Why carry a large knife and an axe?

I'm an experienced bushman from Australia. I live in a tropical region, but have worked with the army etc from the snow country in Tasmania, all the way to the torres strait islands and out into the to the western deserts.

I'll tell you what i think, but bare in mind its just one man's opinion, and you are entitled to you own opinion too!

There's no point in carrying a large knife if you are also carrying an axe or a machete - UNLESS you plan to be skinning large game or plan on stabbing someone in the liver...

The most handy tool you can have in the bush around here is a machete followed closely by an hatchet (small axe)- depends on the vegetation but i almost always choose the machete..

Personally when i go bush I carry a thin metal 12" machete which we call locally a 'cane knife', (which is a machete used for cutting sugar cane). I keep this machete in my rucksack. On my person I carry small belt kit of survival gear (a hangover from my army days), and in this belt kit i carry a multitool with nice big pliers and a fixed blade sheath knife that has a 3.5 inch drop point blade with a nice curve for skinning. The knife is 8 inches overall so it's got more handle than blade and it's all I need. I tend to use the machete 95% of the time and just use the sheath knife for killing and skinning, so i keep the sheath knife razor sharp on most of the blade except toward the handle where I keep the edge a little duller, and I use that part of the blade for whittling if the need arises.

I've often dug for water and there is no way in hell I'd use my knife or machete for that; cut a digging stick, it is quick and a much better tool for the job. In the snow country i tried using a machete once and realised I was an idiot; if you're going into snow country ALWAYS carry a small aluminium snow shovel. It may just save your life so I'd rate the shovel as MUCH more important than a machete or knife..

On my truck i carry a large axe, a long handled shovel and a pick axe, and if I'm going anywhere 'interesting' I carry the chainsaw as well just for cutting up fallen trees on the road.
 
bigox said:
I just read this tread. http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=257365&page=2 I would like to know why some people carry large knife (6" and up) and another large knife axe or hatchet? If I had to bet my life on one tool it would be a good Ratwiler sized knife but I would rather team up my tools. If you are carrying several tools what can't be done with a 3"-5" knife and a hatchet or axe?
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Well I trudged through 5 pages of mostly a pissing contest :yawn: ...each side had one or more good points.:jerkit: I thought I might try and bring the initial post to end to remind you guys why we are here.

Thanks Wolfmother for just laying out some experience and words for what works in your area, some others did the same but it got lost in all the piss.

So anybody, can you think of anything that can't be done by those two tools?
 
>>So anybody, can you think of anything that can't be done by those two tools?
only one thing; neurosurgery... ;)
 
wolfmother said:
I'm an experienced bushman from Australia. I live in a tropical region, but have worked with the army etc from the snow country in Tasmania, all the way to the torres strait islands and out into the to the western deserts.
...
There's no point in carrying a large knife
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Crocodile Dundee, who's the best bushman ever always carried an huge knife.

You're a fake! :D
 
Wolfmother, (welcome to the board BTW)

I’m interested in your cane knife. Here in Brazil they use a thin metal machete-like “knife” to cut cane. It has a longish wood handle and a wide, square ended blade, sometimes with a hook on the back.

I haven’t tried one of these yet in the bush. They’re not expensive, but I’ve never seen anything resembling a sheath for them. The ones here look like they’d slice through soft stuff like nothing but how do they do on harder wood?

I dig all the time with my ($5-$8) Tramontina machetes. I’m not talking foxholes, but I have no qualms about chopping out roots, stumps, and tufts of grass, or digging out the edges of rocks where I’m going to sleep. At high altitude here you often have to dig for water and there are very few trees to make a digging stick. It’s a personal preference, but I’d rather re-sharpen my machete than hack up one of the few trees that has managed to eek out an existence up there. The high altitude seeps here are usually in wet sand mixed with gravel. The wide blade of the machete scoops them out nicely. We don’t have a snow zone.

Here in central Brazil they make great use of the termite mounds as fireplaces. In the dry season the grasslands in the cerrado are a tinderbox. In the rainy season a sudden downpour could easily drown out a fire. There’s a dozen ways to carve up a cubic meter or two of termite mound to make a fireplace in any configuration that you want. I’ve done this with digging sticks (blunt easily) and the machete (dulls the front sweep). Actually both come in handy as the machete often does not have the reach for digging the chimney hole. As long as you only chip away at them with the point, the sweet spot on the blade rarely gets dulled. The damage is nothing a few minutes with a file won’t fix. I find dry bamboo will damage a Tramontina worse than digging.

When I take groups out for my Wilderness 101 basic skills course I give each guy a 14 or 16-inch Tramontina and a Mora. I was recently given six Moras of various types as a Christmas present from some friends in Sweden so these will be the official loaner knives for the next few years.

Over the past year I’ve had lots of opportunities to evaluate the “one big knife” vs. “machete and small fixed blade” combo. (BK-7 vs. Machete/Mora) The machete and small fixed blade allows for a wider range of functions, costs half as much, and weighs about the same. The two blades are optimized for their functions rather than the BK-7 being pressed into duty for large or small tasks. Mac
 
wolfmother said:
There's no point in carrying a large knife if you are also carrying an axe or a machete ...
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A machete is a long knife, carrying a parang with a machete is generally redundant unless you are using the situation for gear evaluation, even more so if you also have an axe and small blade. Generally most enviroments have a long blade of choice, khukuri, bolo, barong, machete, etc., rarely would someone pack a khukuri and a bolo, just like you would not carry a 710 and Military. The origional question was carrying a long blade, machete or otherwise, in addition to a small blade and axe in *any* enviroment, not in one specific one, you can easily pick an enviroment where any of all of them are not overly useful.

I've often dug for water and there is no way in hell I'd use my knife or machete for that; cut a digging stick, it is quick and a much better tool for the job.
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Locally the soil can be too rooty in places so you need to cut the wood out of the way, and other times it is so hard or frozen that it is difficult to dig with a piece of wood. Cutting sods can also make excellent insulation very quickly and is much faster with a knife than a stick, similar with bog.

In the snow country i tried using a machete once and realised I was an idiot; if you're going into snow country ALWAYS carry a small aluminium snow shovel. It may just save your life so I'd rate the shovel as MUCH more important than a machete or knife.
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You can even get decent multi-purpose shovels which can function as a knife/axe. Cold Steel makes a decent one, the initial edges are horrible, but once sharpened it is decent enough and digs a lot better than any knife, though chops about as bad as a knife digs.

I would prefer something with a much longer handle for digging a lot of snow. They should make survival shovel heads with tomahawk flared eyes which you could easily replace or fit with a longer handle if the need arose.

I have been thinking about a collapsable lightweight snow shovel but the plastic ones are not durable enough around here you can actually readily break them in heavy snow so you end up having to only use a fraction of their ability or they will crack.

-Cliff
 
Cliff Stamp said:
...
I would prefer something with a much longer handle for digging a lot of snow. They should make survival shovel heads with tomahawk flared eyes which you could easily replace or fit with a longer handle if the need arose.
-Cliff
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Now that's a pretty good idea.

Cliff Stamp said:
I have been thinking about a collapsable lightweight snow shovel but the plastic ones are not durable enough around here you can actually readily break them in heavy snow so you end up having to only use a fraction of their ability or they will crack.

-Cliff
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Most of the snow shovels on hte market seem to be pretty crappy. Not an issue for me these days (no snow to speak of here) but living in Chicago I went thrugh a few, and never found a really good one that didn't weigh a ton.

Pat
 
I've carried about everything in the Marines as well as in various wildernesses of North America, backpacking, rock climbing and engaging in general recreation. The remoteness of the location has never been an impediment for me.

If I'm in a survival situation and I could only have one blade, it would most probably be a bowie type large knife.

It's simply more versatile, and more of a jack of all trades. It will perform the work of smaller knives, but will also make a decent draw knife, passable chopper etc... in a pinch.

Would it be better to have 5 different specialized tools? Sure, they'd make the work easier. But that's not the question. Lets' remember we're trying to survive, not build a ski lodge.

Again let me state in a survival situation, any knife is better than no knife. And the only advantage a folder possesses over a larger fixed blade is portability and concealability. Attributes not likely to be of much use in a backcountry survival situation short of appropriate gear and shelter.

That being said while backpacking or climbing, I practiced a philosophy of going ultra light. Therefore I frequently only carried a swiss army knife. Trips were always very well planned, and my navigational skills match my survival ones.

Therefore like the old saying, I'd rather have it and not need it, than need it and not have it. And learn to use what you're most likely to have, whatever that is.

The best survival outcome is always the one in which you're smart enough to avoid.

And a wrist compass, map, a small folder, and the skills to use them is a much better survival kit and strategy than a legend in his own mind sporting a fixed bladed bad boy knife bumbling through the backcountry.
 
Outdoors said:
Most of the snow shovels on hte market seem to be pretty crappy.
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There are some decent plastic ones locally with decent ergo handles, wet snow can stick to them though and it gets useless fast, and you can break them if you load them fully. Try moving three feet of snow about ten feet wide by several hundred feet long, efficiency is a major concern. At times last year I had to take a machete and cut the top off before I could shovel it, that was fun. I wonder if you could make a really lightweight Beta-Ti shovel with a sharpened edge, the cost would likely be the same as paying someone to plow your lane the entire winter though.

-Cliff
 
I coat my metal snow shovel blades with paste car wax to prevent snow from sticking. It's not perfect, but helps immeasureably.
 
Thomas Linton said:
I refer to backpacking because I am, unlike Skammer, not a current SAR member and am most likely to meet a wilderness survival situation while backpacking.
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Thomas for the record I was not ragging on you there.

Skam
 
pict

>>I’m interested in your cane knife. Here in Brazil they use a thin metal machete-like “knife” to cut cane. It has a longish wood handle and a wide, square ended blade, sometimes with a hook on the back.

yes pict thats the one- they come with either with a short handle (one handed) or a long handle for double handed. I prefer the short handle. I'll take a pic today or tomorrow and upload it.

>>I haven’t tried one of these yet in the bush. They’re not expensive, but I’ve never seen anything resembling a sheath for them. The ones here look like they’d slice through soft stuff like nothing but how do they do on harder wood?

if you know how to chop wood properly then they are just great; they chop hard wood, no probs.
 
Neanderthal said:
I coat my metal snow shovel blades with paste car wax to prevent snow from sticking.
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I have tried some spray on's but found they come off quickly, a thicker wax or paste should be much better, thanks for the tip, it isn't like I won't have a chance to check.

-Cliff
 
I'll have to pick one of those up and pack it along on my next trip. I found a great bamboo grove along a stream. I'm planning to take my daughter on a bamboo camp soon.

Those paper thin cane knives always seemed to me like they'd buckle and warp on hardwoods. I've seen how they go through sugar cane. Here they cost R$10, about $4.50 US. Mac
 
the "paper thin" cane knife is much more effective for cutting hard wood than a normal machete. You might be pleasantly surprised!
 
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