Why so stainless?

[Hawk45]

Always a good discussion, but there is no right answer. Everyone has different needs and tastes. Choose what is best for YOUR needs and wants and who cares about what anyone else thinks or uses.

I like knives with "character", something you can't get from stainless. Nothing like a good patina on carbon. I love many things about carbon.. many. I'm never far from Sharpmaker stick or some mineral oil and rag, so for me, carbon works.

That being said, sometimes stainless is called for, and that is why I have a diversity of knives and steels.

There is a right tool for every job.. choose wisely and never be disappointed.

 

[Jamesh Bond]

The low end stainless steels are just that, low alloy stainless steels that don't have any or a very low percentage of wear resistant carbides, it keeps the cost down so the knives are cheaper to manufacture. The edge retention will be very low, more like the simple carbon steels so the only benefit they have is being more stainless.

The mid range stainless steels have more alloy content and in wear resistant carbides to aid in edge retention and will hold an edge for a longer period of time in general.

The High End Stainless steels have a large percentage of wear resistant carbides that take edge retention to a much higher level.

Now, there are variables to consider such as sharpening, geometry, actual use and a number of other things that can and will have an effect on how long a blade will hold and edge.

This kind of goes back to my sales or cost reference. It seems to me that a carbon blade could be just as cheap to manufacture as a low end stainless, while performing closer to a higher end stainless. Minus corrosion resistance. Maybe im picky or admittedly unrealistic, but my lower end stainless blades, while perfectly acceptable, dont seem to give me the same experience others claim theirs do.

 

[Jamesh Bond]

It depends on what you're comfortable spending. Around $100 can get you S110V, Elmax, ZDP-189, S35VN or XHP. All of those will blow 1095 or similar steels completely out of the water if you're cutting any kind of abrasive media. Part of the key, though, is what you cut. In my day job I usually only have to open a box or two, maybe cut a little cardboard. For that, a lower end steel is more than enough. On the other side, I recently started a business where I might have to cut through rubber, rope, or most often, a few hundred feet of cardboard. That's when I want something with higher grade steel, as I don't like stopping to re-sharpen in the middle of the job.

Where are you finding those steels for $100 ?

 

[Insipid Moniker]

Where are you finding those steels for $100 ?

Spyderco Stretch in ZDP-189, Kershaw Blur in Elmax, the aforementioned Spyderco Manix 2 Lightweight in S110V, Spyderco Native 5 Lightweight numerous Kizer knives in S35VN, Cold Steel Recon 1 or Spyderco Chaparral Carbon Fiber in XHP.

 

[Ankerson]

This kind of goes back to my sales or cost reference. It seems to me that a carbon blade could be just as cheap to manufacture as a low end stainless, while performing closer to a higher end stainless. Minus corrosion resistance. Maybe im picky or admittedly unrealistic, but my lower end stainless blades, while perfectly acceptable, dont seem to give me the same experience others claim theirs do.

Low end stainless and the simple carbon steels are generally close in performance assuming a good Heat Treatment.

Now start getting into the higher alloy non-stainless like D2, 3V, 4V, M4, 10V and things change a lot and the cost goes up also.

I won't comment on the cost issue other than to say people generally get what they pay for, but that's not to say that one has to spend $500 on a knife either.

 

[RX-79G]

I'm wondering if AEBL would be a good steel for a carbon steel guy to play with. Very small carbides and grain.

 

[Ankerson]

I'm wondering if AEBL would be a good steel for a carbon steel guy to play with. Very small carbides and grain.

Zero carbides actually other than the basic that we don't count as there isn't enough carbon to pull any Chromium into the matrix.

So it's as simple as it gets really.

 

[David Martin]

Low end stainless and the simple carbon steels are generally close in performance assuming a good Heat Treatment.
Now start getting into the higher alloy non-stainless like D2, 3V, 4V, M4, 10V and things change a lot and the cost goes up also.

This echos my findings as well. Carbon steels are easy to sharpen and express good toughness. That's where the comparison ends. DM

 

[RX-79G]

Zero carbides actually other than the basic that we don't count as there isn't enough carbon to pull any Chromium into the matrix.

So it's as simple as it gets really.

Agreed. Yet AEBL is being compared to 52100 in terms of both edge stability and toughness. All while being full stainless. That should make anyone debating carbon vs SS thoughtful.

 

[Jamesh Bond]

Spyderco Stretch in ZDP-189, Kershaw Blur in Elmax, the aforementioned Spyderco Manix 2 Lightweight in S110V, Spyderco Native 5 Lightweight numerous Kizer knives in S35VN, Cold Steel Recon 1 or Spyderco Chaparral Carbon Fiber in XHP.

Good to know. Ill have to search again. I recall them being alot higher.

Thx for all the input everyone. Feeling alot more optimistic towards trying out some new stuff.

 

[midnight flyer]

Great. So instead of critiquing steel types we tell the OP to shut up and go sit in a corner. Western civilization is safe until the next new guy shows up.

No kidding. And then throw in the "I know more than you do because I have more posts and people like me better" attitude and it completely ruins these threads. That, and the "dogpiling" on to teach someone a lesson for a perceived slight make it almost impossible to have intelligent discourse. This place is more and more like the good old boys club of the cool kids, and then everyone that isn't cool.

Don't ask a question the wrong way. Don't express yourself incorrectly. Don't disagree with the herd. Don't disagree with the popular kids. Don't disagree with long held and precious beliefs of those with more posts than you have.

I see more and more of that around here these days.

I can't imagine how nasty this place would be without moderators.

Robert

 

[Ankerson]

Good to know. Ill have to search again. I recall them being alot higher.

Thx for all the input everyone. Feeling alot more optimistic towards trying out some new stuff.

Check Knife Works and Knife Center or GP Knives for prices.

All of them have accounts here on BF so it's OK to post or recommend.

 

[Ankerson]

No kidding. And then throw in the "I know more than you do because I have more posts and people like me better" attitude and it completely ruins these threads. That, and the "dogpiling" on to teach someone a lesson for a perceived slight make it almost impossible to have intelligent discourse. This place is more and more like the good old boys club of the cool kids, and then everyone that isn't cool.

Don't ask a question the wrong way. Don't express yourself incorrectly. Don't disagree with the herd. Don't disagree with the popular kids. Don't disagree with long held and precious beliefs of those with more posts than you have.

I see more and more of that around here these days.

I can't imagine how nasty this place would be without moderators.

Robert

Hardly...

We needed to know were the OP was coming from in the 1st place.

Once he posted what he actually wanted to know and more information the thread moved onto a positive. :thumbup:

 

[Jamesh Bond]

The original post stated everything i wanted to know. Input on stainless from others and why it is so popular. No further information from me was needed to answer that.

 

[Ankerson]

The original post stated everything i wanted to know. Input on stainless from others and why it is so popular. No further information from me was needed to answer that.

We need to know what you were basing your opinion on, that wasn't stated in the 1st post at all anywhere.

And wasn't until Post # 26 quoted here:

Lets quit this crap and start fresh. My knife uses include, but are not limited to: Manix 2 BDS-1, Endura VG-10, old and new Voyagers in both VG-10 and AUS-8, PM2 S30v, Tenacious 8Cr, various Kershaws in 8Cr, Buck 420HC, Griptilian D2 and 154CM, Emerson 154CM, Kabars, old Master Hunter Carbon V and others. Im not aware of any of the stainless folders i have being offered in a carbon steel.

I willingly confess theres many carbon and stainless steels ive yet to try. COST BEING A FACTOR (see reason number 2). Hence the reason i wanted to know. Again, i directly asked for education. Please educate.

 

[inkynate]

Thought you might like this video, OP.

[video=youtube_share;e50gujs4l-I]http://youtu.be/e50gujs4l-I[/video]

I'm a fan of carbon and low alloy steels for somes uses, but I'm more just a fan of knives and steels generally. Plenty of room for everyone on the bus

 

[SCWillson]

Always a good discussion, but there is no right answer. Everyone has different needs and tastes. Choose what is best for YOUR needs and wants and who cares about what anyone else thinks or uses.

I like knives with "character", something you can't get from stainless. Nothing like a good patina on carbon. I love many things about carbon.. many. I'm never far from Sharpmaker stick or some mineral oil and rag, so for me, carbon works.

That being said, sometimes stainless is called for, and that is why I have a diversity of knives and steels.

There is a right tool for every job.. choose wisely and never be disappointed.

+1

If one knife with one steel was perfect we'd all have the same knife.:-D

 

[Bigfattyt]

I'm not really a steel snob. I have more than a few stainless, 420 by Buck, a bunch of other stainless like Opinel's stainless, Krupp stainless, and lots of others I am too lazy to look up. I have a custom in 154CM, 440C (I believe), Ast32, Cold Steel stainless quite few like Aus8a, their Sanmai with the VG1 core and a hand full of others. I have a lot of plain old 1095 carbon (mostly in the form of GEC slipjoints). What ever Opinel uses for their carbon steel. I have some 5160 (with a back yard heat treat by me), one by Siegle (though that one was sold long ago), 52100 (by Swamprat), A2 by Busse, INFI, L6 from a custom maker, D2 (by Queen) and 1065, 1055, one 1075?


I'm no expert in anything. I can take any steel I own to hair whittling sharp, though I usually don't take it that far. I'm happy with a relatively sharp edge, sharp enough to pop hairs off the back of my hand in either direction with no pressure.

I don't have experience with any really high end, super steels.

The hardest to sharpen I have used is D2. It really took me a long time to to major re-profiling. Even with a belt sander, it took significantly longer than any other steel I have re-profiled.

In my use, simple carbon steels don't out perform alloy steels or stainless steels in any area, besides being easy to sharpen and re-profile.

I still use it, and buy it. With correct geometry, and decent heat treat it is good enough for me. But I don't do a lot of heavy work with my EDC's.

I don't work in a factory (have not done Agricultural work or factory work for more than 14 years now.

I do camp, and do "bushcraft" (if making fires and chopping down dead wood for the fire, or clearing a path through the stupid Russian Olive trees counts for anything).

In a similar knife, prices being equal, I will take high alloy, tool steel, etc over plain carbon. In pocket knives, I really like D2 for traditional folders, but find that he 1095 from GEC is ground thinner with better geometry than the Queen's in D2 that I have so far. I keep buying it, because it works, and I like the look of the steel as it gets used.

Probably just nostalgia. But I have knives from my Grandpa, and I like the look. My stainless look nicer, and newer even after the same use. I also find that the edge lasts longer on 420 from Buck, ats34 from Queen, D2 (significant increase in edge retention), 154CM (from a custom slipjoint maker).

Simple carbon, no matter how good the heat treat, can't match modern steels (both tool steel, high alloy steels, modern stainless steels, or various super steels) for edge retention, strength, etc.


You can change variables and tweak the steels for different applications (like super thin, very high hardness) for applications that will make the steel less suitable for all around uses.

But you can't make generalizations so sweeping as stainless steels are more brittle, or that they are more difficult to sharpen (I have some stainless that takes an edge easier than my simple carbon steels, and seems to hold it longer with the same profile- like Opinel's Inox compared to their carbon. It is higher hardness, I believe, so I feel like it should be harder to sharpen, but it is not).








Ankerson has more than a high post count. He is pretty knowledgeable in sharpening, and has demonstrated a lot of dedication to testing steels. Significant time, energy, and skill.

 

[jill jackson]

No kidding. And then throw in the "I know more than you do because I have more posts and people like me better" attitude and it completely ruins these threads. That, and the "dogpiling" on to teach someone a lesson for a perceived slight make it almost impossible to have intelligent discourse. This place is more and more like the good old boys club of the cool kids, and then everyone that isn't cool.

Don't ask a question the wrong way. Don't express yourself incorrectly. Don't disagree with the herd. Don't disagree with the popular kids. Don't disagree with long held and precious beliefs of those with more posts than you have.

I see more and more of that around here these days.

I can't imagine how nasty this place would be without moderators.

Robert

There's a couple of very loosely moderated sub forums where what you stated certainly applies here, check them out if you want to see it in full action.

 

[Ankerson]

There's a couple of very loosely moderated sub forums where what you stated certainly applies here, check them out if you want to see it in full action.

Yeah I know what you mean.

They can get excited pretty quickly.

Most of the forum is pretty tame however. :thumbup: