Why is it ok? (actions of particular moderators)

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Les Robertson said:
To Prof,




First, I did write the book on collecting custom knives....the only one...let me repeat that...the only one that has ever been written. But not sure what an enima is?

Second, Im with you I have limited my time in the Custom Forum. Because as you say there are too many people there who have owned knives from $100 to Loveless knives and think because they have invested some time and money. That makes them some kind of expert. Perhaps that individual could use two things...first a dictionary and second an enema.

While I'm not in the Custom forum very much anymore. I know I appreciate you staying out of there.

You and others fail to realize that no matter the forum or the walk of life there are always "Upper Tier" individuals. What puts them in that Upper-Tier is their education of the subject matter and their decades of experience. They are in the Upper Tier not because they are smarter than you but because they posses superior knowledge of the subject matter at hand.

If you have an issue with those people than more than likely the issue is actually yours.

Remember....everyone pities the weak....jealousy has to be earned.
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Wow, Les, I wasn't directing my post specifically at you either, but I guess the shoe fit.

Your post sums up the point of mine perfectly. Thanks. It's not about emparting knowlege (hope I spelled that wright!) -- that's what this site is all about, it's about doing so without coming across like a d!ck. Why some people can't be civil is beyond me, sorta like japanese cartoons, emo, steampunk, and people who get out of the shower to pee.

Prof.
 
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I appreciate Les and I appreciate Professor. I appreciate beautiful knives, honesty and hard work. I appreciate most (but not everyone) in the custom knife community….because without all these people involved there would be no community.

To me the primary issue is one of attempted and forced censorship. There are many moderators, knifemakers and collectors that wish that I would not post a critique or negative comments. I have a hard time seeing how that benefits anyone…we are not all the same people, don’t have the same writing styles, thoughts, perceptions or experiences….so I do my thing, and the amount of positive responses and more importantly improvement in maker output leads me to believe that this is a net gain.

It is my hope that it helps more than it hurts…it isn’t ego, it is a sincere effort to “pay it forward”, to honor those that took the time to help me when I started collecting back in late 1985. They were some crusty and opinionated makers and collectors and the method of delivery sort of stuck with me. You all know that I have softened my approach, because many people just don’t handle the direct delivery as intended....listen to it, consider it, accept it or reject it.

That said, unless I am breaking rules, it really isn’t up to any one individual to try to jam a modification of style down my throat…especially a SuperModerator publicly…..and it will not be met by my acceptance or appreciation....there are other ways to approach it....same could be said for my style and if you look at it in 2003 and now in 2012, you will see that it is more sensitive to feelings, and more directed at producing a net win for everyone...but even I relapse into childishness very occasionally.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
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Kohai999 said:
That said, unless I am breaking rules, it really isn’t up to any one individual to try to jam a modification of style down my throat…especially a SuperModerator publicly…..and it will not be met by my acceptance or appreciation....there are other ways to approach it.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
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Agreed...and that is where the "report button" can be used to good effect before any given thread is steered off course by off-topic bickering.

You see, "kumbaya" isn't just a state of mind...it's a real place. (Ducking and running while the getting is good. ;))
 
Blues said:
Agreed...and that is where the "report button" can be used to good effect before any given thread is steered off course by off-topic bickering.

You see, "kumbaya" isn't just a state of mind...it's a real place. (Ducking and running while the getting is good. ;))
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No need to duck, Elliott, it's just not something I ever considered before.

I'm not a "dial 911" kind of guy....I'm a "stand and deliver, go toe to toe" type of personality.....but I can recognize how this is harmful vis a vis thread drift, and will heed your sage wisdom.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
Sage wisdom? Now who's administering enemas? :p

Seriously, STeven, speaking for myself I appreciate your willingness to work with us on this. Being a "Type A" myself, I understand the natural instinct to fire back while the target is in sight.
Hell, even Les and I are corresponding with friendly emails. :eek:

When you feel that this topic has exhausted itself, feel free to close it. (Not a suggestion, just putting it out there.)
 
Blues said:
When you feel that this topic has exhausted itself, feel free to close it. (Not a suggestion, just putting it out there.)
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I will, Elliott, I'm kind of waiting so that the resolution can be posted as well....Like a "for sale" thread, but we'll leave the "prices" up so that future "buyers" have something to refer to.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
It seems like there is a level of distain for the customs section from people who have been burned or think the forum is too "serious" or "harsh."

Like a new student walking into a dojo, should the student be very careful and respectful in the presence of the black belts? Yes.
Should the elders be accepting and seek to guide and impart wisdom on a young student? We should hope so.
Nothing I've seen from the elders rattles my enjoyment of browsing the customs section.

The custom and handmade section should have less moderation and be reserved for big boy talk, this is a maker's life work and collectors and dealers major investments, it should be passionate and intense like the blades themselves. It seems to me that more makers don't post there because they are intensely aware of the level of craftsmanship on display. Is that a bad thing?
Is elite a bad word?:rolleyes:

Moderating is an exhausting task, and after slapping the kids around who need to be slapped around--- some others fall victim.
Please keep parts of the site suitable for adults and adult conversation, with the requisite level of moderating.
 
Should those who proclaim themselves "experts" be held to a higher standard when offering advice and critiques of anothers work?
One would hope so. After all they are judging a persons hard work and efforts. They have nothing at stake in their critique, or at least far less than those they are taking upon themselves to judge.
Should the same "experts" be able to take a critique of their efforts as well?
One would also hope so. Otherwise their efforts are nothing more than pompous observation.

The problem we have here is that some feel it is their "Right" to speak as they please without regard to others efforts or do so in a respectful manner with concise explanation as to why and the membership is expected to listen and learn.
When the shoe is on the other foot however...... There are private message implications of impropriety and abuse, Threats and threads in here and elsewhere. They are quick to point out failures in others while failing to see their own.
God help the person who should disagree with these people or tell them something they don't wish to hear.
They are fine taking someone to task publically, but should the same happen to them.......
They are quick to shout abuse when they are contacted with a simple warning, nevermind what their own writings contain in response.
These same people, that clique of people seem to relish in the attention they receive, while ignoring the larger part of the membership of that forum, much less the genre or knifemakers in general. That is why what you see in the custom & handmade forum is but a small sampling of the larger picture. One would easily come to the conclusion that the behaviors of these few people are not beneficial to that forum or the site as a whole.

As the infraction record shows, i have not been abusive in my power as moderator. In fact i've been more lenient than anything.... erring on the side of caution. I've only issued 2 infractions and 3 warnings to two of my accusors in this thread. They have received worse from other moderators here, but we do not see accusations and threads being publically made about them, now do we?
 
Karda:

The problem we have here is that some feel it is their "Right" to speak as they please without regard to others efforts or do so in a respectful manner with concise explanation as to why and the membership is expected to listen and learn.
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Exactly right...this is the main issue that the membership has with you. Obviously you can encapsulate it....but cannot adhere to it.

After all they are judging a persons hard work and efforts. They have nothing at stake in their critique, or at least far less than those they are taking upon themselves to judge.
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100% incorrect (your inferior knowledge of custom knives and the custom knife market is showing...even more than regular). The fact that those who are asked to critique and judge knives in competitions (which I have been doing for 20 years both in the US and Canada) are asked for a critique and or to be a judge because of their reputation. If your reputation is that you don't know what you are talking about then your status in the community will be tarnished.

STeven, Roger, Joe and others are constantly asked for their opinion and critiques of makers work. You will find their opinions with regularity in and of the Blade issues that features articles on "Who is Hot" or New makers to consider, etc. I have yet to have seen any of the magazines contact you for your opinion on any custom knife. No one seeks your opinion or critique of a custom knife. Why, because you don't have the knowledge or background to do so.

It is in fact members like you with little or no knowledge who have nothing to lose by giving a critique. As your opinion carries little or no weight in the custom knife community.

Because of your lack of knowledge in the area of custom knives it is in fact your comments that are pompous. Quite frankly if you weren't a moderator you wouldn't even attempt to post in the Custom Knife Forum. Although as a forum member you would have every right too.

That said it is probably best that you confine yourself to the HI Forum. Where your comments and insights will not be viewed filled with pomposity...but instead you will be the Subject Matter Expert...to the extent that a sales rep can be.
 
Here's my take - for whatever it may be worth.

In my estimation, being a moderator requires that you comport yourself with a certain decorum. If you know Gus - "Bastid" on the forums, then you know what I mean. I can be an abrasive combative jerk on occasion - and therefore would be a poor choice no doubt for a moderator - but even in those instances, which I hope are few and far between, a) I don't have the power to infract the target of my jerkishness, and b) I am still subject to oversight by actual moderators.

When a moderator decides to enter into the fray and engage in combative taunting, it is a different dynamic alltogether. Whether he chooses to actually issue an infraction or not, the dynamic is very different. The parties are not on equal footing. If some random jerk mouthes off at you at you in a parking lot, your options as to whether and how to respond are many. If that random jerk is a cop wearing a badge and a gun, your options are few. A good moderator - like a good cop - understands this. A bad moderator, like a bad cop, well, you remember the sherrif from 'Rambo' who didn't like the look of a long-haired Vietnam vet drifter walking into "his" town..... ? You get the picture.

I'm not sure a "report" button is always an answer - as the kind of forum bullying I am describing can take place within the technical confines of forum rules.
 
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I'd like to take a "stab" at this whole "self-proclaimed" expert thing....and it's not going to be about me.

I'm going to talk about Roger P. He is a professional living in Canada, and as he is want to, buys and uses custom knives. Bored with this pastoral pastime, he decided to take up occasional hunting with knifemaker Dan Farr, who somehow convinced Roger to make some knives with him. Roger designed them, forged them, heat treated them and finished them out...mostly by himself, the later models almost completely by himself. He turned down many offers to buy these knives. He writes about his experiences from time to time, gets paid for his articles, even speaks about various aspects of handmade knives and collecting when asked to.

He has never proclaimed that he is an expert at anything....although he is most certainly expert at a number of things....valuable, educationally intense things.

I say Roger P. is an expert on handmade knives, and his opinions have validity in the realm of handmade and custom knives. He is an expert not because I say so, but because the time, dedication, knowledge and effort that he has put into this dictates his expertise. He is as entrenched in it as anyone that I know and his reputation is on the line every time he types on BladeForums.

Roger is but one of many experts that regularly participate on BladeForums...and all that he asks for in return for regularly dispensing little nuggets of wisdom is that he not be messed with. It seems like a reasonable request, no?

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
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I don´t think this has very much to do with who knows how much about what knives , the mods and admin sets/enforce
the rules on how to behave/act , we are here as guests & if we don´t like the rules we are also free to leave.



1234,,,,,,,,,
 
Les Robertson said:
Karda:



Exactly right...this is the main issue that the membership has with you. Obviously you can encapsulate it....but cannot adhere to it.



100% incorrect (your inferior knowledge of custom knives and the custom knife market is showing...even more than regular). The fact that those who are asked to critique and judge knives in competitions (which I have been doing for 20 years both in the US and Canada) are asked for a critique and or to be a judge because of their reputation. If your reputation is that you don't know what you are talking about then your status in the community will be tarnished.

STeven, Roger, Joe and others are constantly asked for their opinion and critiques of makers work. You will find their opinions with regularity in and of the Blade issues that features articles on "Who is Hot" or New makers to consider, etc. I have yet to have seen any of the magazines contact you for your opinion on any custom knife. No one seeks your opinion or critique of a custom knife. Why, because you don't have the knowledge or background to do so.

It is in fact members like you with little or no knowledge who have nothing to lose by giving a critique. As your opinion carries little or no weight in the custom knife community.

Because of your lack of knowledge in the area of custom knives it is in fact your comments that are pompous. Quite frankly if you weren't a moderator you wouldn't even attempt to post in the Custom Knife Forum. Although as a forum member you would have every right too.

That said it is probably best that you confine yourself to the HI Forum. Where your comments and insights will not be viewed filled with pomposity...but instead you will be the Subject Matter Expert...to the extent that a sales rep can be.
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Wow again. And this from a non-paying member. Whoops, I started a sentence with "and." I am clearly out of my depth here. I'm gonna go warm up the shallow end where I belong.
 
1234 said:
I don´t think this has very much to do with who knows how much about what knives , the mods and admin sets/enforce
the rules on how to behave/act , we are here as guests & if we don´t like the rules we are also free to leave.1234,,,,,,,,,
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You may see yourself as a guest, as a fellow paying participant on BladeForums, the only way I would leave was if the 1) quality of discussion sucked so bad that it was not worth my time or b)I got banned.

Feel free to do what YOU want to do.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
Kohai999 said:
You may see yourself as a guest, as a fellow paying participant on BladeForums, the only way I would leave was if the 1) quality of discussion sucked so bad that it was not worth my time or b)I got banned.

Feel free to do what YOU want to do.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
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Your payment gives you no more rights to anything on this site than anyone else, it only grants you more account priveledges.
 
Steven !


Hmm,, does that mean the rules here don´t apply to you ?

I mean like you don´t have to follow them , and you are on a - I´ll say whatever I damn like here or be banned quest ?



1234,,,
 
Les Robertson said:
100% incorrect (your inferior knowledge of custom knives and the custom knife market is showing...even more than regular). The fact that those who are asked to critique and judge knives in competitions (which I have been doing for 20 years both in the US and Canada) are asked for a critique and or to be a judge because of their reputation. If your reputation is that you don't know what you are talking about then your status in the community will be tarnished.

STeven, Roger, Joe and others are constantly asked for their opinion and critiques of makers work. You will find their opinions with regularity in and of the Blade issues that features articles on "Who is Hot" or New makers to consider, etc. I have yet to have seen any of the magazines contact you for your opinion on any custom knife. No one seeks your opinion or critique of a custom knife. Why, because you don't have the knowledge or background to do so.

It is in fact members like you with little or no knowledge who have nothing to lose by giving a critique. As your opinion carries little or no weight in the custom knife community.

Because of your lack of knowledge in the area of custom knives it is in fact your comments that are pompous. Quite frankly if you weren't a moderator you wouldn't even attempt to post in the Custom Knife Forum. Although as a forum member you would have every right too.

That said it is probably best that you confine yourself to the HI Forum. Where your comments and insights will not be viewed filled with pomposity...but instead you will be the Subject Matter Expert...to the extent that a sales rep can be.
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Very nice of you to be so dismissive les, not that i expected any les of you.
Last i knew you did not make knives, but you sell them? Yet you seem to be quite disparaging of "salesmen" when it concerns me. To the point you do not understand that while made one at a time just like your "custom" makers do of the same pattern everytime, The H.I. khukuri could feasably be each considered a custom knife with each their own intricasies. Yet you call them "Shit". So much for tarnishing reputations.....hmmm?

Now you have the audacity to threaten me with harrassment of your own and tell me how you are going to "finish" this game.
Meanwhile my mouth or any action by me has not put you in a position of too many infraction points.
 
Relating to the cleaver thread - Just because you can rag on someones work doesn't mean you have to.

You can honestly critique a persons work without taking a dump on it.

50% of the posts were people saying it wasn't their cup of tea and highlighting the actual things they did not like.

Is there any reason there can't be mutual respect with honesty? No there isn't. It just takes a little self control..

I want to see new custom work and I enjoy discussion about the actual specifics of a knife and the way it was made. Its very valuable to me. To gauge the taste of knife makers out there and to help me get better at noticing limitations in design.

Since we are supposed to be a knife community of lovers of the blade, I would have thought this was a priority, especially among fellow makers but its not what I have seen and it is disappointing.

There have been plenty of people voicing their contempt for the custom knives area and I just don't know why they even visit it if they think that way. Please don't continue to ruin it for the people who enjoy it and will be supportive of a maker while giving their honest opinion.

I'm thankful of the mods here as this is the forum has some people that just seem to get a kick out of being mean to others.

You can justify this by saying "but this is anything goes" but it doesn't change the fact its just being mean.

I was so stoked to be part of this knife family of people who actually understand my love of the blade.

Lets not forget that's what this site is all about and how much benefit it can be to makers around the world...
 
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