Why is Spyderco so paranoid about automatic knives?

[Confederate]

There's also the practical aspect of automatic knives, which are, let's face it, getting less relevant every year. Most legal knives open in a fraction of a second, anyway, and are strong and durable. It's entirely likely that Spyderco realizes that and simply sees no need to have automatic knives.

It doesn't come up very often, but it wouldn't take much to get the state legislatures in many states to make the knives we carry on a daily basis illegal. If opening speed is a reason to ban knives, why not ban any knife that opens quickly? Thus, my Cold Steel Recon-1, which opens just as quickly as my switchblades, is in constant danger of someone trying to find a "window dressing" type legislation aimed at taking them away from criminals. After all, why do "law abiding" citizens "need" such knives?

Automatic knives may be of interest to collectors and useful for specified tactical responses, but the knife industry is already dangerously close to having unusually stupid politicians come down on it for lack of anything more substantial to enact. Such knives also tend to be on the smallish side and, therefore, of limited use to begin with.

You can get one if you really need one, but the fact is, there may not be a real market. Some companies just don't want to risk being associated with a weapon or weapons "of choice"—a narrow and ill defined term. But that's my guess.

.

 

[p_mcmanis]

Automatic knives may be of interest to collectors and useful for specified tactical responses.

I think that they appeal mostly to two situations that are neither collecting nor tactical:

obviously those with only one hand/arm OR limited hand strength (my mother cant open my smoothest benchmade, which with the axis lock pulled back has about as much resistance as air, with the thumb studs) who are really helped out by push button automatics.

but also there are people who may end up upisde down or in other bad situations and need to have a knife that can be opened without you having to apply much force (sky divers caught in trees, frirefighters, rock climbers, it doesnt really matter but legitimate reasons).

If you look at knives as a tool then its easy to see people who have good reasons to wanting automatics.

 

[elkins45]

Autos in Kentucky are classified as a deadly weapon. Same as a firearm.
(By contrast they are illegal, period in Indiana)
They are not illegal to own or carry openly.
People possessing a Concealed Deadly Weapons Permit, can carry them concealed same as a handgun. They also can carry any knife, concealed.
Autos are commonly sold here in brick and mortar stores and at flea markets.

Everything you said is true---but it ignores the interstate transportation issues under Federal Law. How did those autos enter the state when it's illegal to transport them across state lines except for LEO or military?

That's the reason my only autos are made by Dalton: he manufactures them here in Kentucky. No Federal transport issues, and I make sure I never take them across state lines.

 

[44Magpie]

I wrote a post on the Spyderco forum once about how easy it was to get ANY auto knife, including Spyderco autos, through internet sales or at gun and knife shows and you would have thought I was the devil! Some childish female moderator there said I shouldn't be saying that since I was a LEO and then she wanted proof of what agency I was with! I wasn't in any way condoning breaking the law but she failed, through her ignorance, to see the point I was making was that Spyderco can say anything they want to about possession and sales of their autos but in the real world anyone can get them. Do a search on just this site alone and you'll see literally dozens have been sold here since Spyderco brought them out.
I realize they have to CYA but if they think their autos aren't getting into "civilian" hands they are sadly mistaken.

 

[LorenzoL]

I wrote a post on the Spyderco forum once about how easy it was to get ANY auto knife, including Spyderco autos, through internet sales or at gun and knife shows and you would have thought I was the devil! Some childish female moderator there said I shouldn't be saying that since I was a LEO and then she wanted proof of what agency I was with! I wasn't in any way condoning breaking the law but she failed, through her ignorance, to see the point I was making was that Spyderco can say anything they want to about possession and sales of their autos but in the real world anyone can get them. Do a search on just this site alone and you'll see literally dozens have been sold here since Spyderco brought them out.
I realize they have to CYA but if they think their autos aren't getting into "civilian" hands they are sadly mistaken.

You just summed up the whole point about my initial post, but apparently I got misunderstood. I never meant to criticize Spyderco on this issue, I just believe they got strong-armed by the government into enforcing a Federal Law that is at odds with many Local Laws and that the Feds cannot enforce themselves.

 

[44Magpie]

I wasn't criticizing them either. As a business they do what they have to do to comply with the laws but that moderator over there on their forum just went ballistic on me and it wasn't called for. People who want a Spyderco auto can get one any time they want no matter what their company says.

 

[yablanowitz]

That is sadly true, but it seems it was you who missed the point. Spyderco takes its responsibilties seriously. Tell them which dealers are selling their restricted items to non-military/LEO in violation of the agreements they signed to get those items, and I'll wager those dealers will no longer be Spyderco dealers. They may even be prosecuted. Even if autos are legal in the state where the dealer is selling them, the dealer is still violating the ageement made with Spyderco. That "childish female moderator" understands that. She also believes we should respect our LEOs, which implies they should make themselves worthy of respect.

Sure, there is a thriving black market in automatic knives. Every time the government passes a new law, they create a new black market for whatever they are trying to get rid of. Having someone in law enforcement appear to condone that black market, even if it was only due to poor wording, diminishes the respectability of law enforcement in general.

Oh, you might want to bear in mind that the same person is a moderator here as well.

 

[GronK]

I think Spyderco's "paranoia" regarding autos is absolutely warranted after their run-in with The Man about their balisongs.

And it's not just Spyderco, it's also Benchmade, Microtech, and any manufacturer or seller of automatics and balisongs that want to stay in business and out of prison.

I wrote a post on the Spyderco forum once about how easy it was to get ANY auto knife, including Spyderco autos, through internet sales or at gun and knife shows and you would have thought I was the devil! Some childish female moderator there said I shouldn't be saying that since I was a LEO and then she wanted proof of what agency I was with! I wasn't in any way condoning breaking the law but she failed, through her ignorance, to see the point I was making was that Spyderco can say anything they want to about possession and sales of their autos but in the real world anyone can get them. Do a search on just this site alone and you'll see literally dozens have been sold here since Spyderco brought them out.
I realize they have to CYA but if they think their autos aren't getting into "civilian" hands they are sadly mistaken.

The bottom line is quite simple, really. Whereas a Federal LEO who is sworn to uphold the law can play fast and loose with discussing easy access to autos, Spyderco does not have that luxury. The forum you are referring to belongs to Spyderco and they are ultimately liable for what gets posted there. She slapped your hand and asked you to play nice and you responded like the girl child you accuse her of being.

 

[44Magpie]

I don't post on these forums as a LEO and neither do the other LEOs on here. We post on them as people interested in knives. I simply stated the obvious about how people come by their autos and was berated for it. I wasn't giving a legal opinion, just my own as a private citizen. In her way of seeing things, if an attorney gave his opinion on one of these topics she would say he was giving legal advice instead of his own private opinion just like she did with me. That is a very foolish way to look at things. She was wrong in what she said about my post. End of story.
Even if this person is a moderator on this board it doesn't change my opinion of her in the least. I have no idea what her screen name is here but if she acts like she does on the Spyerco board she has no business being a moderator.

 

[yablanowitz]

If you are not posting as a law enforcement officer here, I suggest you remove "Federal LEO" from your signature.

As for complaining here about what a moderator did elsewhere, that looks like an attempt to start a cross-forum debate. The moderators here don't tolerate those very well.

 

[GronK]

So, in other words, "RESPECK MAH AUTHORITAY".

(Anyone else getting the fat reflector sunglasses mental image?)

Reply intended for Magpie not you, Yab.

 

[44Magpie]

If you are not posting as a law enforcement officer here, I suggest you remove "Federal LEO" from your signature.

As for complaining here about what a moderator did elsewhere, that looks like an attempt to start a cross-forum debate. The moderators here don't tolerate those very well.

Why are you trying to start trouble?
I'm not trying to start anything with anyone. I simply replied to a post and now you have blown this way out of proportion. You have no idea what I posted on the Spyderco forum so why are you bashing me for it?

 

[44Magpie]

So, in other words, "RESPECK MAH AUTHORITAY".

(Anyone else getting the fat reflector sunglasses mental image?)

Reply intended for Magpie not you, Yab.

Oh boy. Now you've turned this into a cop-bashing thread. Some of you people are unbelievable.

 

[Wunderbar]

Whereas a Federal LEO who is sworn to uphold the law

LEO's also use discretion when upholding the law. Granted the Spyderco forum is a privately owned forum, I agree with 44Magpie. Freedom to talk about auto availability and sheeple laws that prohibit them is freedom of speech.

 

[tom19176]

Well, the OP asked how any one any where could own a switchblade legally if the federal law bans their possession. The Federal law only bans their possession in certain locations which any land that is a STATE is not included. If you actually read the law and understand it, it tells you that they are banned in certain Federal holdings ( which the 50 states are not). It also only controls interstate commerce so you crossing state lines with a knife that is your property and not for sale does not violate this law. I am not a lawyer, but I have discussed this with several US Attorneys over the years, and they have all concurred. I understand Sal's concerns, since he had the issue he had, and he has to ensure that the knives he ships are going to the properly authorized dealers. All that said, if you go to the Blade show next week, you will be in the company of several hundred federal felons since they are all breaking the law by bringing the autos there accross state lines for sale to the general public. Remember just because you didn't get arrested doesn't mean you did not commit the crime....

 

[LorenzoL]

Well, the OP asked how any one any where could own a switchblade legally if the federal law bans their possession. The Federal law only bans their possession in certain locations which any land that is a STATE is not included. If you actually read the law and understand it, it tells you that they are banned in certain Federal holdings ( which the 50 states are not). It also only controls interstate commerce so you crossing state lines with a knife that is your property and not for sale does not violate this law. I am not a lawyer, but I have discussed this with several US Attorneys over the years, and they have all concurred. I understand Sal's concerns, since he had the issue he had, and he has to ensure that the knives he ships are going to the properly authorized dealers. All that said, if you go to the Blade show next week, you will be in the company of several hundred federal felons since they are all breaking the law by bringing the autos there accross state lines for sale to the general public. Remember just because you didn't get arrested doesn't mean you did not commit the crime....

Excellent point. Anyway, my intention was to stress how hypocritical some laws can be, and how some good, legitimate businesses can get caught in the crossfire.

 

[GronK]

Wow! Cop bashing? Freedom of speech? And who are the "you people" you refer to? Freedom of Speech ends when you agree to the rules (you know, like the one about cross forum bashing?) when signing up for a privately owned forum.

 

[LorenzoL]

Please do not hijack this thread and make it into a freedom of speech issue. It is about the freedom of carrying automatic knives where local laws allow it.

 

[GronK]

Please do not hijack this thread and make it into a freedom of speech issue. It is about the freedom of carrying automatic knives where local laws allow it.

Again, quick and easy. If local laws allow it then do it, but don't get pissy about manufacturers who won't endanger their very existence to provide you the knives you feel entitled to.

 

[Sal Glesser]

This discussion does seem to be deteriorating. Sorry 'bout that.

Thanx to those that have tried to explain. We appreciate.

I guess any discussion about autos is ok, from spring tension to edge thickness. However, when discussing Spyderco's distribution methods of a federally controlled product, on a public forum, I'm sure you can see why we must respond the way we do.

Magpie,

if our moderator's words offended you, please accept my apology. She is following policy. I don't know how other auto manufacturers handle their public discussion on distribution, but we must do what works for us.

Wunderbar,

Of course freedom of speech is always there, but it is not in Spyderco's best interest to tell you to break any laws.

Your kind understanding is appreciated.

sal