Why that grind if......

[Boris74]

Well, you gotta admit that it's pretty clear from his many, many posts on the subject he has done a tremendous amount of real work with his knives, while the rest of us just sit around posting on the internet.

Wait a minute...

Why do I convex most of my edges? I find a convex edge easier to maintain freehand.

And, actually, since I don't have some complicated rig for maintaining vee grinds, my vee grinds are a series of microbevels....which end up approaching a convexed edge anyway.

I wonder what edge grind Boris uses! Edge grinds are what the OP is asking about.

I knew you had it in you. So you sharpen some knives. You're getting close, but edge grinds was not his question. He inferred if the final edge ends up convex for most people then why do we need full flat, half flat, hollow, wedge, saber or scandi ground blades.

All I hear from you is how my answers are wrong. So redirect your energies and tell the OP why different grinds perform differently. Even help your case out and tell them your experiences in such matters. Or just keep telling me I'm wrong. It's kind of humorous to me with you chasing my shadow around telling me I'm wrong at every turn and that's it. Like I'm supposed to take you at your word I'm wrong. Lol.

 

[marcinek]

Like I'm supposed to take you at your word I'm wrong. Lol.

Actually, if you had read any of my replies to your posts, you would see I have never said you were wrong. What I said is that 1) you insist your opinions are fact; and 2) you insist the only way anyone could disagree with your opinion is through lack of experience or "real" work.

I really haven't seen any need to pay attention to the content your statements of "fact," I have only commented on the way you have presented them.

And I have told the OP why I convex my edges, precisely what he asked about.

Whats the point of different grinds if people are going to put the same edge on all their knives? Let's say i have a saber grind, scandi grind and a flat grind, then put convex edges on all them. Am i missing something or do i have no clue what am talking about?

 

[Mecha]

In my experience, I'm forgainst it. That's a fact.

 

[trevitrace]

In my experience, I'm forgainst it. That's a fact.

True story?

 

[stabman]

True story?

Nyes.
A complete statement of phact.

 

[ocnLogan]

Whats the point of different grinds if people are going to put the same edge on all their knives? Let's say i have a saber grind, scandi grind and a flat grind, then put convex edges on all them. Am i missing something or do i have no clue what am talking about?

The grind is a separate thing to consider than the very edge. The edge is the "sharpness" of the knife (simplification, as even "dull" knives can cut things if they have good geometry. So we'll call this "paper slicing sharpness"), while the grind determines more what happens when the rest of the knife is involved, or what they allow the very edge to be.

Full flat grinds slice through cardboard better than sabers or scandis of the same other dimensions. Hollow grinds allow the shoulders behind the edge to be much thinner (making the final edge angle more acute or "sharper"), while convex edges are more sturdy, because they can have more material behind the edge.

Myself, I like each grind for different reasons, even though I do sharpen them all just about the same (with the exception of scandi).

Cheers .

 

[Boris74]

Actually, if you had read any of my replies to your posts, you would see I have never said you were wrong. What I said is that 1) you insist your opinions are fact; and 2) you insist the only way anyone could disagree with your opinion is through lack of experience or "real" work.

I really haven't seen any need to pay attention to the content your statements of "fact," I have only commented on the way you have presented them.

And I have told the OP why I convex my edges, precisely what he asked about.

Well good job. You finally spit it out in a constructive manner. Now that you got it out of the way you can be done following me around telling me I'm wrong because you say so.

Back on topic. A full flat grind with a final convex edge will not react the same as a hollow grind with a convex final grind, or a scandi. that little micro convex won't make all grinds work exactly the same. It does help with initial bite and edge life but after that the grind takes over how well it reacts to varying tasks.

Have a nice evening sir.

 

[PURPLEDC]

Well good job. You finally spit it out in a constructive manner. Now that you got it out of the way you can be done following me around telling me I'm wrong because you say so.

Back on topic. A full flat grind with a final convex edge will not react the same as a hollow grind with a convex final grind, or a scandi. that little micro convex won't make all grinds work exactly the same. It does help with initial bite and edge life but after that the grind takes over how well it reacts to varying tasks.

Have a nice evening sir.

No one said you were wrong. Its not what you say but how you say it. If any of your sentences started with an IMHO there wouldnt really be an issue. In fact as a casual observer it would seem there is only one person telling others they are wrong. And its based on a ton of real work with knives. When you tell others that what works for them and how they do things is improper simply because its not how you do it that comes off as condescending. I think you wouldnt rub people the wrong way if you separated fact from opinion and clearly expressed each as such.

Might not jive with what you read and reposted but a strong steel in a hollow grind, like the better chopping axes, will chop wood better than a flat grind that wedges in and likes to stay in. I didn't read that anywhere or think it up by looking at diagrams or actual blades. I had to turn the computer off, well, actually learned before there was even a interweb to tell me what was best.

The bold underlined portions are a perfect example of the condescending expert tone. What works for you may not work for anyone but you. Your experience is NOT irrefutable proof of anything but what best serves you. If I do better at splitting wood with pair of toenail clippers than I do with a hollow ground wedge then for ME a pair of toenail clippers works better in my case despite whatever you have done.

 

[Bludgeon]

The posts of Boris have the most useful content by far, but his delivery can be a little harsh.
Reminds me of my father.

 

[Boris74]

A pencil sharpener makes the best shavings to make tinder, but we manly woods men don't use school kid tools to make fire, just big clunky knives.

 

[marcinek]

Well good job. You finally spit it out in a constructive manner. Now that you got it out of the way you can be done following me around telling me I'm wrong because you say so.

I'll be done when you stop claiming your opinions are facts, and that anyone who dares have a different opinion than yours is an inexperienced poseur slacker.

No doubt I won't be done for a while.

See ya next thread.

 

[druid189]

Based on what? Like the OP asked, lots of knives, especially after a few good sharpenings will be a combo. Axes being a prime example. The best chopping axes will be a hollow grind with a convex final grind. Same goes for a chopper knife. Full flat or half flat (some call it saber) ground blades do love to wedge in. So much so they require effort to remove them from wood on the chop. The hollow grind will bite deeper and push out chunks as it hits the concave part of the grind. The upper part of the concave portion pushes the wood off the surface of the steel, less friction, easier to remove from the log. Might not jive with what you read and reposted but a strong steel in a hollow grind, like the better chopping axes, will chop wood better than a flat grind that wedges in and likes to stay in. I didn't read that anywhere or think it up by looking at diagrams or actual blades. I had to turn the computer off, well, actually learned before there was even a interweb to tell me what was best.

Scandi grinds are also much better than just a general knife.

Flat grinds are most useful in the kitchen.

Looks to me like someone needs a

Based on what? How about actually reading what I typed? I said "Based on my experience"....which is coming up on 36 years of woods walking without a leash. You?

And since I never changed the angle in which I sharpen any blade, the blade grind has never changed for me. The "edge" that I put on that grind also never changes. I make them sharp....not try to reinvent the wheel. We have awesome custom knife makers to do that for us.

I was taught over 4 decades ago that "there's a reason for everything"....and there's obviously a reason why a blade is sharpened at a certain angle. I've done my absolute best to try and repeat the original blade angles and it has worked out splendidly. It takes extra time and effort to duplicate what's there but it's well worth the effort in my opinion.

I stand by what I said in my revised first response...based upon using those four grinds over a 36 year time frame. A time frame of unsupervised woodscrafting that is probably longer than you've been breathing?

--------------

Anyway.....

If I had a "preferred" grind to accomplish what I do most in the woods - and that's taking everything into consideration......hunting/game processing, chopping, batonning and general woods-crafting - I'd have to say a "high flat" grind [as depicted in my one post up there ^ ] is probably my most favored grind [although I always have 3 or more blades and usually of different grinds].

 

[Boris74]

Looks to me like someone needs a

Based on what? How about actually reading what I typed? I said "Based on my experience"....which is coming up on 36 years of woods walking without a leash. You?

And since I never changed the angle in which I sharpen any blade, the blade grind has never changed for me. The "edge" that I put on that grind also never changes. I make them sharp....not try to reinvent the wheel. We have awesome custom knife makers to do that for us.

I was taught over 4 decades ago that "there's a reason for everything"....and there's obviously a reason why a blade is sharpened at a certain angle. I've done my absolute best to try and repeat the original blade angles and it has worked out splendidly. It takes extra time and effort to duplicate what's there but it's well worth the effort in my opinion.

I stand by what I said in my revised first response...based upon using those four grinds over a 36 year time frame. A time frame of unsupervised woodscrafting that is probably longer than you've been breathing?

--------------

Anyway.....

If I had a "preferred" grind to accomplish what I do most in the woods - and that's taking everything into consideration......hunting/game processing, chopping, batonning and general woods-crafting - I'd have to say a "high flat" grind [as depicted in my one post up there ^ ] is probably my most favored grind [although I always have 3 or more blades and usually of different grinds].

So you've sharpened a few knives, awesome. So that means hollow grinds are made for the kitchen and flat grinds belong outdoors. Because you sharpened a few knives.

Don't worry about your unleashed years, it's about a year less than my unleashed years. What I can tell you is my 11 year old boy prefers a hollow grind for his outdoor heavy work and a puukko for fine light work. I'd say he has bit more woods sense. I let him develop his preferred tools for each use on his own, he's figuring it out pretty good.

The reply under your revised first response asked you about your double chisel comment, still waiting for an explaination for that one too. Tackle that one next.

All the knives in our kitchen are flat ground btw, not a single tomato crush safe hollow grind in that room of the house.

 

[marcinek]

I'll be done when you stop claiming your opinions are facts, and that anyone who dares have a different opinion than yours is an inexperienced poseur slacker.

No doubt I won't be done for a while.

See ya next thread.

Guess I'm still not done.

 

[skyhorse]

Different grinds are for different tasks.

:thumbup:

 

[Insipid Moniker]

All the knives in our kitchen are flat ground btw, not a single tomato crush safe hollow grind in that room of the house.

And this is a good example of why experience isn't everything, because it can be limited in a number of ways. As I stated above, really good kitchen cutlery tends to feature a convex primary grind to help achieve both a leaner grind and to reduce food sticking to the blade. It gets even more interesting when you get into edge grinds, as Japanese kitchen cutlery often features an asymmetric edge grind and the knives are thus biased for either right or left handed users. The advantage of the asymmetric edge is that it reduces parasitic drag and increases cutting efficiency (when using it in the correct hand).

 

[Quiet]

So you've sharpened a few knives, awesome. So that means hollow grinds are made for the kitchen and flat grinds belong outdoors. Because you sharpened a few knives.

Don't worry about your unleashed years, it's about a year less than my unleashed years. What I can tell you is my 11 year old boy prefers a hollow grind for his outdoor heavy work and a puukko for fine light work. I'd say he has bit more woods sense. I let him develop his preferred tools for each use on his own, he's figuring it out pretty good.

The reply under your revised first response asked you about your double chisel comment, still waiting for an explaination for that one too. Tackle that one next.

All the knives in our kitchen are flat ground btw, not a single tomato crush safe hollow grind in that room of the house.

I find it amusing that you're attempting to condescend to his experience when it's actually the same as your own. You literally have no call to speak authoritatively on...well, anything. SAVE US OBI WAN, YOU'RE OUR ONLY HOPE!!

 

[PURPLEDC]

So you've sharpened a few knives, awesome. So that means hollow grinds are made for the kitchen and flat grinds belong outdoors. Because you sharpened a few knives.

Don't worry about your unleashed years, it's about a year less than my unleashed years. What I can tell you is my 11 year old boy prefers a hollow grind for his outdoor heavy work and a puukko for fine light work. I'd say he has bit more woods sense. I let him develop his preferred tools for each use on his own, he's figuring it out pretty good.

The reply under your revised first response asked you about your double chisel comment, still waiting for an explaination for that one too. Tackle that one next.

All the knives in our kitchen are flat ground btw, not a single tomato crush safe hollow grind in that room of the house.

Well I dont know about anyone else. But I am impressed.

 

[Shotgun]

Don't worry about your unleashed years, it's about a year less than my unleashed years. What I can tell you is my 11 year old boy prefers a hollow grind for his outdoor heavy work and a puukko for fine light work. I'd say he has bit more woods sense. I let him develop his preferred tools for each use on his own, he's figuring it out pretty good.

Wow. Age isn't the same as maturity. I could have sworn you were the 11 year old boy by the way you talk. I fully disagree that you want a concave axe. You're the first person I've seen to EVER recommend that.

OP: I sharpen to a convex edge like Marcinek. It's easy to maintain and I sharpen by hand so a true flat would be near impossible anyway. Convexed edges have worked very well for everything that I've used them on so I have no reason to switch to a sharpening rig to get them flat.

The reason I choose different primary grinds is because I see more of a difference in use between them then I do between a flat or convexed edge bevel.

 

[ApacheWolf]

"My Father Can Beat Up Your Father"