Why the Low Prices in the Knifemakers For Sale Forum?

I think there are many great comments on this topic. I also think your name in the industry is a big deal.

I am new, I am a part time/ hobby maker, and I try to sell blades and sheaths to help with my graduate school income. No one has honestly talked to me about how to price knives.

I was told when I started if you can get your materials costs back then you are doing good, which has been mentioned already, but after than you are on your own. I think part of it is maybe these people are not immersed in the knife world yet, like me. I can't travel to shows etc that normal full time makers do.
 
John Katt said:
It almost feels like there is more money in the supply chain then actually making knives
Click to expand...

Well sure, it's the same in the auto industry if you add up all the stuff that goes into it, compared to the profit on the cars themselves. At the handmade level, that's actually one of the attractive parts of knifemaking... you don't need hundreds of dollars of material to make a great knife (unless you get into damascus and ivory and stuff - but the collector/art knife market is yet another ball of wax). It's mostly labor.

Which is why the guys sweating their mortgage get a little pissy when they get undercut by cats selling halfway-decent knives at half "cost". It can discourage people from taking the step up to serious craftsmanship and buying into a maker who's actually going to be around in five or ten or thirty years.
 
james terrio said:
Well sure, it's the same in the auto industry
Click to expand...

Funny you should mention the auto industry and this thread is about guys playing cut throat, A buddy of mine and his father for years made a good living simply cutting sheets of foam rubber into gaskets with sticky tape on the back and shipping them to GM, Every two or three years the contract went out for bids, They finally lost the contract to another small U.S. company and then a few years later that company lost to the Chinese

kind of a Vicious Cycle, quality getting driven out by cheaper and faster
 
Right, and that's my whole point. You just can't run a small artisan shop trying to do what the big boys do. At that point you might as well keep your hands clean, farm everything out and hire a few guys to assemble the parts, put out a ton of hype and charge handmade prices for it... oh wait, there's a few well-known "makers" doing exactly that... ;)

( no, I'm not referring to anyone here in ST. )
 
I think there is something that no one really mentioned on here yet. Could it be the possibility that there are many makers that feel as though they're not good enough to justify a higher price? I've seen the discussions on here that it seems for whatever reason (technology, more information, etc) that more and more makers are turning out much better quality knifes on even their first knife than maybe would be expected. Or maybe what was the norm before that days of everyone having tons of information at their fingertips. With the amount of information online and especially here anyone with any modest ability with hand tools and or power tools and some creativity seem to be turning out pretty damn good looking knives if they take their time. Almost every day someone will post their first knife or whatever number it is in the early stages and a lot of them look like it could be their 50th knife. But a lot of us (like most craftsmen or artist) are our own worst critic.

Ian is a perfect example his work is excellent but he feels as though maybe he's not at the level where he could charge prices like a well known maker simply so maybe he sells himself short a bit. Even though I don't make many knives I plan on getting back into my shop (garage) to finish up one I've been working on FOREVER just need it to be a bit warmer. But I've gotten some pats on the back with the some of the things I've shown people online here and in person but no way I'd even consider selling anything anytime soon. So could it be possible that some folks on here look at it like "well I'm not very experienced at this but I think this is a decent enough knife that someone might like so I'll sell it for the cost of materials and try to maybe put "X" bucks in my pocket because it's "X" more than I'd have... plus I enjoy making them".

I don't THINK people on here are intentionally trying to undercut people or make it a race to the bottom and I'm just spitballing here but I know for myself, if I did get to the point where I thought I might want to try and sell something I'd price it similar to what I said, cover materials and maybe put a couple bucks in my pocket. I think that's what a lot of hobbyist are doing. I mean there's plenty of makers on here who have said when they first started that gave away their first however many knives. I'm assuming this was back before the internet was a "thing" so you'd give them to friends, family, co workers, etc. Now you can sell anything online, maybe not for a huge price or profit but someone will buy any knife like object that looks halfway decent made by hand for the cost of, or less than the cost of something they'd buy from China or wherever that they'd get in Wally World. Just my .01 (racing to the bottom ;))
 
Fletch Helical said:
I think there is something that no one really mentioned on here yet. Could it be the possibility that there are many makers that feel as though they're not good enough to justify a higher price?
Click to expand...
I KNOW that is happening... I have seen some great work from skilled individuals go for what can only be a loss. Believe in your worth, guys. Making a name for yourself will be harder to do if the potential collectors don't see confidence. Oddly enough, it sometimes works against you to not ask a high-end price for a high-end knife. You won't get your artwork in a gallery, selling it for the price of canvas and paint. Do yourself a favour... go to art galleries/shows and see how much the paintings go for... heck, see how much just the prints of paintings go for!

Truth be told, I wasn't selling until my good friend and mentor, Wally Hayes, pretty much kicked my butt for cheapening myself and the time he invested into me. I thought long and hard to find a price I was willing to test the waters with. It was really scary to raise my prices but to be honest with myself and continue doing this, I had to. To my surprise(not Wally's) I started selling like hotcakes. I still think I have room to move but am comfortable where I'm at. I don't make enough to sock away for vacations, yet... but I think I found a sweet spot in the market where both the my clients and I walk away feeling it was a good deal.:thumbup:
 
Last edited:
Rick Marchand said:
I KNOW that is happening... I have seen some great work from skilled individuals go for what can only be a loss. Believe in your worth, guys. Making a name for yourself will be harder to do if the potential collectors don't see confidence. Oddly enough, it sometimes works against you to not ask a high-end price for a high-end knife. You won't get your artwork in a gallery, selling it for the price of canvas and paint. Do yourself a favour... go to art galleries/shows and see how much the paintings go for... heck, see how much just the prints of paintings go for!

Truth be told, I wasn't selling until my good friend and mentor, Wally Hayes, pretty much kicked my butt for cheapening myself and the time he invested into me. I thought long and hard to find a price I was willing to test the waters with. It was really scary to raise my prices but to be honest with myself and continue doing this, I had to. To my surprise(not Wally's) I started selling like hotcakes. I still think I have room to move but am comfortable where I'm at. I don't make enough to sock away for vacations, yet... but I think I found a sweet spot in the market where both the my clients and I walk away feeling it was a good deal.:thumbup:
Click to expand...

We are too often our own worst critic/s. Been guilty of that many, many times. My solution to become more confident with my work has been improving my skills to the point where I can feel good and confident about my work.....process is ongoing :D
 
If you are a knifemaker who is not making enough money, here are a few questions to ask yourself:

1) How much marketing are you doing every day?

2) Are you making knives you like, or what is popular with collectors?

3) How much marketing are you doing every day?

4) Are you willing to make knives you do not like?

5) How much marketing are you doing every day?

6) Are you willing to use materials you do not like?

7) How much marketing are you doing every day?

8) Are you making the best knives possible or are you cutting corners?

9) How much marketing are you doing every day?

10) Are you studying financially successful knifemakers to determine why they are successful?

The quote from Bailey Bradshaw is very important. A very small percentage of the world knows about custom knives. We as a community must get more customers. How do you do this? Marketing.

Have you attended successful shows? If no, why? Successful show are successful because they attract collectors who want to buy knives. I recommend attending all of the following shows: AKI, Solvang, TKI and USN Gathering. Blade Show is important, but it has become more of a trade show than a "get to know collectors" show. BTW, attending does not mean having a table. Go to the show and mingle with the collectors, watch what is selling, attend lotteries, etc. After the show ask yourself if the collectors at the show would be interested in your knives. If the answer is no you have two choices:
1) Make different knives that will sell
2) Market your existing knives to people who will buy them i.e; build your own collector base.

There are custom knifemakers making yearly incomes of six and seven figures. Most of them keep their heads down working except for when they are marketing. Taking time to market your knives is hard, but essential to your success. BTW, posting in the Shop Talk is not marketing! ;)

When you see a man on top of a mountain, he did not fall there.

Chuck
 
I think part of the problem is that when we see work from masters like Frank, Nick, Rick, Phillip and Salem, it can have a tendency to make one see ones own work as amateurish.

This is not to say I want to see less work from the masters. On the contrary. But it should be understood that in the shadows of giants it is often challenging to take much pride in being a tallish dwarf. ;)
 
Professional services (from Google)
Professional services are occupations in the tertiary sector of the economy requiring special training in the arts or sciences. Some professional services require holding professional licenses such as architects, auditors, engineers, doctors and lawyers.

(And I'll add knifemakers to that list)

am·a·teur
(ăm′ə-tûr′, -tər, -cho͝or′, -chər, -tyo͝or′)
n.
1. A person who engages in an art, science, study, or athletic activity as a pastime rather than as a profession.
2. Sports An athlete who has never accepted money, or who accepts money under restrictions specified by a regulatory body, for participating in a competition.
3. One lacking the skill of a professional, as in an art.
adj.
1. Of or performed by an amateur.
2. Made up of amateurs: an amateur cast.
3. Not professional; unskillful.

I chose 'amateur' instead of 'hobbyists' because I could only find a definition of hobbisit as someone who pursues a hobby. I find that amateur = hobbyist in order to explain myself :).

Reading the definitions above...the difference is money.

Yes, an amateur can make the same quality knife as a professional. Maybe even better than some. But that maker is doing it for the joy of making it. He enjoyed making it SOOO much, no pressure, expressing his /her creativity freely, there is no way that the end knife is worth as much a 'professional' named knife. Armatures don't put 'TIME' in figuring their costs, after all, it's too much fun.

Want to turn that fun into a business...follow all the great advice in this thread.
 
John Katt said:
I would think that the steady rise in new makers is directly tied to the unemployment rate going up (2006 2007), a fella sitting at home, no job, runs across this site and says "hey I can do that"
http://www.kniferights.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=80&Itemid=29
Click to expand...

Maybe- my first guess though would be an aging population, many of whom can afford to have a little hobby in semi- or full retirement.
You should see the regional blacksmithing conferences- 80% retired guys, 10% kids, 10% working blacksmiths, or so it seems. :)
 
I guess it depends on the knife? I can buy a bark river fox river in cpm 3v for $200 with bolster all day long. It's a good quality knife and for makers to compete they either have to have a much more desired handle material or handle and leather design in order to compete IMO. As many people are familiar with this name brand and they know what they are getting at that price range.
 
I am new at this, but I see a distinction between a hobbyist knocking a few knives out on a 1x30 and a 2 brick forge, from someone with a kiln, rockwell tester, 2x72, and various other nice tools. 1 year ago, I could do 1-2 small knives per month. I can do a 3 piece skinner in about 3 hours now (less HT/ tempering time) My first bowie took me three months to finish. There is no way I was competition to any other maker because the quality and production level weren't there. Now, I am getting what I believe is a reasonable price for what I am doing. I get $150-$225 for a nice skinner or small hunter. I get up to $500.00 for a small bowie. I know my heat treat is good. I verify it. I had one knife come back from before I had my Rc tester. The blade didn't harden properly and I replaced it for free with a much nicer knife. One thing to consider is perceived value. If you price too low, people believe there is something wrong with your product. The other thing to consider is the limited number of people who are aware of the performance difference between customs and production knives. I do not see myself looking to take customers away from the production knives. I see myself looking to sell to people who still believe in craftsmanship, a one off design, or customized to their needs. I am finding kitchen knives are a far more effective way to get your name out. I have a customer/friend with 5 of my knives, and he is using skinners in the kitchen. He ordered a couple kitchen knives, and friends of his are ordering kitchen knives now. They are good customers in that they don't tell me what they want specifically now, they tell me what they want it to do, and I make it. (My designs and geometry work better than the designs they come up with.) They are happier, and I am happier.
 
Smithy said:
Reading the definitions above...the difference is money.
Click to expand...

I think I understand your point, but I respectfully and strongly disagree that it's just about money. I'm dang sure not in this to get rich quick, and my clients are not quibbling over a few bucks here or there.

I spend a lot of time and effort keeping my prices in line with certain manufacturers that provide similar knives to mine. That's indeed a function of money/cost/etc... I have to sell knives to pay my bills. What I offer to compete with them is a much higher level of fit/finish, better steel and more comfortable/usefull designs, the pesky details of specific HT processes for ultimate durability, and most importantly, better performance. But there's a personal/emotional component as well.

My client-base continues to increase every month, and I am very pleased by the percentage of prior customers who order more knives from me. Why do they do that? I believe it's because they...

A) Realize that I provide a superior product at a competitive price.
B) Understand that I put a boatload of time into every detail.
C) Enjoy the process of dealing directly with me, not some faceless marketing nitwit, or some doofus who's made a couple half-vast knives in his spare time.
D) Know that I am truly passionate about what I do. This a lifelong career choice for me, not a hobby or sideline. I've put everything I owned on the chopping block to make this happen. And quite frankly, I've never been happier or more excited to wake up every day and get to work. My clients trust me to be there for them six months or a decade from now.

That, my friends, is what separates the wannabees from the professionals.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top