Why so stainless?

[The Aflac Duck]

Yeah it sounds like a bunch of BS and or a troll thread to me.

That's why I asked what knives he was basing his opinions on so maybe we could have some point of reference to start from.

As the old saying goes,
I think he "knows just enough to be dangerous"...

 

[Samon]

Stainless is good on pocket knives, I hate getting corrosive gunk in the pivots etc then having to stick the poor thing back in my pocket for a number of hours before i can clean it properly..

An example: During the summer me and a buddy were going to a local apple orchard to scrump some green gold and were cutting the really bitter skins off with my Douk Douk knife. Simple carbon steel, holds a great edge but as I could only clean it in a small puddle it not only lost its polished sharp edge due to mild patina but it smelt like an abandoned puppy and it need a proper oiling when I got home cuz it was starting to feel stiff to open and close. Not something that has ever been an issue with my sak. Infact when i bother to clean that thing is when it's still in my jean pocket nearby and I grab it and rinse it off in the bath with me! lol

I won't bother with fancy stainless steels though, I like the stuff on my sak, it's soft and easy to sharpen and doesn't rust or smell like old pennies after I've used it. But! I would not spend any real money on a stainless fixed blade. Carbon, high or low in fixed blades is the way to go!

And 01 is better than 1095.

 

[Ankerson]

As the old saying goes,
I think he "knows just enough to be dangerous"...

I dunno, maybe he has been reading the wrong things, that's very possible I suppose.

But I won't even bother to even try to explain anything unless I have someplace to start from since that 1st post was so far off and misinformed.

 

[Final Option]

OP, Ankerson is a steel guru and extremely respected in BF. He has forgotten more information than many of us will ever acquire, his insights and shared research has helped many of us understand the properties of steel in the manufacture of knives. Calling him out, not good.

 

[Ankerson]

OP, Ankerson is a steel guru and extremely respected in BF. He has forgotten more information than many of us will ever acquire, his insights and shared research has helped many of us understand the properties of steel in the manufacture of knives. Calling him out, not good.

I wouldn't say I am a guru.

I am still learning, but consider myself a consultant/teacher and I have my own Column in a Major Knife Magazine starting with their next issue.

 

[Jamesh Bond]

I posted my opinions and my own experience. Then asked for education. Kinda obvious and kind of the point. The response was rude and not helpful. Same as the troll comment.

I had really hoped Ankerson would enlighten me in this thread when i originally posted, but the comments so far have been completely rude and useless.

Lets quit this crap and start fresh. My knife uses include, but are not limited to: Manix 2 BDS-1, Endura VG-10, old and new Voyagers in both VG-10 and AUS-8, PM2 S30v, Tenacious 8Cr, various Kershaws in 8Cr, Buck 420HC, Griptilian D2 and 154CM, Emerson 154CM, Kabars, old Master Hunter Carbon V and others. Im not aware of any of the stainless folders i have being offered in a carbon steel.

I willingly confess theres many carbon and stainless steels ive yet to try. COST BEING A FACTOR (see reason number 2). Hence the reason i wanted to know. Again, i directly asked for education. Please educate.

 

[Ankerson]

I posted my opinions and my own experience. Then asked for education. Kinda obvious and kind of the point. The response was rude and not helpful. Same as the troll comment.

I had really hoped Ankerson would enlighten me in this thread when i originally posted, but the comments so far have been completely rude and useless.

Lets quit this crap and start fresh. My knife uses include, but are not limited to: Manix 2 BDS-1, Endura VG-10, old and new Voyagers in both VG-10 and AUS-8, PM2 S30v, Tenacious 8Cr, various Kershaws in 8Cr, Buck 420HC, Griptilian D2 and 154CM, Emerson 154CM, Kabars, old Master Hunter Carbon V and others. Im not aware of any of the stainless folders i have being offered in a carbon steel.

I willingly confess theres many carbon and stainless steels ive yet to try. COST BEING A FACTOR (see reason number 2). Hence the reason i wanted to know. Again, i directly asked for education. Please educate.

Most of them are pretty low end except for the Emerson and the PM 2.

Spyderco does a good job with S30V so I am wondering what you are using to sharpen with etc if you think 10XX is better.

S30V is trivial to maintain.

 

[The Aflac Duck]

So you come in here to bash stainless steels, but you have hardly any experience with carbon steels

Ya know what, I don't think I like BMW's because all I drive is a ford

 

[Esav Benyamin]

Great. So instead of critiquing steel types we tell the OP to shut up and go sit in a corner. Western civilization is safe until the next new guy shows up.

 

[RX-79G]

I see a false paradigm:

Not all stainless is hard to sharpen, and not all "carbon steel" rusts easily. A2, 3V, 15N20 and D2 are not "stainless", but resist rust better than something like 1095. They also maintain an edge longer and are tougher, if you care about such things.


The recent trend of treating 1095 like a precious commodity and talking about the "special" heat treats some companies use is getting ridiculous. It is a steel so basic that they don't even make files out of it. Spending $100 on a 4" 10xx series knife is outrageous.

The other ridiculous thing I see is people calling stainless users "lazy" because they can't spend extra time oiling and wiping their knives, but at the same time are complaining that it stainless takes too long to sharpen. Huh? It's all knife maintenance - and you'll likely spend less time total maintaining the edge of a wear resistant stainless knife than you will sharpening AND oiling your 1095 knife.


I really like carbon steels and forge the occasional knife from them. I've also had them rust in drawers - which isn't so hot for maintaining an edge. If you like the way something like 1095 sharpens, there are likely better steels out there that have the same ease of sharpening, but also resist rust better and are tougher. So instead of making it sound like every steel falls on one side of the line or the other, investigate all the terrific steels that are right in between.

 

[Insipid Moniker]

One of the things you have to consider is that the steel choice should be appropriate for the knife. Most folders are small and complex when compared to fixed blades. Their intended uses also make the toughness of the steel chosen a tertiary concern. Low alloy steels are very tough and springy, but those properties are generally wasted in small knives that aren't going to be subjected to lots of impact or torque. Stain resistance, on the other hand, can be a major boon for said blades, partially because it can be difficult and take somewhat specialized equipment to fully service them.

 

[J85909266]

I disagree with the topic. I have tried carbon steels in folders and fixed blades, and did not find the performance superior to modern stainless and semi stainless options. I also didn't care for the constant cleaning and polishing.

 

[Jamesh Bond]

Read the OP Blues. No bashing. I said my experience with carbon has been preferential.

So to keep this moving in a positive direction:

Would some higher end (read more expensive) stainless steels give me a completely different perspective? Id like to try some when i can afford them. Big reason i started this thread. I read lots of people who love the low end steels im not super impressed with. The cost to performance ratio of the really nice stuff TO ME seems diminished based on what i hear.

Hint. Im trying to open my mind. Id like to know why other people like stainless. Low and high end.

 

[Jamesh Bond]

Most of them are pretty low end except for the Emerson and the PM 2.

Spyderco does a good job with S30V so I am wondering what you are using to sharpen with etc if you think 10XX is better.

S30V is trivial to maintain.

Sorry didnt see this one. I use diamonds and ceramic. Silicon carbide sometimes. Im truthfully not relatively impressed with the Emerson or PM2. Great edge retention on the PM, but hard to sharpen. My Master Hunter is a breeze. And i can use it camping for a week and it still shaves. I used a fresh edge to saw through a coffee can once in my dumber days, and it still treetopped hair.

 

[Ankerson]

Read the OP Blues. No bashing. I said my experience with carbon has been preferential.

So to keep this moving in a positive direction:

Would some higher end (read more expensive) stainless steels give me a completely different perspective? Id like to try some when i can afford them. Big reason i started this thread. I read lots of people who love the low end steels im not super impressed with. The cost to performance ratio of the really nice stuff TO ME seems diminished based on what i hear.

Hint. Im trying to open my mind. Id like to know why other people like stainless. Low and high end.

The low end stainless steels are just that, low alloy stainless steels that don't have any or a very low percentage of wear resistant carbides, it keeps the cost down so the knives are cheaper to manufacture. The edge retention will be very low, more like the simple carbon steels so the only benefit they have is being more stainless.

The mid range stainless steels have more alloy content and in wear resistant carbides to aid in edge retention and will hold an edge for a longer period of time in general.

The High End Stainless steels have a large percentage of wear resistant carbides that take edge retention to a much higher level.

Now, there are variables to consider such as sharpening, geometry, actual use and a number of other things that can and will have an effect on how long a blade will hold and edge.

 

[Insipid Moniker]

Read the OP Blues. No bashing. I said my experience with carbon has been preferential.

So to keep this moving in a positive direction:

Would some higher end (read more expensive) stainless steels give me a completely different perspective? Id like to try some when i can afford them. Big reason i started this thread. I read lots of people who love the low end steels im not super impressed with. The cost to performance ratio of the really nice stuff TO ME seems diminished based on what i hear.

Hint. Im trying to open my mind. Id like to know why other people like stainless. Low and high end.

It depends on what you're comfortable spending. Around $100 can get you S110V, Elmax, ZDP-189, S35VN or XHP. All of those will blow 1095 or similar steels completely out of the water if you're cutting any kind of abrasive media. Part of the key, though, is what you cut. In my day job I usually only have to open a box or two, maybe cut a little cardboard. For that, a lower end steel is more than enough. On the other side, I recently started a business where I might have to cut through rubber, rope, or most often, a few hundred feet of cardboard. That's when I want something with higher grade steel, as I don't like stopping to re-sharpen in the middle of the job.

 

[Ankerson]

Sorry didnt see this one. I use diamonds and ceramic. Silicon carbide sometimes. Im truthfully not relatively impressed with the Emerson or PM2. Great edge retention on the PM, but hard to sharpen. My Master Hunter is a breeze. And i can use it camping for a week and it still shaves. I used a fresh edge to saw through a coffee can once in my dumber days, and it still treetopped hair.

Setting the bevel on steels like S30V is important, once it's set maintenance should be trivial, extremely easy and fast, maybe a few passes on a ceramic.

 

[The Aflac Duck]

Read the OP Blues. No bashing. I said my experience with carbon has been preferential.

So to keep this moving in a positive direction:

Would some higher end (read more expensive) stainless steels give me a completely different perspective? Id like to try some when i can afford them. Big reason i started this thread. I read lots of people who love the low end steels im not super impressed with. The cost to performance ratio of the really nice stuff TO ME seems diminished based on what i hear.

Hint. Im trying to open my mind. Id like to know why other people like stainless. Low and high end.

I'm not bashing, I'm stating a point. And you came off kind of harsh way before I stepped into this thread...
But whatever...

Now were getting somewhere though. There's so many steels out there it crazy, but you always have to remember that the steel will only perform as good as the heat treat. This is something that a lot of people don't get.

If you want to learn about steel composition, look at this chart:
http://www.spyderco.com/edge-u-cation/SpydercoSteelChart14.pdf
That will show you how different each steel can be, now pair this with different heat treats and you get a vast array of different performing steels.

steels with a Chromium content above 12% is considered "stainless steel"

This is also a good read is you want to understand some of the higher end steels, but a lot of this information can be applied to all steels.
Straight from Crucible:http://www.crucibleservice.com/eselector/general/generalpart1.html

 

[Jamesh Bond]

Thx Blues. Ive read that and every other steel FAQ i can get my hands on. Also aware of HT and geometry. Not my first rodeo.

I didnt mean you were bashing. I meant i wasnt. My perceived harshness was simply a reaction to a rude reply that served no positive purpose.

But lets sweep up and start anew, shall we.

Stainless opinions?

 

[Insipid Moniker]

Thx Blues. Ive read that and every other steel FAQ i can get my hands on. Also aware of HT and geometry. Not my first rodeo.

I didnt mean you were bashing. I meant i wasnt. My perceived harshness was simply a reaction to a rude reply that served no positive purpose.

But lets sweep up and start anew, shall we.

Stainless opinions?

Sypderco Manix 2 Lightweight in S110V if you want something to really change your mind.