Why Lynn Thompson Rules!

[STR]

Not just stolen knives.

I do not just look at the knife. I look at who made it. If I do not see honor and integrity there I do not want the knife. There are individuals and companies whose work I will never own no matter how good the knife or price. An honest maker will give credit where it is due, those are the makers whose knives I own.

I do not consider that hypocrisy at all.

I understand. Some companies, like Cold Steel for example are hard to pin down for where they are made exactly. I guess from my stand point if a folder comes out, lets call it a Buck 110, and a few years later another comes out similar to it by such and extent that it sure looks the same, lets call it a Schrade LB7 I can jump to the conclusion that its the same and a stolen design but do I really know enough to say that? Fact is that when side by side you see that there are differnences subtle as they may be. Now, are these differences enough to make it distintly different so its not the same in a legal standing? See thats the gray area I am not qualified to decide. In other words there is a dispute there, which leaves reason for doubt. Honor and integrity means something and I'm not trying to say it shouldn't ok? All I'm saying is that I can't justify basing a decision like that without knowing and the only way to know for me would be to buy one of each, break them down, lay out the parts and start looking at them and measuring them.


I have not actually done this but I suspect most would turn out to be distinctly different in places that make them unique and certainly of a different design in the system that comes together to make them work and probably just enough to make them legal. On the outside they can often look similar but on the inside I'd bet there are some differences. Things like lock bar lengths, blade lengths and shapes, thickness diff of the blade, lock or body, weight diff, stop pin location differences, lock differences either in design or type all of which come together to make you realize all they did was like a handle shape and shoot for it in their own ideal of what they thought would improve it enough to appeal to someone or themselves. Legal? Hell man I don't know. But I'd have to say if sworn under oath it is different from a design and engineering standpoint if I saw those things you know?

Lynn Thompson is not a saint and I would be the last one to say he is but how many in this or any industry are? The knives contracted out by him made by Camillus may have been made by friends of mine. I have little problem with that personally. These threads always get off like this. Its really a given the moment you bring up LT or others around here.

 

[Bastid]

For me it is not that much of a gray area. I ask if something is not clear to me, if I do not get a clear answer then my decision has been made for me. There are plenty of makers and manufacturers that I would rather support who are straightforward and honest, but to each their own. I understand those who do not care what is behind the knife. Nothing wrong with that, but it is not the way I happen to make my decisions when I buy a user or a big buck custom.

I am still struggling on how that is hypocrisy.

 

[STR]

Hello STR! Does this example really work? Don't get my wrong, but so many companies here in Germany have been related to Hitler's regime (e.g. Volkswagen), I think it would be a neverending story if I'd try to avoid these companies and their products. After all, that was over 60 years ago.

I totally agree with you that one shouldn't blame CS and LT for contracting out and accept it from other companies. But I personally dislike CS for their advertising, their whole concept of slicing, stabbing power and its impact on flesh. We as knifeknuts are already confronted with prejudices day by day, we do not a company that supports the mallninja-image in such dimensions.

Another thing would be "transparency". I don't know where exactly CS knives are made, who designs them except LT (plus Pendleton et al.), and what CS exactly stands for. I know very little about this company, though I tried to find out more.
What I mean is that I know guys who like certain companies for special reasons. I met people who like CRK for some reasons and Spyderco for other reasons. I could understand most of them and had no problem with it.

It took a long time to meet CS fans, some I /met/ here, some on youtube and other places on the net. Couldn't find one in RL 'til now. Most of them were sassy, aggressive, intolerant towards other companies, so what impression should I be getting from this? And yes, I did watch the Proof videos.

CS just leaves a bad taste in my mouth, and the other companies aren't saints either. But besides Dark Ops, there's none which could be compared to CS imho.

Take care and sorry for my English, there's still a lot of room for improvement.

CZ

Ford was the first example that came to my mind.

Looking at the knives without judgements on the people behind the knives is not something always comfortable but if I'm sent a knife to evaluate or go over I have to look at the folder not the person, designer or maker/manufacturer behind it. If a knife came to me from some company and I was asked my opinion and the guy they collaborated with was someone I just hated then its not a fair or objective review of the product should I let my personal feelings interfere with the judgement of the folder as a whole.

People write me everyday to ask me about the knives they are interested in. They really don't much care about the people I don't think. Its taken me a while to figure that out though but hey, I'm slow.

Is it crap? Does it work or not? Is it designed well? Stuff like that would be what I look at. If you wiped off the ID behind the knife in other words and looked at it for what it was forgetting the rest of what you think you know in other words you can then see it for just the simple tool it is and nothing more. You can then see it the same way you would see it if you were stranded on a deserted island and its all you had. Does it mean from a personal standpoint that I'd carry it or use it otherwise? Of course no. What it means is that if I called a knife crap just because of the company or maker when in fact the lock, the blade, cutting and edge performance, overall fit and finish and anything else that mattered was all spot on and on par with anything three times its price then I let my bias interfere with the folder or fixed blade eval. This could mislead someone based on personal stuff about the real question which is about the knife not the person or people behind it.

If I told you the Strider SnG was total crap I'd be eaten alive around here yet in my mind I see no way anyone that is reasonably intelligent regarding the knives and what makes a great one could look at that knife and call it anything but a superb design from the ground up that works. If I was stranded in a remote location it would certainly be one I'd wish I had on me then thats for darn sure, but that does not even begin to cover my feelings on the people behind it.

Don't kid yourself on the transparency thing. Its not as much transparent as it may seem as a whole. The same could be said of some of the crowd that hangs at certain booths at knife shows regarding being sassy, aggressive, intolerant towards other companies and differing views. Its not just Cold Steel believe me. Lastly I don't like everything Cold Steel sells. If I get a lemon to look over and its a lemon I'll call it a lemon just like I call a duck a duck.

I do however hate all the hype but again look around. There is a lot more hype out there than Cold Steel and the one thing they do make, which is those DVDs.

STR

 

[STR]

For me it is not that much of a gray area. I ask if something is not clear to me, if I do not get a clear answer then my decision has been made for me. There are plenty of makers and manufacturers that I would rather support who are straightforward and honest, but to each their own. I understand those who do not care what is behind the knife. Nothing wrong with that, but it is not the way I happen to make my decisions when I buy a user or a big buck custom.

I am still struggling on how that is hypocrisy.

In your case there is no hypocrisy that I see. Honestly I was not referring to you, nor did I notice where you posted before you quoted me the first time.

STR

 

[John T Wylie Jr]

even custom makers contract with people and companies to have their blades made for them to be used in their folders and fixed blades as well as many of the smaller parts they use.
STR

If they do , then they aren't CUSTOM knife makers , more like small time production , though some do use outsourced blades/parts/etc in their mid-tech or semi-custom lines , and those that I am aware of that do , are forthcoming with that information.

There is a lot more hype out there than Cold Steel and the one thing they do make, which is those DVDs.

Don't believe they make those either , but they do work as a make shift drink coaster.

when in fact the lock, the blade, cutting and edge performance, overall fit and finish and anything else that mattered was all spot on and on par with anything three times its price

Care to give examples of knives that CS sells that are equal to knives that cost 3x more ?

I don't consider myself a knife snob , I appreciate a Case Sodbuster and many other less expensive knives as well as my customs.

Judging by the knives from the CS booth at SHOT this last year , I can say with all sincerity , that not a single one impressed me enuff to say " I would like to have one of these ". Funny , nobody else that I was with felt the need to own any either , and their booth looked rather dead during the whole show.

Way too much ninja-like 7-11 warrior samurai marketing for what the knives really are , mediocre at best.

 

[STR]

Care to give examples of knives that CS sells that are equal to knives that cost 3x more ?

Way too much ninja-like 7-11 warrior samurai marketing for what the knives really are , mediocre at best.

1st ? I was saying as an example of a knife. Could be any knife, not necessarily a CS.

But if I was going to pick some then it would be probably two. The Pendelton designed Master Hunter fixed blade and Ultimate Hunter folder are exceptional values for the money for someone wanting a good reliable real world worker. The knives flat out perform in the field and everybit as well as anything I've used way more expensive than either one.

2nd. I agree John. Too much of the ninja crap. We had a knife show here the other day at the mall. I got up, went down, the whole show was Pakistan and China junk! All of it mall ninja stuff no one wants.


STR

 

[John T Wylie Jr]

Just say NO to Ninja...

The Pendelton designed Master Hunter fixed blade and Ultimate Hunter folder

If you were going to compare those to knives they are on par with that were 2-3x times the cost of the CS ones , which knives would you compare them to ? Just curious.

At the last gun show , a guy was selling all kinds of junk knives , but he was really pushing his new " super duper " pocket sharpener that puts all other sharpeners to shame.
He was daring others to show him a sharper knife.... when I left that guys table he was standing there with snake oil on his shoes and I am sure he was wondering " Who the hell is knifemaker Ken Erickson ? Dam that knife was sharp !! ".

Ninja salesman...sometimes you just gotta put them in their place.

 

[STR]

Just say NO to Ninja...

If you were going to compare those to knives they are on par with that were 2-3x times the cost of the CS ones , which knives would you compare them to ? Just curious.

)

Comparing the Master Hunter which belongs to my son from one he bought for like $80 and some change; I compared the Master Hunter to a Buck Kalinga that I paid a premium for from a dealer. The Master Hunter was more comfortable, kept a better edge, was not the least bit slippery and overall just impressed me. Comparing it to the Knives of Alaska Magnum something. Forgive me but I forget the name of that one. It was not mine either but after using it I would not want it. It had the gut hook also just like my son's and even though it was supposed to be D2 it sure seemed soft to me. In short I'd take the Master Hunter over it in the field and save about $100 or more.

I did a pretty good review of the Ultimate Hunter compared to the Spyderco Manix. It stacked up pretty darn well for a $50 folder at half the cost of the one it was complared to. I did not keep it although it did well. For what its worth I didn't keep the Spyderco either though.

STR

 

[Thomas Linton]

. . .
For you guys with the comments about manufacturing. It is true that Cold Steel designs and contracts out to have their products made. But do you really want to go there?

Not sure where "there" might be. I merely stated a fact in response to an inaccurate claim that CS "makes" knives. Remember, "Cold Steel makes the best products."?

. . . Did that matter to you? No apparently not. And yet you can overlook that dark blotch on one but not the ones on LT or Cold Steel? The word Hypocrite comes to mind here !

"You" would be whom? I know what I, personally, overlook.

 

[STR]

Not sure where "there" might be. I merely stated a fact in response to an inaccurate claim that CS "makes" knives. Remember, "Cold Steel makes the best products."?


"You" would be whom? I know what I, personally, overlook.

You was a generalized statement in the plural first where I said, "you guys, stating that it is not necessarily a bad thing just because a designer contracts out their designs. 'One' may have been a better choice of words like for this comment. One cannot hold it against Cold Steel for contract work unless one holds it against all others that do this as well.

If I wanted to single someone out and get personal I'd have done so. I stated it the way I did so as to not do that.

Lastly and then I'm going back to political to cuss about the Obamasiah somemore, from my stand point if one is going to fault the knives they need specifics about the product not emotional statements or feelings about the maker/manufacturer(s). Its been stated before that many good people work for Cold Steel just as many good people work for some other designers and manufacturers that we could dig up dirt on all day long if we so desired. Andrew Demko is a stand up guy that is a class act in my opinion and he should not be shorted just for who he collaborates with. IMO> Its much easier to look at and evaluate just the knives letting them speak for themselves rather than dwell on all the emotional responses of peoples feelings about individuals that cloud and confuse the topic of knives. But its just my opinion. If the opinion is of the product, IE, its a mall ninja piece I'm not interested it its valid but to say, its a LT junk without ever having owned it but by just being guilty of writing it off based on a prejudged decision there is really very little reason that person need contribute if they have nothing to say about the product. Again my opinion.

The industry is full of people that do things that are not really nice and I could get into some real stories of some crap about it but the truth is it doesn't matter. Its opinions from one individual and nothing more than gossip really. My opinion about who made a knife should not really matter to anyone as much as what my opinion of the knife itself and what it is all about, especially if someone asks about a brand or model specifically. Taking it upon myself to speak more about the man or men behind the knives more than the product does not really answer the question. I think if I did that too often people would stop asking about the knives. So, in short my take is to focus on the knives.
STR

 

[DngrRuss1]

Great series of posts STR. I could not agree more. It is ok to have your likes and dislikes, but I wish we could all keep it (at least) intellectually honest and not make every CS post knee-jerk and reactionary.

 

[wolfmann601]

A rehash of arguments and comments presented a zillion times, boring!!!!!!

 

[imaginefj]

I would be a CS fan if they stepped their warranty up! I want a Busse/Swamp Rat/Scrap Yard warranty!

 

[SIFU1A]

really a few of the fixed blades arent bad for the $$.

to me a few areas of design theft which arent grey areas are CS's use of the emerson design wave and the blatant copy of brian tighes tighe stick (?IIRC all his are tighe somethings, i think its a tighe stick) imho both of those are just not right.

as far as the folders go, for the $$ most arent too bad, most if not all the FRN ones are getting pretty long in tooth now, they are 15+ yrs old, some of the new designs are wayyyy too expensive imho, for anything made by cold steel anyway.

i suppose what irks me is they advertise as if they are something really special made outta really special steel and both statements are imho BS, they are "ok" but nothing special and neither is the steel they use which varies from batch to batch anyway. and imho the "proof" videos are pretty corny and mean nothing to me, and to train like he claims lynn sure is heavy lol.

but, like i say, they arent bad for an entry level knife i suppose, its when they start trying to compete with more expensive stuff that they seem to have "issues".

 

[Buffalohump]

CS can be damn good value for money, period. Not on everything but if you don't like the new prices, you'll find it used soon enough, and at VERY good prices.

Hell, I just bought a SK-5 Trail Master for $100 shipped. I don't care what anyone says, that's a lotta knife for the dough.

 

[STR]

really a few of the fixed blades arent bad for the $$.

to me a few areas of design theft which arent grey areas are CS's use of the emerson design wave and the blatant copy of brian tighes tighe stick (?IIRC all his are tighe somethings, i think its a tighe stick) imho both of those are just not right.

as far as the folders go, for the $$ most arent too bad, most if not all the FRN ones are getting pretty long in tooth now, they are 15+ yrs old, some of the new designs are wayyyy too expensive imho, for anything made by cold steel anyway.

i suppose what irks me is they advertise as if they are something really special made outta really special steel and both statements are imho BS, they are "ok" but nothing special and neither is the steel they use which varies from batch to batch anyway. and imho the "proof" videos are pretty corny and mean nothing to me, and to train like he claims lynn sure is heavy lol.

but, like i say, they arent bad for an entry level knife i suppose, its when they start trying to compete with more expensive stuff that they seem to have "issues".

Andrew Demko holds a patent for the opening device Cold Steel uses and at first a lot of folks didn't know they were holding that or that they even filed it and had a patent on it when it came out so thats how the rumor that it was a stolen Wave came up. I can't comment on the Tigthe knife. I understand Lynn Thompson now owns the patent on the opening device though which is just like Ernie does for the Wave they use. Its a separate design, above board and legal regardless of all the guys thinking they know otherwise. Again, Andy is a stand up guy who caught a lot of grief over that he did not deserve.

IMO Cold Steel is not the only company adverstising as if they have something special made better, harder use, or proven regardless of what other terms are used to get the point across.

I guess the way I see the price differences is somtimes different, because I do agree when I see some inexpensive stuff trying to stand with more expensive I wonder but you have to ask yourself this. Are they really trying to stand with any other brand anywhere outside of one's own perception? Besides this when you really look at both side by side and compare the differences between them you start to see that in use the differences are not as stark as the prices are usually but to be fair I usually try to compare them to the same league price wise and then always keep in mind how the other more expensive 'higer end' folders felt when I did the same things with them.

Emerson's HardWear line of knives is very similar in build type to much of the Cold Steel stuff on the level of the Voyager, Vaquero, and GunSite models and that is where I like to compare them. When I did that I saw similarity in both the price, since you can buy an Emerson Endeavor from New Graham when they have them for about the same price as a Large Voyager but when you compare the thickness differences in the FRN handles and on some blades of the Cold Steel similar priced line you see why they feel more rigid in the hand. Even the shorter Traveler which I have, as well as the Endeavor both have a lot more flex and side to side give than my Voyager or El Lobo in similar sizes. The FRN is thicker on the Cold Steel, the locks are wider thicker steel bars and it appears the pins in the construction are bigger on the Cold Steel knives.

What bugs me about Cold Steel in recent years is this belief that bigger is better all the sudden. Everything they focus on is huge now! You can't hardly find a regular sized folder from them and I think it may have to do with the market they are trying to appeal to but still it makes it pretty hard for the guys that grew up some with the company to find something they can take to as well as they used to. Fortunately there are a lot of older ones available from Ebay from the days when things were a bit more sedate.
STR

 

[greater]

Oh please whether or not you like Mr. Thompson or his ways is irrelevant Cold Steel make products that are in the upper tier of quality. Cold Steel does and has in the past introduced unique and useful designs as well as marketing items that other manufacturers won't touch.

 

[wolfmann601]

This thread has been DEAD since October 31, 2008!!

Where were you then?

This dead horse has been beaten so badly that it is seriously deader than dead!!

 

[Leadfoot2]

Oh please whether or not you like Mr. Thompson or his ways is irrelevant Cold Steel make products that are in the upper tier of quality. Cold Steel does and has in the past introduced unique and useful designs as well as marketing items that other manufacturers won't touch.

LMAO listening to the theme song from Twilight Zone.


Leadfoot

 

[greater]

Oh my I didn't realize how old this thread is