Will there be a 2017 forum knife?

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I don't think some of you guys are getting it. If we have a 2017 Blade Forums Knife, Charlie (Waynorth) and Jack (GunstockJack) will be leading the parade - doing 90% or better of the work involved. They've both laid out what they're willing to do and still, most keep popping up with unrealistic wants/needs/desires.

Lord love a duck guys and gals. Just let Charlie and Jack get on with it. We haven't had a dog yet for any past Forum knife and I sure as heck don't think we'll be let down this year.
 
jc57 said:
There is a trick to influencing people. The trick is to put out a logical argument and let people think it over and come to the same conclusion on their own.

No one but me may remember, but I take credit (if only in my own mind) for being the pebble that started the avalanche that resulted in the success of the 2014 BF knife. In this post: http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1160105-2014-Forum-Knife?p=13273943#post13273943 I suggested that we needed a wise leader (I used the term 'czar') who would steer us in the direction of rationality and only allow those choices that made sense.

We got Charlie Campagna, who is who I had in mind in the first place, and he led us to a glorious result in the 2014 stag forum knife. I am not the king. I am the king-maker.

For my next mind control trick - Jack Black, you seem thirsty. Wouldn't a nice cool beverage hit the spot about now?
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:D:D Actually John, read post No.8 in that thread... I think my 'Council of Wise Elders' was ahead of your Tsar :cool:;)

I don't quite understand this 500 knives requirement?? :confused: That surely is for a complete new pattern that requires tooling etc, which is what last year's 35 was. Other SFOs based on an existing pattern are nowhere near this number, otherwise they wouldn't be so scarce or expensive on the secondary or flipper market:D

So, if an already existing GEC pattern is used and has say special scales it is surely reasonable and feasible? Moreover, it does give GEC a chance to showcase their skills-which are considerable and is thus good for their business, no? Or any knife maker's business for that matter, if their QC is up to snuff. I see no unrealistic wants or needs so far, merely discussion.

Thanks, Will
 
I would be up for a GEC or giving Europe a shot. No matter what it is a lot of work for a few select people, and though I can't speak for everyone I know I appreciate the effort:thumbup:
 
I am a fairly new member here and didn't keep up with last year's knife or thread so I don't know about all of the drama that goes with that. I have seen some here state that they would prefer a one off knife designed and voted by the board here. Obviously that's best case scenario. And I don't know the amount of effort put forth by Mr. Waynorth and GunstockJack. If the board is to get a knife and it be limited to a SFO of whatever GEC will be doing this fall or winter that's fine. But until we know what those options are, I don't see the problem with people posting what their dream 2017 BF knife would be? :confused:
 
greentrout said:
...I don't see the problem with people posting what their dream 2017 BF knife would be? :confused:
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Seems like such a simple concept, doesn't it? But it always devolves.

Example:
Poster 1: "I'd like to see a such-and-such this year" (Poster 1 now personally invested in that idea)
Poster 2: "That sounds great, I'd like that too, only with this other option."
Poster 3: (Sensing that this idea is starting to get some traction, and doesn't want that to be the final outcome) "We shouldn't do the such-and-such. That's too close to the so-and-so pattern from 7 years ago. You all got that other option last year. I want my option this year."

... and then it devolves. Factions form, peacekeepers appear, are ignored, peacekeepers become disgusted and step out, allowing the flames to burn, mods step in and change their font colors, things settle down but grudges are nursed. Then some new poster comes along and innocently starts it up again.

It's like a TV detective show. You can watch the plot unfold like clockwork. Every year.
 
It seems that there are not many options left for company to build our forum knife:(
CSC is gone,Queen has not been too good with QC lately, so we pretty much have to work with GEC if possible.
A lot of members,myself included have expressed a desire for a smaller knife; Peanut, Pemberton,etc.
Perhaps if we decide on a pattern that GEC has made before & already has the tooling for it would make it easier.
For what it's worth here's a thought. The 22 Gunstock has only been made once & sold well (Peanut size).
How about one with a clip main & either a sheepsfoot or coping secondary instead of the pen blade?
Cover material to be voted on & maybe we could convince them to use SS. The 150 overrun to make the 500 minimum
would make a great SFO for one of the dealers.
Just my opinion. Whatever happens I hope we at least have a forum knife this year.
 
Modoc ED said:
I don't think some of you guys are getting it. If we have a 2017 Blade Forums Knife, Charlie (Waynorth) and Jack (GunstockJack) will be leading the parade - doing 90% or better of the work involved. They've both laid out what they're willing to do and still, most keep popping up with unrealistic wants/needs/desires.

Lord love a duck guys and gals. Just let Charlie and Jack get on with it. We haven't had a dog yet for any past Forum knife and I sure as heck don't think we'll be let down this year.
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Ed, unfortunately with this type of attitude the forum knife project will never change hands and cease to exist beyond the Charlie and Jack years. Perhaps that is the desired result. Instead I hope both Charlie and Jack are open to bringing new, willing and eager minds into the process so this tradition of a yearly traditional forum knife may continue. Just like Mr. Tony Bose mentoring certain aspiring knife creators who got their start on here modding production knives. Sadly, sometimes the overwhelming group-think that occurs on this forum deters the best candidates from stepping forward.
 
Did you not read this posted by Gunstock Jack:

You guys with all these great knife ideas need to check on the details of production and distribution before getting too far along.

First and foremost; any BladeForums branded knife (especially with the annual BF stamp) must me approved by the official powers here.

As to distribution, I will only deal with one brand, any other brand will need another outlet other than myself. Sorry, this is due to past experience in this regard.

Buck is not going to run a frame/blade combo that isn't in general production, though they might give us a special cover material. No BF blade stamp though, I bet. I don't think Buck will use the BF stamp anyway. Plus we someone to distribute the knife to members.

European manufacturers are also problematic here in the US, but if Jack or someone else wants to get a project going that is their prerogative. I don't have any say in the manufacturing, as all that input comes from the forum.

There is really a lot to the process other than dreaming up patterns. It is unreasonable to think a manufacturer would run a special frame and blade configuration for 350 knives unless they could retail for a very high dollar figure, and if too expensive, someone is left with a large number of expensive knives that they had to pay for but can't sell.

You guys are talking me out of getting involved again.
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Read the last line of the quote. If Jack drops out that'll pretty much cripple the 2017 BF knife.

What it's come down to the last couple of years is Waynorth and GunstockJack. If you want to jump in and maybe take over mailing out all the BF knives that would be great. It would surely free up a lot of time for Jack.

I'll just say right now that I'm lazy and will not help out with any of the logistics. I'll buy a knife if they're made. In other words, I'm a BF knife logistics monitor not a BF knife logistics participant.

Edited to add: My thoughts expressed in my original thread (top of this page) isn't an attitude it's pretty much the way it is.
 
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just want to say thank you Barry and Charlie for all you have already done for us here on the porch. as has been stated before.. i have enough knives....id love a 2017 but if not ill just use my 2016 more. i dont want to see this special project turn into something negative. id rather not Have one this year than see fighting on the porch. ok my .02 cents thanks again to everyone involved in the past my forum knives are some of my most treasured
 
I don't usually get involved in these conversations mainly because I don't think I have anything intelligent to add lol. However after reading this it just seems obvious to me (and that doesn't have to count for much I know ;-) ) that what a few members are trying to say is. The same great guys that have pulled this off for the past few years are most likely willing to do so this year. However it's still a bit early so we need to cool our heels just a bit tell they figure a few things out. Then maybe with a few more things in place this discussion could develop into something more productive. Just an observation guys I don't mean any disrespect to anyone. I too would love to see a 2017 BF knife happen. :D
 
In all honesty, the forum knife seems like a big pain in the butt to everybody involved each year. There's always the impression that it's a huge inconvenience to Barry, Charlie, and everybody else involved in making it happen. There's always bickering. I really have no interest in seeing this process happen again this year. Case and Queen have no interest in doing a knife for us, and GEC has publicly stated that they want to cut down on SFOs. Note that Queen does do club knives, as they did the Badger Knife Club knife last year and it was only 75 pieces. Why won't they do our knife? Would GEC be willing to do it if Charlie wasn't leading the charge?

Basically, the forum knife has been nothing but negatives for the last couple years in my eyes. I'd vote that we either completely change gears like Jack and others have suggested, or we just forego the process altogether.
 
rockgolfer said:
Wasn't that a new frame for last year's knife? What production knives were offered with this frame last year?
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It was indeed a new frame and a limited run of 500 knives built on that frame. GEC intends to use the tooling for the pattern in the future; think of the 2013 BF pattern that was just recently re-released.:cool:

Will Power said:
:D:D Actually John, read post No.8 in that thread... I think my 'Council of Wise Elders' was ahead of your Tsar :cool:;)

I don't quite understand this 500 knives requirement?? :confused: That surely is for a complete new pattern that requires tooling etc, which is what last year's 35 was. Other SFOs based on an existing pattern are nowhere near this number, otherwise they wouldn't be so scarce or expensive on the secondary or flipper market:D

So, if an already existing GEC pattern is used and has say special scales it is surely reasonable and feasible? Moreover, it does give GEC a chance to showcase their skills-which are considerable and is thus good for their business, no? Or any knife maker's business for that matter, if their QC is up to snuff. I see no unrealistic wants or needs so far, merely discussion.

Thanks, Will
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The 500 number is from GEC and is the minimum number required to produce a special order that is normally produced along with a regular production run; whether or not they will run 500 of a pattern just for us remains to be seen, but the 35 frame will undoubtedly be used by GEC in the future. :eek:

Patience fellas; this subject usually doesn't come up with the important players for a while yet, but I feel certain it is being considered already.:):):)
 
Cory Hess said:
In all honesty, the forum knife seems like a big pain in the butt to everybody involved each year. There's always the impression that it's a huge inconvenience to Barry, Charlie, and everybody else involved in making it happen. There's always bickering. I really have no interest in seeing this process happen again this year. Case and Queen have no interest in doing a knife for us, and GEC has publicly stated that they want to cut down on SFOs. Note that Queen does do club knives, as they did the Badger Knife Club knife last year and it was only 75 pieces. Why won't they do our knife? Would GEC be willing to do it if Charlie wasn't leading the charge?

Basically, the forum knife has been nothing but negatives for the last couple years in my eyes. I'd vote that we either completely change gears like Jack and others have suggested, or we just forego the process altogether.
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Wow, that's a little harsh, don't you think? :confused:
 
gunstockjack said:
Wow, that's a little harsh, don't you think? :confused:
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It wasn't meant to be harsh. You've said that you're only willing to work with one manufacturer and that we're "talking you out of it". This doesn't give me the impression that this is something that you're dying to do. Plenty of people have already commented about all the drama that's associated with this process from the perspective of the members. I know that there have been issues in the past that limit the number of possible contributors to just a few people. At the end of the day we're most likely to end up with a run of the mill knife with a different choice of cover. If we don't do a forum knife the exact same knife will probably be available, just as an SFO from a different dealer. Really, the only upside is that there's a unique tang stamp. I don't see a tang stamp as being valuable enough to warrant all the work and headache. I'm sorry if that seems harsh. I honestly don't mean to be disrespectful of anybody's past work or to come across as ungrateful. I'd just prefer a regular tang stamp and no drama.
 
jc57 said:
Seems like such a simple concept, doesn't it? But it always devolves.

Example:
Poster 1: "I'd like to see a such-and-such this year" (Poster 1 now personally invested in that idea)
Poster 2: "That sounds great, I'd like that too, only with this other option."
Poster 3: (Sensing that this idea is starting to get some traction, and doesn't want that to be the final outcome) "We shouldn't do the such-and-such. That's too close to the so-and-so pattern from 7 years ago. You all got that other option last year. I want my option this year."

... and then it devolves. Factions form, peacekeepers appear, are ignored, peacekeepers become disgusted and step out, allowing the flames to burn, mods step in and change their font colors, things settle down but grudges are nursed. Then some new poster comes along and innocently starts it up again.

It's like a TV detective show. You can watch the plot unfold like clockwork. Every year.
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:):thumbup:

And what happens at the end of every TV Detective show ?
They unmask the baddie and send him off to prison,the kidnapped baby/stolen treasure is located and the squad stand at the front of their car/around the desk and laugh and clink glasses as the credits roll.
Please don't let this turn into True Detective season 2 where everyone including the good guys was a bad guy and they all died.

I'm in as always no matter what turns up and I'm not even going to make any suggestions hoping that that may smooth the track for anyone willing to step up and take the helm of design and man the pump of distribution (Captain Waynorth and Stoker Gunstock).

I would love to be able to go and help Barry with the packing and sending but I simply live too far away- I shall content my self by running after the postman growling and slavering until my 2017 BF trad knife arrives sometime in late December or (shudder) early January.
OH SHUT UP meako! It doesn't happen as if by magic y'know. Yes I am aware of the amount of work,time,energy and most of all love that is required for this project every year. Lets keep the magic alive by remaining positive.
The problems with forum knives have been mentioned above.
Politics has been described as the "art of compromise".
Think about that. It means you can't always get exactly what you want and you might have to settle for something equivalent -or not -its still your choice. Simple.
To be honest I find it difficult to understand why anyone would be interested in this knife as any sort of workaday user-
It's a limited edition yearly club members type commemorative type special edition. By all means use it for its designed purpose or cosset it as a precious like what I do-doesn't matter-but why try to manouvre the construction to suit individual foibles when the one you really want with all the features you like the best is probably already available ?
Hows about a production model with some high grade unique to the project scales which set it apart from the herd-making it original and individual. It doesn't have to be a rare archaic pattern that no ones made for 100years. It simply has to be a good quality production traditional pattern pocket knife with a feature that makes it our own-that could be as simple or as complex as we want. I'm leaning towards simplicity.
I hereby bring the magic back.
1973_television_the_magician_dvd.jpg

This recent photo shows how our 2017 knives will be made.:)
Keep positive we have the brains and ability.
 
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Cory Hess said:
It wasn't meant to be harsh. You've said that you're only willing to work with one manufacturer and that we're "talking you out of it". This doesn't give me the impression that this is something that you're dying to do. Plenty of people have already commented about all the drama that's associated with this process from the perspective of the members. I know that there have been issues in the past that limit the number of possible contributors to just a few people. At the end of the day we're most likely to end up with a run of the mill knife with a different choice of cover. If we don't do a forum knife the exact same knife will probably be available, just as an SFO from a different dealer. Really, the only upside is that there's a unique tang stamp. I don't see a tang stamp as being valuable enough to warrant all the work and headache. I'm sorry if that seems harsh. I honestly don't mean to be disrespectful of anybody's past work or to come across as ungrateful. I'd just prefer a regular tang stamp and no drama.
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You are criticizing something that doesn't even exist, and that contributes to making the process more difficult. There was so much harsh criticism of last year's knife that it was really unbelievable; someone complained that they needed a screwdriver to open the punch blade on their knife. I had people wanting to cancel their order before even seeing the knife based on some of these claims. I don't have anything more to do with the design or production than you do, yet folks want to hold me accountable just because I agreed to distribute the knife.

I will only work with US manufacturers due to import issues. GEC is the only US company willing to work with us... for now.

There is substantial financial risk involved in each year's project, as in any other commercial endeavor; just sayin'.

Please, if you have another option you'd like to pursue, do so.
 
gunstockjack said:
You are criticizing something that doesn't even exist, and that contributes to making the process more difficult.
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That's honestly not my intention. However, everything else in your post seems to confirm what I wrote. I'm not criticizing anything you've done or are willing to do. I'm saying that it seems like a pain in the butt. Your post doesn't make it sound any better. I agree, there was very harsh criticism last year. There was also criticism about the 2015 knife. Saying this doesn't mean that I think you or Charlie or GEC or anybody else did anything wrong or didn't do the best possible job. What I'm saying is that despite all of the hard work and financial risk what we ended up with was a knife that was heavily criticized and was really just a version of Charlie's SFO with different covers and a different tang stamp. In my opinion I'd rather not see you go through that or see the forum go through that again for a knife that's just a slightly modified version of something we'd have probably ended up with anyways.

I don't know why you're thinking that I'm being harsh or criticizing when 99% of what I'm saying is exactly what you're saying. The only place where we differ is that you're saying that you're not yet sure if it's worth it and I'm saying that I don't think it is. Hopefully you'll understand better after this post, if not it's probably best to leave it. Best of luck either way it goes. I'll bow out now. Just one more thread where an opinion that doesn't align with the groupthink is put down. Sad to see how common this is nowadays.
 
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