Why so many thread asking for rec. for a really thick folder?

I was at the store and the clerk could not open the cash register because the key was lost. So I pulled out my Strider smf Rouge Warrior and cracked it open.I could not have done that with my Manix and expected not to snap. but hey I do own a Manix2. In fact I own a standard and an xl. I guess I just like knives.....
 
PayneTrain said:
Wow. I see you have a very strong opinion of modern knives, but I feel you're being a little inflammatory and presumptuous. It seems you're lumping every knife design to evolve since the 80's into one giant garbage category, and I'm really trying hard to give you the benefit of the doubt that maybe you don't mean that, and you aren't as bitter as that post suggests to me, at least.

Again, we could all "get by" with the most basic of knives and automobiles, and we all know that. We could all survive without running shoes, twin tipped skis, craft beers, or god forbid...the internet. It's 2014 and technology has evolved. Over-built and "tactical" knives, however you define them, are part of that evolution and have places in our lives and in our pockets. Embrace them. Change is good.
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No, I have nothing against modern knives per se, if they have not lost sight of the fact that they are a cutting tool first. Form should always follow function. Knives like the Spyderco military is a knife I can applaud. But some of the knives named after guns, or made with reverse curves blades with weird sha[ped tips, and over thick blades that are porr cutters are a joke in my book. They are marketed to young inexperienced guys who have never really used a knife on a job that required cutting stuff.

I'm a member of a gun club and we have a requirement that all new members on their probationary first year, need to do a fixed number of hours of work around the club. We happen to have 5 trap and skeet ranges and a sporting clays range that is open to the public on Wednesdays and Saturdays for a fee. We go through a ton of White Fliers, literally. We get delivery via semi rig, and when all the machines are loaded, theres a ton of dirty clay dust covered cardboard boxes to break down for the recycle dumpster. So many times we get the young guys show up with some tanto bladed thick edged knife that after two cuts down a box seam, are squeaking away, sawing back and forth, and getting nowhere fast. I'll hand the kid a Case sodbuster or an Opinel, and it's a different ball game. Boxes broken down in no time with 3 or 4 of us working. We had one kid with a Spyderco delica, and that did okay, so I can respect that one. We've had some of the young guys show up with a Kershaw this or that, and they did okay. They still cut well like a knife should. But don't show me a .187 thick blade with a chisel grind that won't slice for crap, and ask me to have any regard for it just because it's a modern one hand knife that can pry open a soviet tank hatch, supposedly. That's just sheer Walter Mitty junk.

Show me a knife that cuts like a knife, and I'm okay with it. But some of the mall ninjaish tactical stuff out there is laughable.

I have nothing against evolution, if it gives me a better product. But I do believe Jeff Randall when he says 98% of the knife market is pure BS. I'm too darn old and been to too many places and seen real "Hard work" being done with everything from a Douk-Douk and a few Opinels on a job site at Wheelus Air Force base, Libya, to workers on a banana plantation in Vietnam, to the working ranches just east of Trinidad Colorado where I lived for a while in the 1970's. Lot's of "hard use' being done with blades 1/8 of an inch. The old Buck 110 is a fine example of a heavy duty knife that never forgot it was a knife.

For me, it's got to function at real world jobs. I'm just not into the fantasy trips the modern knife companies are passing off on unsuspecting young guys with no real work experiences. All I ask is that a knife is still a knife, not an object of some would be high speed operator in never never land.
 
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jackknife said:
No, I have nothing against modern knives per se, if they have not lost sight of the fact that they are a cutting tool first. Form should always follow function. Knives like the Spyderco military is a knife I can applaud. But some of the knives named after guns, or made with reverse curves blades with weird sha[ped tips, and over thick blades that are porr cutters are a joke in my book. They are marked to young inexperienced guys who have never really used a knife on a job that required cutting stuff.

I'm a member of a gun club and we have a requirement that all new members on their probationary first year, need to do a fixed number of hours of work around the club. We happen to have 5 trap and skeet ranges and a sporting clays range that is open to the public on Wednesdays and Saturdays for a fee. We go through a ton of White Fliers, literally. We get delivery via semi rig, and when all the machines are loaded, theres a ton of dirty clay dust covered cardboard boxes to break down for the recycle dumpster. So many times we get the young guys show up with some tanto bladed thick edged knife that after two cuts down a box seam, are squeaking away, sawing back and forth, and getting nowhere fast. I'll hand the kid a Case sodbuster or an Opinel, and it's a different ball game. Boxes broken down in no time with 3 or 4 of us working. We had one kid with a Spyderco delica, and that did okay, so I can respect that one. We've had some of the young guys show up with a Kershaw this or that, and they did okay. They still cut well like a knife should. But don't show me a .187 thick blade with a chisel grind that won't slice for crap, and ask me to have any regard for it just because it's a modern one hand knife that can pry open a soviet tank hatch, supposedly. That's just sheer Walter Mitty junk.

Show me a knife that cuts like a knife, and I'm okay with it. But some of the mall ninjaish tactical stuff out there is laughable.
I have nothing against evolution, if it gives me a better product. But I do believe Jeff Randall when he says 98% of the knife market is pure BS. I'm too darn old and been to too many places and seen real "Hard work" being done with everything from a Douk-Douk and a few Opinels on a job site at Wheelus Air Force base, Libya, to workers on a banana plantation in Vietnam, to the working ranches just east of Trinidad Colorado where I lived for a while in the 1970's. Lot's of "hard use' being done with blades 1/8 of an inch. The old Buck 110 is a fine example of a heavy duty knife that never forgot it was a knife.

For me, it's got to function at real world jobs. I'm just not into the fantasy trips the modern knife companies are passing off on unsuspecting young guys with no real work experiences. All I ask is that a knife is still a knife, not an object of some would be high speed operator in never never land.
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Good read. I'm with you for the most part.
 
jackknife said:
No, I have nothing against modern knives per se, if they have not lost sight of the fact that they are a cutting tool first. Form should always follow function. Knives like the Spyderco military is a knife I can applaud. But some of the knives named after guns, or made with reverse curves blades with weird sha[ped tips, and over thick blades that are porr cutters are a joke in my book. They are marketed to young inexperienced guys who have never really used a knife on a job that required cutting stuff.

I'm a member of a gun club and we have a requirement that all new members on their probationary first year, need to do a fixed number of hours of work around the club. We happen to have 5 trap and skeet ranges and a sporting clays range that is open to the public on Wednesdays and Saturdays for a fee. We go through a ton of White Fliers, literally. We get delivery via semi rig, and when all the machines are loaded, theres a ton of dirty clay dust covered cardboard boxes to break down for the recycle dumpster. So many times we get the young guys show up with some tanto bladed thick edged knife that after two cuts down a box seam, are squeaking away, sawing back and forth, and getting nowhere fast. I'll hand the kid a Case sodbuster or an Opinel, and it's a different ball game. Boxes broken down in no time with 3 or 4 of us working. We had one kid with a Spyderco delica, and that did okay, so I can respect that one. We've had some of the young guys show up with a Kershaw this or that, and they did okay. They still cut well like a knife should. But don't show me a .187 thick blade with a chisel grind that won't slice for crap, and ask me to have any regard for it just because it's a modern one hand knife that can pry open a soviet tank hatch, supposedly. That's just sheer Walter Mitty junk.

Show me a knife that cuts like a knife, and I'm okay with it. But some of the mall ninjaish tactical stuff out there is laughable.

I have nothing against evolution, if it gives me a better product. But I do believe Jeff Randall when he says 98% of the knife market is pure BS. I'm too darn old and been to too many places and seen real "Hard work" being done with everything from a Douk-Douk and a few Opinels on a job site at Wheelus Air Force base, Libya, to workers on a banana plantation in Vietnam, to the working ranches just east of Trinidad Colorado where I lived for a while in the 1970's. Lot's of "hard use' being done with blades 1/8 of an inch. The old Buck 110 is a fine example of a heavy duty knife that never forgot it was a knife.

For me, it's got to function at real world jobs. I'm just not into the fantasy trips the modern knife companies are passing off on unsuspecting young guys with no real work experiences. All I ask is that a knife is still a knife, not an object of some would be high speed operator in never never land.
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It was a pleasure to read that :thumbup:
 
I am surprised at the turn on this thread. So to reassure some, it is OK to carry a knife simply because you want to or because you like it. If you find it suits your purposes and you can actually use it, that's another point in favor of knife. I don't think anyone should have to feel like they have Freudian issues, a lack of manly confidence, Mother issues, a lack of overall understanding of knife use, or more importantly, feel like they have to agree with the herd mentality.

I posted earlier in this thread about a big, thick folder that I just purchased. For me, it probably won't see much pocket time and I seriously doubt it will be of much real use in my line of work. In some cases, that knife would be excellent, even if it is for someone that wants to carry it because they like it.

And speaking of carrying a knife because they like it, these threads seem to devolve into folks expressing what their favorite knife pattern and size is, then declaring "that's all anyone needs". If we only carried what we needed, many could probably do just fine with an tiny SAK or a box cutter. Quite likely, most would need no knife at all. Think of all the days many here don't use their knife during the day, or use it for a task that another instrument would serve better. For example, wouldn't a letter opener work just as well for opening mail? Wouldn't a kitchen knife work better for food chores? Couldn't you just step on that pesky FedEx package and mash it before throwing it away rather than having to "break it down"?

I carry a RAT1 and a Kershaw Tremor a lot. Every day except a non work day, I always have something like that in my pocket or in my tool bags. I have no fear of masculinity or manliness, probably from being in the construction trades for almost 40 years now. I carry those knives (deemed silly and useless by many) because they were to me the next evolution up from the Buck 110. They have reasonable steel in their blades, are big enough to use for larger tasks like cutting load bindings, rope, thick plastic keepers on 5 gallon adhesive buckets, and a host of other tasks. I can use them (read: open and close) them with gloves on. Since they are made from all synthetic materials, I clean them with charcoal lighter fluid and oil their pivots with whatever I have on hand when I get tar and adhesives on them. They keep working and I keep carrying them.

It is not a lack of understanding of how knives work. It is not a tip of the hat to the mall ninjas. I don't think I am an "operator" nor do I play one on TV. I buy this type of knife for its utility, having ruined or unnecessarily shortened the lives of several smaller, less heavily built knives of which I found their overall performance to be unsatisfactory.

Robert
 
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I carry a SAK Classic every day. I also carry a variety of other knives on rotation. I like variety. From a Case canoe to an XM24.
 
jackknife said:
For me, it's got to function at real world jobs. I'm just not into the fantasy trips the modern knife companies are passing off on unsuspecting young guys with no real work experiences. All I ask is that a knife is still a knife, not an object of some would be high speed operator in never never land.
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Ok thank goodness! Sorry but for a second I thought you were alienating my favorite Spydercos and other useful knives that are a huge part of my collection and this community. I'm with you on Cold Steel and no name Chinese mall garbage, but somehow I got the impression that you were an unyielding traditionalist who hates anything with a pocket clip. Knife designs can certainly get out of hand, and a lot of knives have pretty gimmicky features that I can't help but laugh at, but I'll be damned if they don't sell like wild fire.

I still don't agree that "98% of the knife market is pure BS", though maybe I just don't have a full view of the entire knife market. I see brands like Spyderco, Benchmade, and KAI (probably the most guilty of unnecessary designs, but still have plenty of useful designs to contribute) as the big 3 of the modern folder market and I hardly think the majority of their knives aren't practical, useful, and deserving of the sales they enjoy. But hey, to each his own, right?

I have to admit that I'm currently carrying a borderline ridiculous knife, but after years of using different knives it still offers one of the best user experiences I've enjoyed. It's a CRKT model 4514: big, heavy, 3.5" blade somewhere around .18" thick if I remember correctly, chisel ground because they're too cheap to do it right on a combo edge, and with a bolt lock. But for the ways I use and carry a knife, the clip, lock, heft, and blade shape all combine to keep one of these in my pocket since I got the first one back in 2003. You'd probably laugh at this beast, but I'm tellin ya it's a gem that's easy to use and hard to break. I'm only on my second because I left my first at a dock where I was using it for cutting bait. Someone found a sweet knife that day...

Anyway, sorry again for misunderstanding you, I hope we can still be friends! :D
 
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midnight flyer said:
I am surprised at the turn on this thread. So to reassure some, it is OK to carry a knife simply because you want to or because you like it. If you find it suits your purposes and you can actually use it, that's another point in favor of knife. I don't think anyone should have to feel like they have Freudian issues, a lack of manly confidence, Mother issues, a lack of overall understanding of knife use, or more importantly, feel like they have to agree with the herd mentality.
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I think this is what ruffled my feathers so much. I couldn't believe people were trying to psychoanalyze others (using Freud, no less!) for carrying knives they don't like and coming to such harsh judgements without even defining what makes any particular knife so offensive. Ironically, it made me pass a little judgment myself. Whoops. But seriously, these designs are here for a reason whatever it may be. If they don't work for you, don't buy em, there's nothing inherently wrong with the people that do. I have a small, but diverse collection and I love them all the same. Well, except for the leftover Chinese junk from my humble beginnings. I haven't found a suiting way to destroy those yet. I'll show you hard use....
 
PayneTrain said:
Ok thank goodness! Sorry but for a second I thought you were alienating my favorite Spydercos and other useful knives that are a huge part of my collection and this community. I'm with you on Cold Steel and no name Chinese mall garbage, but somehow I got the impression that you were an unyielding traditionalist who hates anything with a pocket clip. Knife designs can certainly get out of hand, and a lot of knives have pretty gimmicky features that I can't help but laugh at, but I'll be damned if they don't sell like wild fire.

Anyway, sorry again for misunderstanding you, I hope we can still be friends! :D
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I class myself as a somewhat reluctant yielding traditionalist. If I can see an advantage in something, I'll grudgingly adapt and use it. But I worship at the alter of the God of effectiveness. I demand that whatever I have, function at the peak. I have little patience for style over function, no matter if cars, motorcycles, guns, or knives. In my life, I actually have tried the hyped and stylish, and most often been very disappointed in the performance of the item. I drive a 13 year old truck with real crank windows and spartan equipment. But the better halts car needed to be replaced, and she likes comfort, so we got a Toyota Camry with everything. Back-up camera, built in GPS on the little screen that also shows computer readouts of gas milage at present, gas milage past 15 minutes, range left on this tank of gas and other stuff. Once I learned how to use this stuff, I had to grudgingly admit it made life easier on the road. Now that she's also retired, we travel a lot, and a nice car on the road with the goodies is a nice thing. Even if I initially caught it, I had to admit the better half was right.

Like I said, I can applaud the few Spyderco's I've seen that actually cut well. Cutting well is what a knife is supposed to do. I can see why some people like the one hand opening, it's convenient. And as long as it doesn't interfere with function, okay. But the modern knife market is still busy trying to keep the artificially created demand going by introducing the "new and more uber cool" knife that is a must have. Some of these laughable objects of obsession are just overly hyped more of the same crazy designed that don't work as well as a Spyderco Delica or Kershaw whatever. The outrageous designs are to provide something different looking, and even a touch of sinister dark ops kind of mystique. Never mind they may have a handle that would raise blisters if the knife was used for "Hard Work".

I had the great God given fortune to have had three great mentors to learn from in my life. My old man, a real piece of work, my scoutmaster who was an old WW2 Marine, and Bill Moran, who taught me more about industrial design than I could have ever learned on my own. Bill made camp knives from 1/8 stock, and as a demonstration he'd wang them side on against the anvil in his shop to show they wouldn't break. Then he'd go out back to the woods in back of his shop and in 30 seconds or less, a couple of chops, he'd take down a 2 1/2 inch sapling. Bill made 1/8 stock "Hard Use" knives, so I look a bit sideways at some of the junk I see knife companies selling. Gimmicky design just for the sake of stimulating sales.

I'm a curmudgeonly old grouch sometimes as I know I'm close to the final approach, and slow to accept new stuff, but I don't see why we can't be friends. Worse comes to worse, we can just agree to disagree. :D
 
Gotta say that it seems like only the Spyderco and ESEE designs really think about slicing ability for the production range. Benchmade gets there with some products. It's great if a knife is tough, though people who buy those tough knives rarely beat the snot out of them; however it is not fun struggling through a material that has to be separated like cardboard or heavy plastic, with a beefy, thick knife. I learned that through simple trial and error. Some knives just suck at cutting, no matter how sharp you make them.
 
jackknife said:
But the modern knife market is still busy trying to keep the artificially created demand going by introducing the "new and more uber cool" knife that is a must have.
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True, and I think even my beloved Spyderco is becoming guilty of this in some of their new models. I see it kind of like the movie industry: they're just running out of ideas. I'm all for the same old knife designs with different combinations of materials, locking mechanisms, grinds, colors, etc. Or in other words, sprint runs. I'd rather see time and resources spent there than the new Rubicon. That one kind of has me scratching my head...
 
CharlesIV said:
I was at the store and the clerk could not open the cash register because the key was lost. So I pulled out my Strider smf Rouge Warrior and cracked it open.I could not have done that with my Manix and expected not to snap. but hey I do own a Manix2. In fact I own a standard and an xl. I guess I just like knives.....
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You are not the first to try prying with a Strider:

brokestrider.jpg
 
ev13wt said:
Help me understand.
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Well... I can only speak for myself but your post had me thinking about me 0300BW and 0301. Whenever I hold these knives and handle them I always laugh at how silly they really are.

For starters, they don't really offer any additional cutting power over a simple tenacious, in fact the tenacious will likely outperform them everywhere outside of prying. They also, imo, make a lousy tactical blade offering sub par pierce cutting ability. And then there's the weight. 8 ounces? For an EDC? No the 0301 is a ridiculous product.....

....untill you actually hold one. The weight pressing down in the palm of your hand. That thick slab of overly wide S30V bladesteel that effortlessly deploys. Smooth, but with authority because of that controlled assisted opening. You feel the handle, the way the it fits your hand like it's melted in there. You look down and see that manly hex-bolt pivot holding that tigerstriped/black(wash) blade and everything just makes sense.

2w1wpcp.jpg
 
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Wow, I didn't know how insecure and inexperienced I was until I read this thread.
Thank you Bladeforums! :D
 
My grandfather (God bless his soul) was one of those who used a slip-joint knife for pretty much his entire life.
He sharpened that thing (well, those few things, he had more than one) on an old stone, or occasionally some sandpaper.
He didn't care if they got scratched, or the blade got narrow...he just oiled them up so they didn't rust.

I showed him one of my new-fangled, modern one-hand opening knives.
He opened it, closed it, looked at it for a bit and cut some paper.
"That'll work", was his assessment of it.

And you know what, he was right. :)
 
I used my DPX HEST to pry open a car door when a WW2 vet had been hit. I only had to move the door a half inch but with the engine starting to burn we had little time. His arms were cut up and he couldn't push the door open. I gave that particular knife to a LEO who survived a shooting. I replaced it immediately.


 
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