Why Use Carbon Steel?

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I think we all want to believe that there's a fast, solid, easy answer to everything, and if such was the case, there wouldn't be threads like this. Much of one's results will hinge on factors beyond what alloy is chosen. Do your own research, consider contacting folks outside the knifemaking world to discuss these things with. Too often people come to forums seeking answers from the sages, and frankly, knifemaking has become even more inbred than it was years ago - and larger, too. The same arguments permeate, only with factions and splinters of cult followers, most of whom don't bother to ask bigger questions or examine the topic from a broader perspective. There's lots of great answers here, but there's also a lot of heresay regurgitation, too.

Reach beyond the arena we play in - there is a wealth of incredible information stemming from other areas. Find it and use it!!!!
 
I feel that it's a great cutting steel that cost less, is easier for the smith to work, and has a wide forgivness factor if the maker is having an off day it is less likely to be ruined. It is also easier to sharpen and is generally less brittle that a lot of the so called super steels.

If I lived near the ocean or in a highly humid environment that is generally hostile to carbon steel or if I used knives with the frequency and in a manor that the super steels will make my day much easier then my views may differ.
 
Bottom line. Guys like the latest, greatest, best. Just look at how new tech comes out every year and waves of guys buy it to be on the cutting edge (golf clubs, archery gear, guns, fishing gear) why should knives, and the materials they are made from be any different. Carbon steels, stainless, powdered, titanium, cryo treated, it goes on and on. YES technology advances, and some steels have properties more suited than others to a given "problem". If there was one "best" answer, we'd all be using it I guess. But as it stands, we have choices based on what we want in the way of performance (in manufacture and use). Anyone who says "stainless is best" or "carbon is best" as a blanket statement, is not credible.
 
Ah. The lower tungsten stuff sounds a bit like 115W8 (1.15C around 2 Tungsten and some other stuff) Also replaced with high speed steel for metal cutting blades in Germany.
DevinT said:
F1, F2, F3 were common tool steels back in the day. They are high carbon steels with 1.25% carbon and 1.5-3.5% tungsten. Some had additional small amounts of cr or mo. They have been replaced with high speed steels today.

The closest thing today is blue-super. Roman Landes lists it in the back of his book, Russ Andrews has used it in the past. I've never used it. Looks good on paper.

O7 is similar to F1.

Hoss
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One can answer this stainless steel question very easily. But first lets look at what performance and edge retention even mean, because it depends on the context.

In an abrasive application like slitting cardboard you need a large carbide volume fraction and a matrix that supports that carbide. Chromium carbides are both soft and poorly cohesive compared to other kinds of carbide. A high performance steel in this application would be something like A11, a non-stainless

On the other end of the spectrum you have edge retention in rough use and impact, like a power wood chipper, and you'd see something like A8. Again, a non-stainless.

For a good combination of properties in a cutlery application with both good abrasive wear and high toughness and edge stability, 3V is working out to be one of the all time best. Again, non-stainless.

In thin sections and high hardness, no steel has won as many world cutting championships as CPM M4. yup, non-stainless

Vanadis 4 Extra, winner of the last several cut championships, non-stainless

I can think of no examples of a no-compromise high performance steel application where a stainless steel represents the pinnacle of performance. And that's because, once you add enough chromium to be very stain resistant you have a significant amount of non-martensitic material compromising the matrix. And, to me, the thought of using something like 440C stainless in an extreme application like a real sword is absurd. A wall hanger, yeah, but not the real thing.

There really is no question that a stainless steel represents a compromise to achieve corrosion resistance. There's no debate. I think a better question would be simple steel verses complex steel. W2 verses 3V for example.
 
this could be even more fun if we considered carbon core with stainless cladding also, or any soft cladding for that matter
 
Also whether or not those laminates were designed to compensate for issue that can pop up when using less than ideal manufacturing processes...........like the ones that the traditional Japanese smiths use even in 2016. Yeah, i'm gonna catch some grief for that one, but remember that those guys are about the only ones who seem to still believe that forging blades from pure, pristine monosteel somehow requires a lot more skill and experience than forge welding and forging laminated/pattern welded blades. :D
timos- said:
this could be even more fun if we considered carbon core with stainless cladding also, or any soft cladding for that matter
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valknut said:
wow as a new guy just learning about all this, this is a VERY interesting read. All the hype on the interwebs is mainly 1095, 1084, D2, 52100 so it's very confusing for someone just getting started on what steel to try. there definitely seems to be a bunch of hate towards SS.
thanks for the info gents
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Start with a carbon like 1084 because first and foremost it is cheap, and secondly easy to heat treat and work with. You won't feel bad diving in and making some crap blades. (providing yu are talking about making them and not buying, but my .02$ still holds true)

A lot of good knives have been made with basic high carbon steel for a long time. Personally I do think some of these popular stainless steels are better at a lot of things, but rust resistance is near the bottom of my list of needs in a blade. Even if it was left outside for 3 seasons I would soak it in vinegar and sharpen it, then keep using it. (hopefully the handle is still ok).
Cost is close to the top of my list, as I don't have much to throw around these days. Someone mentioned these stainless blades are "significantly" better than carbon steel, I would say it's closer to the word "marginally". An example is Bark River, I will take the cheaper version in A2 any day.
 
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