend more $ on top of the cost of the knife, but you gotta spend money to ... spend money... nobody ever said this game was easy, or cheap.

 

[Hickory n steel]

So how many Amazon packages and how much packing tape and plastic sheeting did they cut in the 1800s? And how much livestock do you castrate with the spey blade on your trusty traditionals?

As for the digression into 'best tool', a folding knife is pretty much never the best tool for the job. It's a jack of all trades, master of none by nature.

I was thinking more like the 1940's - 1950's, most daily cutting tasks werent much different than they are today yet the thin slicy blades were more than adequate.

Btw a folding knife can most certainly be the best tool for the job, if the job is to cut stuff and fold away safely and comfortably in your pocket for later use.

 

[Dean51]

Because this thread needs more pictures.

 

[Insipid Moniker]

I was thinking more like the 1940's - 1950's, most daily cutting tasks werent much different than they are today yet the thin slicy blades were more than adequate.

Btw a folding knife can most certainly be the best tool for the job, if the job is to cut stuff and fold away safely and comfortably in your pocket for later use.

And my answer still stands in regards to that time period. Synthetic materials cut differently, recieving packages is often a daily occurrence and tasks that were normal then are downright unusual now. Society changes and cutting needs change with it. And note, I'm not arguing that the cutting needs of today require more than a traditional, simply that many of the most common ones require little more than a sharp edge, which means the geometry of the primary grind is devalued.

The second part of your answer simply reinforces my point. We carry folding knives because they're convenient, not because they're ever ideal for the task at hand. Any media you cut or cut you make almost certainly has a specialized tool that would perform better than any pocket knife.

 

[22-rimfire]

You probably don't need one. Every time I cut one with a blade that'st think behind the edge I worry. So I prefer a more stout blade for hard, thick, plastic. There are zip ties, and there are zip ties. I'm talking about the heavy ones.

There are. I use a pair of wire cutting pliers to cut them. A lot easier than a knife anyway. I only use a knife when I have no other options available to me without a lot of effort.

 

[Todd21969]

I was thinking more like the 1940's - 1950's, most daily cutting tasks werent much different than they are today yet the thin slicy blades were more than adequate.

Btw a folding knife can most certainly be the best tool for the job, if the job is to cut stuff and fold away safely and comfortably in your pocket for later use.

Please tell.me more about how my thin slicy slipjoints handled all my cutting needs before thicker, pocket clipped, one hand openers became locally available in the late 80's.

This small town country kid carried a non-slicy fixed blade with his splijoint. Even all through high school. Try that in todays society.

 

[22-rimfire]

Please tell.me more about how my thin slicy slipjoints handled all my cutting needs before thicker, pocket clipped, one hand openers became locally available in the late 80's.

This small town country kid carried a non-slicy fixed blade with his splijoint. Even all through high school. Try that in todays society.

What cutting needs did you have that a traditional slip joint wouldn't be sufficient? What did you need a fixed blade for in high school?

 

[Todd21969]

The same stuff I use a modern locking folder for today.

I take it you have never needed to make piercing cuts through thick material?

 

[stabman]

My gripe is when people try and portray users of "traditional" pattern knives as fully educated, "never abuse the tool" knife users.

Have you ever gone looking to buy a used traditional knife? An old one that was actually used?
Have you noticed how many knives you pass up because of the broken tips from prying that many exhibit?

I will gladly admit that regular old pocketknives got used, and got used hard.
I will not pretend that they only got used for "proper" cutting tasks.
A whole bunch of them got used hard for everything, including prying, then got tossed when they broke.
Or got ground into screwdriver tips.
Or "re-tipped" into whatever funky shape they ended up being.

I have walked into pawn shops a number of times and walked out with nothing, because there was not a single traditional pattern knife with an intact tip, or because they wanted a whole bunch of money for one that did. "This knife is really nice; you notice how it still has its original tip?"

 

[22-rimfire]

I take it you have never needed to make piercing cuts through thick material?

Thick is the operable word here and I didn't need to make piercing cuts during high school with a fixed blade that I recall. That said I prefer a pointy folder for precisely this purpose. But it depends on just how thick you're talking about.

 

[miso2]

What makes a blade "slicey"?
Possible suspects.

1. Edge angle.
2. Thickness behind the edge bevel.
3. Primary bevel grind angle. Supposedly shallower is better.
4. Grind height (or blade height).
5. Blade stock thickness.


Below is an illustration of the blade profiles of some commercial knives.
From best to worst in my subjective scale (there are ties, Opinel and GEC, and PM2 and Sebenza).




In terms of 3 and 5, Manix 2 LW is better than PM2 and Sebenza, but not a better slicer to me.
Stretch 2 is quite similar in 4 and 5 to Manix with a steeper primary bevel (3) yet a way better slicer at the same edge angle (1).

Spydiechef is even better than Stretch and has a narrower thickness behind the edge bevel (2).

Regarding the grind height or blade height (4), below is the comparison of GEC and a custom knife with similar profiles except 4.
GEC is a better slicer to me.

 

[FullMetalJackass]

Uh.
Get Emerson's and Benchmade and Spydercos and Cold Steel, and many many more, favor the hollow grind and enjoy the slices!
Knives, they cut in 2018. I would travel back in time for many reasons, but I'd definitely carry my modern blades with me.

 

[Todd21969]

Thick is the operable word here and I didn't need to make piercing cuts during high school with a fixed blade that I recall.

Your pretty hung up on the word need. Sorry to tell you "need" isn't "needed" to explain why fixed blades were commonly seen in my school.

They were legal and socially acceptable in my town. Just like the shotguns and rifles in window racks in the parking lot.

I am happy that you have never needed anything more than a slipjoint in your everyday life.

 

[Wowbagger]

@OddBlade Hollow grinds cut very well but for slicing through material with the entire blade I feel like the shoulders of a hollow grind create some drag. I still prefer a full flat grind.

haha and beyond that fact the hollow causes one to cut a curved "slice". Every time I cut up an apple with one of my Case Trappers I can put the slice down on the cutting board and it has a hollow and the main body of the apple is convex.

 

[22-rimfire]

Your pretty hung up on the word need. Sorry to tell you "need" isn't "needed" to explain why fixed blades were commonly seen in my school.

They were legal and socially acceptable in my town. Just like the shotguns and rifles in window racks in the parking lot.

I am happy that you have never needed anything more than a slipjoint in your everyday life.

I honestly never have needed anything more than a slip joint for 95% of the cutting that needs to be done with a knife and that includes piercing things that are reasonable knife tasks. That is still the case for cutting things. But need has little to do with it. With a slip joint, you just have to be careful piecing things.

Added: I was pretty hung up on the word "thick" which is why I bolded it. Need is relative. But as I stated above, I never needed a fixed blade in high school for much of anything including hunting. My take is that you carried the fixed blade because you felt you could. I personally wouldn't have made that choice at age 14-18 unless it was mostly knife jewelry. Really didn't cut much of anything other than stakes trapping and skinning game which I didn't do at high school.

 

[Hickory n steel]

My gripe is when people try and portray users of "traditional" pattern knives as fully educated, "never abuse the tool" knife users.

Have you ever gone looking to buy a used traditional knife? An old one that was actually used?
Have you noticed how many knives you pass up because of the broken tips from prying that many exhibit?

I will gladly admit that regular old pocketknives got used, and got used hard.
I will not pretend that they only got used for "proper" cutting tasks.
A whole bunch of them got used hard for everything, including prying, then got tossed when they broke.
Or got ground into screwdriver tips.
Or "re-tipped" into whatever funky shape they ended up being.

I have walked into pawn shops a number of times and walked out with nothing, because there was not a single traditional pattern knife with an intact tip, or because they wanted a whole bunch of money for one that did. "This knife is really nice; you notice how it still has its original tip?"

Definitely, I would've picked up more vintage knives I've come across if they werent broken or ground to nothing.
From prying, kids throwing them, general abuse.

 

[22-rimfire]

Definitely, I would've picked up more vintage knives I've come across if they werent broken or ground to nothing.
From prying, kids throwing them, general abuse.

I never see all of these broken or ground to nothing knives in pawn shops. We must frequent different shops. That said, I find it really boring to root through a big pile of knives at a pawn shop. I don't see many bargains. What I see is a lot of Chinese junk.

 

[Wowbagger]

I'm sorry but the PM2 is kind of slicey, but really sucks at peeling fruit and some other tasks because of the tall blade. No knife is perfect for all jobs. There's room for all types of knives in a collection or EDC rotation. We all need to get off our high horses and just buy what we like.

I honestly haven't tried pealing much with the Para although I think the handle is what is not so conducive to pealing; hard to grip like this and rotate accurately . . . the Ti Lite handle is good for that grip. (That's a Ti Lite IV that I shortened the blade on. Also Full Flat ground and thin)


It's not a Para 2 but here is an old photo of when I first got my Ouroboros. A wide blade that is at least capable of what you ask.



YES A WIDE BLADE IS NEVER MY FIRST CHOICE.
In a folder anyway.
My fave is long and narrow like the Ti Lite shown below. FF 1.9mm thick.