Why Won't Noss Stand Behind His "Work?"

[Phil Elmore]

I "singled him out" because he's recently been the topic of several threads discussing the validity of his "work," and because the attention afforded those "tests" has direct bearing on the businesses of the makers whose work he is criticizing.

 

[Kiah]

personal reasons would be my idea of noss disguising himself, whatever those reasons might be...
anyway, maybe some good old member would point me in the right direction to find out why was cliff stamp banned from BF...im curious and didnt understood why, because as i see it, he has great knowledge in knives...
thanks

It was a cumulative affect of under the breath insults to makers. The nail in the coffin was badmouthing the forum that gave him his soapbox.

 

[Kiah]

I "singled him out" because he's recently been the topic of several threads discussing the validity of his "work,"

So you started a thread to question the "validity of his work", based on the fact that there are several threads discussing the "validity of his work"?

and because the attention afforded those "tests" has direct bearing on the businesses of the makers whose work he is criticizing.

You mean like the attention you're giving them right now?

 

[Fred Sanford]

I voted. I think he is either Cleft Stump or someone else that hides behind his masks because he has something, or multiple somethings to hide.

There is NO valid reason I can think of whereby one who is trying to be taken seriously and offering his so called "knife tests" over the Internet, must hide his face and identity.

Any of you folks here who say, 'his reasons are his own' or 'that's his own business' are just enabling him to perform his "Tom Foolery" in either videos, pictures or written form.

The ultimate goal and the end result of his alleged "knife tests" are nothing more than the pure destruction of a perfectly good knife in most cases. Knives are tools that are built to CUT THINGS softer than the steel it was made out of.

If one wants to chop wood, then one buys an axe or a hatchet.
If one wants to beat concrete blocks, then one buys a sledgehammer.
If one wants to pry something, then one buys a crowbar.

Its called, getting the right tool for the job at hand..

I could do this all day. But I've go to go hunting soon and use MY knife for what it was intended to do ....... CUT.

Holy crap dude! I couldn't agree more. That's about as well put as I've seen. I personally just don't "get" his tests. I don't understand them and see no valid use of smashing a good blade on a concrete block. I have NEVER needed to use a knife on a concrete block. I carry things that would be more suited to the job than a knife. I would rather hit a concrete block with a pry bar or a hammer or screwdriver.

Maybe if I were in Iraq or Afghanistan and I were trapped inside a building with no way out because the building has caved in on me I would maybe think about using my knife to hatchet away at concrete. However I really doubt it would do any good at all. Besides, the stuff they have over there is typically not concrete per se, it's something entirely different.

 

[tomcrx]

What a lame poll. All choices reflect answers that the poller, i.e. Phil wants or considers OK. You have a future in bad politics

 

[Phil Elmore]

You have a future in being childish.

 

[busselover]

Last time I checked, it was a free country. A guy beats knives until they break. Some break easier than others. So what. Don't like it, ignore it.

WTF made Phil the Martialist the moral arbiter for the free world? So the guy wants to remain anonymous and that insults your sense of right and wrong? WTF are you to decide for the rest of us what Noss "should" or shouldn't do? What is "responsible" and what isn't? If you can't find bigger and more important offenses to your moral sensibilities in this world then you might start at home by questioning your own moral/ethical framework.

 

[Eight Trigrams]

When one posts one's criticism publicly, one should take responsibility for it publicly.

Sooooooooooooooo many anonymous people post criticisms publicly on this forum that this statement is absurd. I'll even add to the list. Here goes..

I think SOG Knives are unresponsive to their customer base. There you have it. I'm a terrible human being now.

Why would you single Noss out? Because he actually has more to back his criticisms up than conjecture and anecdotes? I honestly don't know why ANYONE here would have a problem with his videos. I own a number of blades that Noss has tested. Some do well, some don't. Some of the ones that do great, I love, some of the ones that didn't... well I love them too. I still would like to know what they're capable of in terms of toughness, among other thing. And I sure as hell am NOT gonna destroy any of them just to see where and how they fail first.

Are his tests the most accurate in terms of repeatable methodology? No, but they're a hell of a lot better than nothing. Show me ONE manufacturer that tests any of their own knives to destruction (TO DESTRUCTION, not Cold Steel "OMG i stabbded a car dor r0xx0rz!!!"-type advertising stunts) and publishes the results. Hell, show me one Consumer Reports-type watchdog group who does it.

Sorry Charlie, but we're it.

So really, it's OUR responsibility as a knife community to find out what these manufacturer's knives are capable of and yes, of maybe even posting a negative review every now and again when the knife deserves it, otherwise we're no better than any advertiser-owned knife magazine out there. And until more people in this community are willing to abuse or sacrifice knives for the sake of knowledge (and post pics!), I think we owe Noss more than Noss owes us his name.

 

[rick43t3]

It's a question of responsibility. "Noss" makes public information that others use to form opinions about the work of various makers/manufacturers. If he is not willing to take responsibility for that work, it calls into question his credibility. In other words, it is less than honest to engage in these public campaigns for or against specific knives if one is not then willing to stand behind the results.

Because the "tests" are not "tests" at all, but stunts, it makes perfect sense that he wouldn't want to have his real identity linked to them. I'm raising this issue publicly because he has no problem doing it to others on the basis of his destruction of their work.

I just watched the video on youtube. The so called test is nonesense. Sticking a knife through heavy gauge steel proves what? If one were to do such foolish stunts, it make sense that they would not want their identity known to the public. The so called test equates to someone driving their car through a brick wall and having it damaged, and then comparing this performance to that of a military tank. A knife is not designed to be an axe or a metal punch. It is not a test in any sense of the word. Just a guy in a mask doing something stupid.

 

[Eight Trigrams]

You have a future in being childish.

No... I agree with him. For someone who complains so loudly about Noss' tests being unscientific, you sure know how to make a totally biased, unscientific poll.

 

[Eight Trigrams]

I just watched the video on youtube. The so called test is nonesense. Sticking a knife through heavy gauge steel proves what? If one were to do such foolish stunts, it make sense that they would not want their identity known to the public. The so called test equates to someone driving their car through a brick wall and having it damaged, and then comparing this performance to that of a military tank. A knife is not designed to be an axe or a metal punch. It is not a test in any sense of the word. Just a guy in a mask doing something stupid.

That's why it's called a destruction test, not a see-how-long-we-can-rub-this-knife-with-this-silk-handkerchief test.

 

[Culpeper]

I had never heard of this "Noss" until the thread about the value of his "tests" came up.

I demand that Noss reveal his identity and thus take public responsibility for the statements he makes public about others' work. Failure to do so indicates that he has something to hide, and that he understands on some level that his "tests" are less than he is presenting them to be.

I spared the reader most of your subjective smear campaign. But to state the least, contempt prior to investigation is a weakness. Theonew put up a poll and numbers speak for themselves. Theonew closed down the thread when it became counter-productive. That caused more stress than a select few could bear. In essence, by closing that thread he brought out some dwarfs with parody polls. Dwarfs suffer from the Neopleon Complex and like to beat dead horse subject matter. Your demand is not worth the zeroes and ones it comprises. The person in question owes the public nothing. Freedom of expression is a right in his land of plenty. Your raid is just a sympton of the Lord of the Flies Syndrome and just another viruii trying to start a little plague.

 

[Fred Sanford]

"This message is hidden because Sharp Phil is on your ignore list."

Gotta love it.

 

[Culpeper]

"This message is hidden because Sharp Phil is on your ignore list."

Gotta love it.

Gotta love it!!!!

 

[STAGE 2]

I demand that Noss reveal his identity and thus take public responsibility for the statements he makes public about others' work. Failure to do so indicates that he has something to hide, and that he understands on some level that his "tests" are less than he is presenting them to be.

If Noss was only making blanket conclusions from some remote corner of the interweb you may have a point. However thats not what he does. He tests knives and films the entire process. Whatever conclusions he reaches are based on these tests. As a result, there is no "public responsibility" to be taken because everything he sees, we see.

Knowing who Noss is would make absolutely no difference on what he does, so its completely irrelevant. And has been stated above, the knifemakers DO know who he is so that pretty much destroys your argument unless you are going to insist that he has an obligation to account to every Tom Dick and Harry here on bladeforums. Of course that would mean every person here who doesn't use his real name is a fraud. Are you going to make that assertion?

Of course that brings me to the larger issue here. You apparently have this view that unless someone reveals their personal identity their statements are irrelevant. I've come across this sentiment before, most commonly on gun forums. Massad Ayoob is a fan of this tactic and has employed it several times in various arguments him and I have had. Its almost always a sign that things are going bad.

The problem is that this type of argument is a complete logical fallacy. Who I am has nothing to do with whether my statements are valid or not. By doing this, you are trying to divert the discussion from the topic at hand, to the person. Thats a no no. So its kind of ironic that you are claiming Noss is doing something wrong when you have to resort to such tactics to make the accusation.

 

[Elen]

Knives are tools that are built to CUT THINGS softer than the steel it was made out of.

If one wants to chop wood, then one buys an axe or a hatchet.
If one wants to beat concrete blocks, then one buys a sledgehammer.
If one wants to pry something, then one buys a crowbar.

Its called, getting the right tool for the job at hand..

I could do this all day. But I've go to go hunting soon and use MY knife for what it was intended to do ....... CUT.

All right, that does it.

Sunnyd, I agree with you. Knives are first and foremost cutting tools, made to cut - through relatively soft materials, not through rock and granite. That's where I agree. Knives being cutting tools, wouldn't you say cutting performance was their most important quality? It would sure make sense...

And that gets us where we ultimately seem to disagree. If all knives are designed only for cutting, then what the heck is the point with thick, heavy knives like the CRK Project? These thick knives have relatively very poor cutting performance compared to thinner and lighter knives (that are often much cheaper and many of which manage to hold a better edge, too). Shouldn't those who think knives are only for cutting be cursing thick blades like the Project I all the way to hell itself? After all, they do the "only" task of a knife, cutting, very poorly compared to many other knives.

Of course, it's blatantly obvious that not all knives are designed only for cutting. Ask Chris Reeve whether his knives are all only for cutting, or if some can used "harshly" in the field for things like chopping or batoning. He will say yes. And why shouldn't he? These thick, heavy knives weren't designed only for simple cutting tasks. They would not need their size if they were. In fact, if they were, their size would be a great hindrance to performance.

Me, I belong to the school of people who realize some knives are designed to cut human flesh in a surgery and some are designed to "do-it-all" from chop and pound to actually doing some cutting to top that off. For this reason, durability has value. And for that reason, even primitive tests of durability have value.

 

[*snowflake*]

I spared the reader most of your subjective smear campaign. But to state the least, contempt prior to investigation is a weakness. Theonew put up a poll and numbers speak for themselves. Theonew closed down the thread when it became counter-productive. That caused more stress than a select few could bear. In essence, by closing that thread he brought out some dwarfs with parody polls. Dwarfs suffer from the Neopleon Complex and like to beat dead horse subject matter. Your demand is not worth the zeroes and ones it comprises. The person in question owes the public nothing. Freedom of expression is a right in his land of plenty. Your raid is just a sympton of the Lord of the Flies Syndrome and just another viruii trying to start a little plague.

thats quite a mouth full of psychobabble mr culpepper and it assumes much about your opinon. I fear you view yourself a legend in your own mind. good luck in your quest to make sense in your future posts.

 

[kgd]

Knowing an individuals actual name and address is irrelevant. Noss developed his own website and posts his material there. He engages in public discourse on these forums. He doesn't always choose to defend his work on a reply by reply basis but usually makes an attempt to reply to a thread a few times when a new test goes up. Not everybody is so addicted to BF that they reply to every thread that mentions their handle - I'm certainly not.

As a member of the forums, Sharpphil can always pm Noss and ask him. By starting this thread he is just capitalizing on the attention garnered from the last Poll.

Noss has been at this stuff for quite a while. I do find it interesting that his notoriety only came about recently owing to contraversies regarding tests on a certain manufacturer. He used the hockey mask for his very first set of tests and even claimed then that it was his 'gimick'. So he has a sense of humor, same as the flaming/spinning swords rating system and heavy metal background. I wish more people had a sense of humor.

Noss would have done better for himself to keep to his usual strategy of keeping his discourse at a minimum after the CRK tests but I think he was reacting to a sudden chorus of folks calling him out, not unlike this thread. To suggest that he is tearing down the reputations of manufacturers is really another way of saying that you think his work has a great deal of market power. Probably not!

I wouldn't blame Noss for not replying to this thread. It was malicious from the start.

 

[Kiah]

thats quite a mouth full of psychobabble mr culpepper and it assumes much about your opinon. I fear you view yourself a legend in your own mind. good luck in your quest to make sense in your future posts.

Yay. Let's all start slinging insults at random people. That always clears up an argument on the internet.

 

[AF]

As others have stated, the poll choices are all slanted.
Also, the videos stand on their own. It doesn't matter who is performing the tests. The OP seems to be insinuating that Noss's tests are biased or designed to smear the reputation of a knifemaker or brand. I don't share that view.