Why is Spyderco so paranoid about automatic knives?

LorenzoL

LorenzoL

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Mar 9, 2009
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I went to a gun and knife show in Miami today, and I was amazed by the quantity of automatic knives available for sale, they were practically handing them out to kids.
So here is my question: why is Spyderco so paranoid about automatic knives, even including a warning inside the box saying that ownership of a "switchblade" is illegal by Federal Laws, regardless of the State laws?
I am not a lawyer, but my horse sense tells me this is not right, I mean, how can a citizen abide to State and Federal laws if those are in contradiction?
I once asked the question on the Spyderco Forum and got slammed, like many before me, by a pseudo-lawyer guy who claims that Federal laws always supersede local laws, but then why would States bother passing any kind of legislation if federal laws trump them.
So, any fellow forumites with strong legal backgrounds care to elaborate on the issue?
 
Here and here, and here are some links worth reading.

It seems that second link shows Obama doing more for State's rights than Bush ever did. Pretty neat.

From Wiki concerning auto's:

The Switchblade Act, (Pub.L. 85-623, 72 Stat. 562, enacted on August 12, 1958, and codified in 15 U.S.C. § 1241–1245), prohibits possession on Federal lands, Indian reservations, military bases, District of Columbia, Puerto Rico and other protectorates. It prohibits manufacture and sale of switchblades in interstate commerce.[6] The act was amended in 1986 to also restrict ballistic knives. Federal law controls Federal aspects only, and does not mandate prohibition within an individual state. It does say specified knives can not be mailed through the U.S.Postal Service, and provides penalty exceptions for other common carriers/shipping companies doing normal business.[6]

18 U.S.C. § 1716(g)(2) provides this summary:

Federal law prohibits shipment of automatic knives across state lines, with the following exceptions: Switchblade knives can be shipped: (1) to civilian or Armed Forces supply or procurement officers and employees of the Federal Government ordering, procuring, or purchasing such knives in connection with the activities of the Federal Government; (2) to supply or procurement officers of the National Guard, the Air National guard, or militia of a state, territory or the District of Columbia ordering, procuring, or purchasing such knives in the connection with the activities of such organization; (3) to supply or procurement officers or employees of the municipal government of the District of Columbia or the government of any State or Territory, or any county, city or other political subdivision of a State or Territory; procuring or purchasing such knives in connection with the activities of such government. (4) to manufacturers of such knives or bona fide dealers therein in connection with any shipment made pursuant of an order from any person designated in paragraphs (1), (2), and (3).

15 U.S.C. § 1244 provides, in summary: Knives can be shipped by common carrier, that sale, transportation or distribution, possession or introduction into interstate commerce of switchblade knives is authorized if it is pursuant to a contract with the armed forces or any member or employee thereof acting in the performance of his or her duty may possess switchblade knives and may have them shipped to him and sold to him or her. The possession and transportation upon his or her person of a switchblade knife or a blade 3 inches or less is authorized to any handicap individual who has the use of only one arm.
 
Autos are not banned by Federal law, only shipping them across state lines is restricted.

Some states are more auto-friendly than others. As a national manufacturer, Spyderco has enough legal sandtraps to avoid without adding Federal problems to them.

Nevertheless, Spyderco is manufacturing autos, but with limited distribution.
 
states may pass and enforce laws that are more restrictive than federal laws, but not they are not supposed to do the opposite even though it does happen.

in ca we have a medical marijuana exemption, which still violates federal law. federal law always trumps state/local laws, but someone needs to enforce them. it is my understanding that dea will no longer enforce the federal marijuana laws in california.
 
Esav Benyamin said:
Autos are not banned by Federal law, only shipping them across state lines is restricted.

Some states are more auto-friendly than others. As a national manufacturer, Spyderco has enough legal sandtraps to avoid without adding Federal problems to them.

Nevertheless, Spyderco is manufacturing autos, but with limited distribution.
Click to expand...

Esav, this is exactly what I thought. However, I photocopied a legal notice included with every automatic Spyderco (thanks to the dealer that let me borrow it).
Here is an excerpt:
"The Federal Switchblade Act states:

...

section 1243. Manufacture, sale, or possession within specific jurisdictions; penalty

Whoever, within any Territory or possession of the United States, ... , manufactures, sells, or possesses any switchblade knife, shall be fined not more than $2,000 or imprisoned not more than five years, or both."

This is why I am confused...:confused:
 
The answer to the original poster's question does not come from the letter of the law(s) but from the reality. Switchblade laws tend to be treated with "wink-wink, nudge-nudge" until some entity decides to make a big point of it for whatever reason. The big point is made by hitting someone successful like Spyderco rather than the pissants selling crappy imports at gun shows and flea markets. Therefor it behooves Spyderco to dot their I's and cross their T's when it comes to the fine letter of the law.
 
Lorenzo, don't confuse "territories and possessions" with states. They're different things.
 
But don't you think that if people knew they were breaking a Federal law, which is supposed to supersede a more permissive State law, a majority would be discouraged? I mean, I understand the "wink-wink, nudge-nudge" thing, but we are dealing with the Federal Government here, so this could still be used against you if somebody decided to suddenly open their eyes and stop looking the other way.
 
Autos are nice, but why give people the ammo needed to further restrict knife ownership? Like it or not, public perceptions affect our privilege to carry knives. If the masses think of an object as evil, it will become illegal. I say, don't fuel further restrictions by publicly using any knife that people find evil. Keep the auto's for professionals, handicapped people, and at home in collections. Showing them in public can only harm knife knuts. I applaud Spydercos strict policy on autos.
 
Autos in Kentucky are classified as a deadly weapon. Same as a firearm.
(By contrast they are illegal, period in Indiana)
They are not illegal to own or carry openly.
People possessing a Concealed Deadly Weapons Permit, can carry them concealed same as a handgun. They also can carry any knife, concealed.
Autos are commonly sold here in brick and mortar stores and at flea markets.
 
Not too long ago, Spyderco was hit with a pretty stiff fine over their butterfly knives. How paranoid would you be after paying a $250,000 fine? I commend them for having the guts to continue manufacturing autos, even if they only sell them to Military and Law Enforcement.
 
yablanowitz said:
Not too long ago, Spyderco was hit with a pretty stiff fine over their butterfly knives. How paranoid would you be after paying a $250,000 fine? I commend them for having the guts to continue manufacturing autos, even if they only sell them to Military and Law Enforcement.
Click to expand...

I understand your point (and Spyderco's). However, the law is the law whether you got hit badly or not. If people are legally entitled to buy automatic knives in their State, why scare them away?
 
If you cross a state line with possesion of an automatic knife and you arent in the exemption list you could go to jail if you are caught; Spyderco certainly does not want you to have their automatic if you get caught, and I cant blame them.

Also, do you think no one would ask questions about how a bunch of automatics manufactured in colorado made it into florida to be sold to inviduals not covered by the law? If youre just some random dude selling crappy ones no one cares, if you are a big operation you have much more scrutiny, thats just how it is.

My issue is the inconsistancy with the laws, honestly I believe that it ought to be all legal or all illegal and if you want to make an exception make it private sales directly to the military who can distribute them to active duty. Like in my state you can have autos as a "curios" which I understand means collectible, of course thats entirely up to the judge as to wether it being in your desk drawer qualifies it as such, which I personally think would depend on the judge, your record, and perhaps some other shenanigans that we know go on but I dont think are worth discussing here.
 
And how are you supposed to get those knives out there to the state where they are legal for anyone to own, when it is illegal to ship them across state lines and the feds are watching you like a hawk because of a past trangression?
 
yablanowitz said:
And how are you supposed to get those knives out there to the state where they are legal for anyone to own, when it is illegal to ship them across state lines and the feds are watching you like a hawk because of a past trangression?
Click to expand...

My issue with Spyderco is exactly that: according to them, it is never legal to own an automatic, regardless of where you live in the States, unless, of course, if you are in the Military or a LEO. They state that clearly in their leaflet, and I remember a fellow once mentioned he owned an automatic on their Forum and he got slammed, practically they told him to turn himself and his knife in (and, if I recall correctly, he had stated that autos were legal where he lives).
 
They manufacture automatic knives in a state where it is illegal for private citizens to own them. The only legal way for them to sell their automatic knives is through a system of dealers with legal documentation that they will be sold only in accordance with federal laws, i.e. only to military and law enforcement personnel. Production of their automatic knives did not start until after the butterfly knife incident.

Are you suggesting that they should break the law to sell more knives? The fine for a second violation would bankrupt the company. I'd rather see them get out of that market altogether than be fined out of existence.
 
Spyderco can put whatever they want on their information cards. Who cares? It covers them where it is not legal, and it means nothing where it is legal. Owning a auto in Florida is perfectly legal.
 
Hi LorenzoL,

The words that we used were developed by two federal attorneys, one state attorney and a US Attorney. That's what they want us to say to be in accordance with the laws.

Yab's explanation explains reasons.

We appreciate your question, concern and disagreement. We are a proper US company and we wish to remain that way whether we agree with the laws or not.

We produce a number of non-lockers because certain countries have laws against locking folding knives, and their citizens want to carry quality folders but still be in accordance with the local laws.

I hope that answers your question about our paranoia.

sal
 
I think Spyderco's "paranoia" regarding autos is absolutely warranted after their run-in with The Man about their balisongs.

And it's not just Spyderco, it's also Benchmade, Microtech, and any manufacturer or seller of automatics and balisongs that want to stay in business and out of prison.
 
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