Why so many Hinderers

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I bought an XM-18 5 years ago for nearly $800 dollars. I ended up selling it and not losing much money. I thought it was an EXCEPTIONAL blade, and now that prices are more reasonable, I will likely pick up another. I know CRK is lauded for their fit and finish, but the RHK knives I've handled give them a run for their money, and I find them to be about the most aesthetically pleasing knives out there.
 
bodog said:
Would you have considered that buck/strider knife fit for emergency personnel operating in hazardous environments when you have almost no control over when it opens? It'd be like a gun that can fire when you don't pull the trigger. It may be the best gun in the world but if it fired on its own when given a slight bump no professional in the world would even consider carrying it. Like I said, it sounds like he may have improved that safety so I cannot comment on his current offerings. Maybe they're great. Personally I've never had anything more than a cheap gas station knife that would open on its own aside from the xm18. That includes assisted and automatic opening knives. Oh well. Enjoy yours, that's what it's all about.
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I had perfect control over it, as soon as I realized how easy it would open and took precautions to avoid carrying it in such a manner to expose myself to injury. As for your experience, you decided it seems to let it sour you on Hinderer knives and move on to other folders that have strong detents. I can live with sheath carry and tip down, if I did want to carry the Hinderer tip up, I'd make sure to put the blade spine against my pocket in the back. I don't think it would open from walking, but no I wouldn't trust any folder with a heavy blade and slick washers to absolutely never jar loose a bit, from hard activity.
 
oliveview said:
Misleading advertising, with grandiose claims, is nothing new or unique to knives. Look at the recent Nissan GTR models. They specifically had a sophisticated "launch control" feature. Which Nissan specifically lauded. That which, if ever used, immediately voided the power train warranty. So...
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Slime ball company who could not give a crap about its customers. They're trusting that their customers can't read or understand they've been duped. Or they're trusting their customers buy their product based on a gimmick and will never use it. Sounds familiar.
 
jill jackson said:
I had perfect control over it, as soon as I realized how easy it would open and took precautions to avoid carrying it in such a manner to expose myself to injury. As for your experience, you decided it seems to let it sour you on Hinderer knives and move on to other folders that have strong detents. I can live with sheath carry and tip down, if I did want to carry the Hinderer tip up, I'd make sure to put the blade spine against my pocket in the back. I don't think it would open from walking, but no I wouldn't trust any folder with a heavy blade and slick washers to absolutely never jar loose a bit, from hard activity.
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It must be nice to carry a knife however you want to. Some people have uniform standards to abide by, especially those who the knives are marketed to. Literally every knife I've ever had, whether I liked anything else about the knife or not, was safe enough to carry however I wanted/could, barring the cheapest of cheap knives and the XM. Every single one of em. Your knife with the Bowie grind does look pretty cool, though.
 
Ok we get it you got cut really bad when your XM-18 opened up, tip up in your pocket. You were chasing a bad guy and it jarred loose. Hinderer doesn't care that you got hurt. They think their knives are above any mistakes on their part, it was Hinderer's fault they suck according to you! :thumbdn:
 
jill jackson said:
Ok we get it you got cut really bad when your XM-18 opened up, tip up in your pocket. You were chasing a bad guy and it jarred loose. Hinderer doesn't care that you got hurt. They think their knives are above any mistakes on their part, it was Hinderer's fault they suck according to you! :thumbdn:
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A line from the article:

" A ... knife that buckles at the moment of truth and either fails or cuts the hand of the person using it is not just worthless, it inhibits your ability to respond/perform — and in this line of work, that is just plain unacceptable."

That just about sums it up. If you're a first responder in any capacity, you have to think about these things. If you aren't, it'll probably mean nothing to you.
 
Bodog be careful of any of Benchmades large Axis locking folders. The ones I have you can shake the blade out a lot easier than the Hinderer.
 
jill jackson said:
Ok we get it you got cut really bad when your XM-18 opened up, tip up in your pocket. You were chasing a bad guy and it jarred loose. Hinderer doesn't care that you got hurt. They think their knives are above any mistakes on their part, it was Hinderer's fault they suck according to you! :thumbdn:
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?.....
 
bodog said:
A line from the article:

" A ... knife that buckles at the moment of truth and either fails or cuts the hand of the person using it is not just worthless, it inhibits your ability to respond/perform — and in this line of work, that is just plain unacceptable."
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You should file a lawsuit if you got hurt so badly and feel so strongly about it.
 
jill jackson said:
You should file a lawsuit if you got hurt so badly and feel so strongly about it.
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Or I could just say that it happens and hope it's heard over the voices of people who don't give a damn about the safety of equipment built specifically for first responders.
 
I get that you don't like the XM line of knives, but you said yourself that you have not tried a newer version. Now I have never owned an older version, so I cannot comment on its performance. Anyhow, I think you would find that the current gen 4's have a good detent to hold the blade in.

But with that being said, I can make the blade of my SMF come out if I violently shake it out, my old Seb 21 would do the same thing.

I understand that older Hinderer knives would literally fall out, but that's not the case anymore.

I can understand your frustrations on a product being misled by the owner/manufacturer.....but......there are so many things that consumers purchase that have a misleading sales pitch. We won't even get started in on vehicles, that would open up a whole other can of worms.

Bottom line is, there are a lot of things I do not like about almost all manufacturers, but I don't feel it necessary to constantly beat a dead horse in a specific thread about an experience that was had with an older generation.

I also don't think it's uncommon for a company/owner/manufacturer to deny certain repairs, warranties, or other issues.

I just saw where a 2014 f150 had the sunroof stuck open and it wasn't covered under the factory warranty. Does it make sense, does it seem fair, seems like BS to me also......but......the point I'm trying to make is that it is ok for certain people to like or not like certain brands, or styles of knives , while others might love them.

Seems like there's been a lot of bickering on BF lately and it's really getting to become a place I would rather not hang out in.
 
bodog said:
A line from the article:

" A ... knife that buckles at the moment of truth and either fails or cuts the hand of the person using it is not just worthless, it inhibits your ability to respond/perform — and in this line of work, that is just plain unacceptable."

That just about sums it up. If you're a first responder in any capacity, you have to think about these things. If you aren't, it'll probably mean nothing to you.
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It means that when I carry a heavy bladed folder with washers, I will be careful after I got stuck by the Buck. That's part of knife ownership, learning about different knives and how to safely carry and handle them. As it was I barely got stuck, but I realized tip up it can happen and I don't take for granted it will not now.
 
I actually sat in a gtr at a Nissan dealership outside fort bliss Texas and talked to the rep about the whole voided warranty if you ever used the launch control, I thought it was ridiculous then as I do now lol

I'm well aware hinderer is not alone in doing this, that's why in my post you quoted I told bodog hinderer WASNT the only one.

Seems like everyone is just like "hell, everyone has the same misleading warranty... shrug" when people should voice their distaste and effect change... like that will ever happen.
oliveview said:
Misleading advertising, with grandiose claims, is nothing new or unique to knives. Look at the recent Nissan GTR models. They specifically had a sophisticated "launch control" feature. Which Nissan specifically lauded. That which, if ever used, immediately voided the power train warranty. So...
Click to expand...
 
bodog said:
Sorry, I misread the article a little. It said everything is cut in machining centers, talking about CNC machines. I thought it meant machining factories. However, the article said this:

"Except for finishes and heat treat, everything is done on-site."

That originally had me believe that only assembling was performed in house. Not the case. Things are cut by CNC machine and then subcontracted out to different companies for a lot of the important work then brought back for the finishing touches. Kind of like calling a Chevrolet an American car when the parts were built in Malaysia and assembled in Mexico then brought to America to have the seats and radio put in.

But it also said that each knife is hand ground by Rick Hinderer. We know that's not the case. So I don't know how accurate it is. Has a lot of in house photos so I'm assuming Rick approved the article.

So everything is cut by CNC, shipped out for heat treatment and finishing, brought back, assembled, and someone does the sharpening. We know that's usually not by Rick because whoever gets those make it very well known that it was a blade done by Hinderer if it was.

So this statement has me confused. It says this:

".What results is a fixed or folding knife that will stand up to the rigors of military, police, fire or emergency service regardless of the required task."

But his warranty says that normal wear and tear isn't covered. Abuse isn't covered. Really nothing is covered. I've seen the stuff that the quoted statement alludes to in real life. It would either be considered normal for a first responder or it would be considered abuse by anyone else. So I use the knife as a first responder in the course of duty and it breaks. Then what?

And to give one last kick to the dead horse, it says it'll stand up to the rigors, unless the rigors cause a blade with no detent to fall out and cut you up. That's how the knife was meant to be.


It really is a pretty good article with some interesting pics for those who want to read it.
http://americancopmagazine.com/custom-combative-steel/

I'm bowing out of Hinderer discussions for awhile. It's old. People either like them or not and it sounds like maybe he fixed the detent issue.
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Finishes =/= finishing....

reading comprehension > you

finishes = anodizing, blasting/washing, DLC etc and DLC is probably the only one they actually do send out which everyone does considering Ion Bond is the only game in town.


Also, that article is AT LEAST 3 years old. Hinderer has only increased their capacity and production capabilities since then.
 
I'll start off by saying I know very little about Hinderer knives. The discussion reminds me of Cuban cigars. Are they really that good or is it the mystique around them that make people think they're that good or does it even matter? If you like them or convince yourself you like them, that's all that matters.

Personally, I've got issues buying knives that run $450 and up, way up, when there are so many good choices at half the price and less. But that's me and what do I know?
 
I always loved the looks of them, when I noticed brand new for what they retail for I decided, I wouldn't get hurt too bad trying one. I think they're pretty impressive and ordered a 24 for retail also.
 
My post back on page one asked how much of an XM-18 is made by Rick Hinderer. The answer seems to be that making the parts is all contract work and assembly, finishing & sharpening is done in the Hinderer workshop but not by Rick himself.
Is this a reasonably accurate understanding ?
I had an XM-18 which i bought soon after Rick started making them. Bought it through a dealer who had been carrying Rick's knives for a few years at that point. My understanding was that it was a sole authorship custom knife made by Rick Hinderer.
Were those early XM-18's all made by Rick himself ?
kj
 
The answer is making the parts is all in house. Hinderer doesn't send off for his blades, liners, screws, pivots, or handles. It's spelled out pretty plainly. As for who does the work, I'm sure his employees do, but so what? He owns the company, he's the boss I'm sure he oversees everything.
 
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