Why are the chisel ground Emersons ground on the "wrong" side?

[Bumppo]

I do not know what a chisel grind on a miltary/ police combat/ tactical knife is for.

I do know that if you are right handed and hold your left grind chisel edged sheepsfoot blade in your left hand, you will get a nice, clean cut through your rope or line when you whack it with your baton. Other edge styles will result in a slightly less than perfect vertical cut.

Most of the utility chisel ground blades were beveled on the left because most people will use their right hand to baton with. Chefs knives are beveled the opposit way because the Chefs are also mostly right handed, but in their case, they will hold the food stuff steady with their left hand. the chisel edge will guide the food away from the bulk, so it does not fold back on itself and get double cut.

 

[beluga]

The answer is simple....We are not making chef's knives. Our knives are hard knives meant for hard users. We do not cut many tomatoes. Our tests and those of a major government agency determined that there was no difference between right and left side grinds for use as a tool or weapon. The left side was chosen for purposes of visual cue and reference. [Top Of Page]

that statement above was taken from EKI website.

i just don't understand why he keeps insisting that his knives are hard use knives and so on. so, hard used knives cannot do regular works ? so, hard used knives shouldn't cut tomatoes ? so, hard use knives shouldn't be used as kitchen knives ?

IMHO, if the blades are ground on the correct side, they can be both hard use knives and be utilitarian knives at the same time. that'd be cool, huh ?

afterall, he mentioned "Our tests and those of a major government agency determined that there was no difference between right and left side grinds for use as a tool or weapon."

if no differences, why don't they change the grind ? weird

 

[Lycosa]

Dude--- If Emerson knives are not your thing, seek.
You have lots to choose from.

 

[jbravo]

Splat, just as a heads-up, nobody calls him "Ernie." And I can say this after having hung out with him for a while. Even among friends, it's "Ernest."

I've only known him since 1995, and I've never called him anything other than Ernie...

 

[Lycosa]

Ernest is just... classy.

 

[stabman]

Splat, just as a heads-up, nobody calls him "Ernie." And I can say this after having hung out with him for a while. Even among friends, it's "Ernest."

Ernie does it his way for looks.

 

[The Government]

Even if it is for looks, I can still find function in it.

When I carve a stick, for example, just like everyone else, I hold the blade over the stick and shear off strips of wood. This puts the bevels of an emerson facing downward -just like a chisel would function if I were chiseling wood off of the stick.

It works the same way as a chisel (bevel down). I don't see the problem.

If it had a true zero chisel grind it would actually be a chisel. (that is a mod I am looking forward to -probably on a 7B)

 

[IGotStabbed]

So, to check for myself, I did a rough cross section sketch of a chisel grind and double grind on Solid Works and added dimensions to check the thickness of the cross sections. This is what I came up with:

The cross-sectional thicknesses are the same. So far, to me, cost seems to be the most logical explanation for the chisel grind; one grind vs. two grinds.

Oh, I did check the angles of the grinds and yes, it does appear that the chisel grind really is more acute than the double grind.

Someone needs to learn some math if you think this diagram is correct.

 

[pvicenzi]

I would prefer the blades ground the other way, but the arguments placed here make me think it's meerly a matter of philosophy. Are they really ground on the wrong side if so many knowledgable people like them the way they are?

 

[SIFU1A]

FWIW i have edc'd RH CG's (ie BM stryker for one) and LH CG's (ie EKI CQC7 tanto) and it doesnt make a whole heck of a lotta differernce to me, i am RH FWIW, i suppose the RH MIGHT possibly be a tad better but its not that big of a deal i dont think, if ya dont like CG's to begin with going from LH to RH isnt gonna make ya happier, its just not that much different..

if ya just have to have a RH grind then look elsewhere because all the EKI's are ground LH.

 

[Buffalohump]

Personally I dont understand the popularity of the 7 in the Emerson line-up. To my mind the 11 or the 8 or the 13 are far better options.

The 11 is probably the quintessential Emerson and yet the 7 has grabbed this position.

This is probably because most people prefer a smaller knife, but it doesn't make sense. If you really want a knife for fighting, which the 7 supposedly is, then you want the biggest knife possible.

Which brings us back to the 11.

 

[SIFU1A]

really the quintessential emerson is the CQC6, which is a tanto blade, so imho a lotta folks think tanto when they think emerson, since the '6 is custom only i guess they go for the '7.

i also prefer the '13, '8 and the '12 (my personal fav) to the '7(and the SOCFK, and the P-tac, and the.....), the '11 is ok but isnt one of my big favs, not that anything is wrong with it, i dont know about the '11 being the quintessential though.

 

[jay2pointoh]

I am curious to the advantage of chisel over v grind. Why did Emerson choose the former? Just curious.

Edit: Just saw that diagram.

 

[desmobob]

Someone needs to learn some math if you think this diagram is correct.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks it's wrong....

I wasn't going to comment because I don't have the geometry skills to explain it properly, but I'm sure the two measurements on the left side of the diagram should be greater than 1.00 and 1.53.

And for the record, I hate chisel grind knives for utility purposes. So for utility purposes, I carry other types.

Stay sharp,
desmobob

 

[desmobob]

I am a Cream Ale man when I tip a beer. Local brew.

I grew up on that stuff. We called Genny Cream Ales "screamers" when I was a teenager. I never see it around these days.... (I'm on the eastern edge of the state, right on the VT border.)

Let's turn this pointless chisel grind thread into a Genesee Brewing Company beer thread!

Stay sharp,
desmobob

 

[Buffalohump]

I guess I should have said for ME the 11 is the Emerson to beat.

I would agree that the 6 is the one that started it all and I would wager that Richard Marcinko should take some credit for that, but I just feel of all the Emersons the 11 is the most successful design. It also has the SpecWar handle which I feel is Emersons greatest achievement as a designer. Its an amazing design for a hard-use folder because it really doesnt have any weaknesses. Perhaps the 8 is the closest in terms of a foolproof design. I had the 12 but I actually prefer Emerson linerlocks.

really the quintessential emerson is the CQC6, which is a tanto blade, so imho a lotta folks think tanto when they think emerson, since the '6 is custom only i guess they go for the '7.

i also prefer the '13, '8 and the '12 (my personal fav) to the '7(and the SOCFK, and the P-tac, and the.....), the '11 is ok but isnt one of my big favs, not that anything is wrong with it, i dont know about the '11 being the quintessential though.

 

[Lycosa]

The CQC7 is without a doubt one of the finest folder designs EVER.
A 3" blade is all you need.

 

[SIFU1A]

IIRC ernie grinds his stuff like he does because he thinks its a more effective grind for self defense, it holds an edge better, is less likely to chip and is easier to sharpen.

do i agree? i dont know, probably not, i can see where it would be as good but i dont know about being better, what do i know though lol?

i do know any of his knives will work just fine for most anything, sure there are probably better knives for skinning game (but a bud uses an '8 for that job and has for yrs) better knives for whittling and fine cutting, better knives for utility use (though i carried an SOCFK tanto for just that for over a yr and it did just fine and have edc'd emersons almost daily for the past 12 or 15 yrs and have never even once thought "gee i wish i had my std "V" grind whatever vs the '12 or '13 i usually have) but imho as far as a self defense folder the emersons are the top choice, more due to the great handle ergos than the grind though.

 

[dl351]

Someone needs to learn some math if you think this diagram is correct.

Uh, I was going through and deleting old bookmarks on my computer and found this one. I wouldn't have brought it up again, but I feel the need to defend myself when I'm told that I am wrong.

The diagram is correct. Period. They are two triangles of equal thickness and height that represent the chisel and double ground blades. Thickness measurements were taken at equal heights, and the thicknesses are the same! I did not just draw this up on paint brush. The diagrams were drawn up on a engineering solid modeling program. The program, not me, put all of the dimensions in. Whether or not anyone thinks the numbers should be different does not change that they are not different.

The one thing I did realize as I was looking over this thread is that if the edge bevels are ground at the same angles, the chisel one would have a total angle that is half that of the double bevel, thus making it slice better.

 

[Lycosa]

"Slice better." Final answer. :thumbup: