Work Sharp (belt grinder) Knife Sharpener

dano said:
Maybe it is my technique, but the WS seems to grind the tips off my practice knives. Is there a way to prevent this?
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If you want to really dive into the WS, this Mother of All WorkSharp Threads has lots of good info., including about "tip technique":http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/765050-Work-Sharp-Knife-Sharpener

In my long winded Post #399, I gave my take away:

As has been said so often here, the biggest danger is with rounding the tip. I would say it is a big enough problem that, at first anyway, you may want to really take it easy on the tip and if it doesn’t get sharp enough, you can do the last quarter inch or so by hand. As with most here, what is working best for me is to hold the intermittent switch with my left hand and shut off the power as I’m getting to the tip. Also, be sure to not pull the tip past about 1/3 of the width of the belt, to avoid wrapping it around the tip.

As likewise stated by others, it is important to lift the handle as you come into the belly portion of a blade, so that the edge remains approximately perpendicular to the belt.

Finally, a couple of people have mentioned that you also need to move the butt of the handle out to the side a bit right as you get to the tip. This is because the blade narrows at the tip and so you have to move the knife a tad in order to keep the tip hitting the belt at a consistent angle. Obviously, this “fine point” (sorry) is almost impossible to pull off when using the guides. In any event, trying to master a smooth “combo move” of progressively lifting the handle as I’m moving through the belly, followed by the quick kick-the-butt-out move at the very tip, is a bit of a challenge for me, but I’m working on it.

Update (9-10-11): After playing around with the guides a little more, I need to correct what I said here. Both the "closed" kitchen guide and the "open" outdoor guides, even the 20/40 one, do give you enough room to move the butt out a bit as you reach the tip. Sorry I jumped the gun on that.


Hope some of this this helps.

Andrew
 
UnknownVT said:
Thank you Andrew for that information and confirmation.

Did he explain the reason why pushing the blade deep into the guide makes the angles more obtuse?

I believe it's the same as applying more pressure - that flexes the belt more so that it "wraps" itself more around the edge - making it more convex - so the end result is the actual edge angle is more obtuse.
--
Vincent
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Vincent, you are right on the money---that is exactly how he explained it.

Andrew
 
With regard to the tip rounding, just remember that this is not unique to the WS.
If you watch videos of people sharpening on bench stones you'll see the same technique of lifting the handle a bit and pulling it back a tad. Likewise on the Sharpmaker, there are very specific instructions regarding easing up as you get to the tip of the knife. There is no "brainless" sharpening technique, so taking the time to learn and understand the technique on any sharpener is well worth your trouble.
Try running the blade very slowly across the belt when it is not running and watch the edge as you go across. Then watch as you get near the tip and concentrate on keeping the edge and only the edge in contact with the belt. You should naturally see how the handle should move to keep the edge where you want it. Obviously the shape of the blade near the tip makes a big difference. A spear point would require less movement while a skinner might require the handle to be nearly vertical. The nice thing about practicing with it not running is that it kills all of the adrenaline/anxiety that you have going when you are doing it "for real"
 
stinkyspice said:
is there 40 degree outdoor knife guide fit wider blades than the 40 degree kitchen knife guide..

whats the difference?
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ss, the 40 degree outdoor guide does have more room than the 40 degree kitchen guide. I'm still figuring out the pros/cons myself, but I would say the kitchen guide is more controlled, especially as you are pulling the last part of the knife through. With the outdoor guide, the blade tends to slip off the guide more during that portion.

The outdoor guide, though, has more wiggle room and allows better visualization of the knife. I see it as a step towards free handing.

Just my $.02.

Andrew


Andrew
 
Friends, I ordered this sharpener. I think she'll come to me through the day 10. I need any advice on how to sharpen a chisel on it, tanto. I want to sharpen my cqc-7.
 
Ben B said:
With regard to the tip rounding, just remember that this is not unique to the WS.
....
Try running the blade very slowly across the belt when it is not running and watch the edge as you go across. Then watch as you get near the tip and concentrate on keeping the edge and only the edge in contact with the belt.
...
The nice thing about practicing with it not running is that it kills all of the adrenaline/anxiety that you have going when you are doing it "for real"
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This is really good advice -
wish I had thought of it.

Please forgive the repetition:

Re: grinding off the tip:

Basically stop when the blade tip is just fully on the belt helps mitigate the problem -

A light touch is the key - with or without the guide one can see how far the blade is pulled through - slow down when nearing the tip, and stop once the tip is fully on the belt (ie: stop when the blade tip reaches the position shown in diagram below) -
do NOT under any circumstances press or push the blade or exert any pressure into the belt.


GrindTip.jpg


Yes, one should try to keep the edge perpendicular to the belt at all times - this means when reaching the belly and eventually the tip the blade should be lifted at the back so that the "sight picture" (for want of a better term) should look kind of like the drawing above.

A light touch (no exerted pressure) and care toward the tip moving the blade so that it presents the edge perpendicular to the belt - will help remove any danger of grinding off the tip.

from Post #80 (Sept/2) earlier in this thread

Hope that helps.

--
Vincent

http://picasaweb.com/UnknownVincent?showall=true
http://UnknownVincent.Shutterfly.com
http://UnknownVT.Shutterfly.com
http://UnknownVT.multiply.com/photos
 
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Let me try to summarize my findings so far -

The WSKTS (Work Sharp Knife & Tool Sharpener) continues to impress -
and as I have said, made me totally redundant in any manual freehand sharpening
(and I had been doing convex edges for years).

Although there are good reasons for more intermediate grit belts - such as getting mirror polish finish edges - they are not strictly necessary to get good sharp convex edges - using just the supplied middle P220 grit to grind, then finishing off with the 6000 grit to "polish" is more than adequate - a true polished edge using intermediate belts does improve things - but the gains are incremental in magnitude when comparing the gains going from a plain V edge to a convex edge.

The WSKTS puts a convex edge on virtually any blade with ease - because the WSKTS is a fast belt grinder/sander - it is very quick and effective - so it is very important to remember that, and a light, even, consistent touch is needed -
ie: do not exert any pressure into the belt -
keep the blade edge perpendicular to the belt -
and be careful when approaching the tip, and stop once the tip is just fully on the belt - to avoid grinding off the tip (see post #207 above for diagram and details).

Guide or freehand? this is up to personal preference -
if one is only just beginning - it is probably advisable to use the guides, as that offers a way of getting consistency - there are some who will advocate going freehand - and there is much to be said for that - but I still use the guides - mainly as a visual guide so I can easily see whether I am being consistent or not.

Practice is key - some recommend using beater knives - a good hint was to use cheapo table cutlery - but beware those may clog up the belts (belt cleaners are available).

BUT the best tip was from Ben B in his post #204 -
practice with the WSKTS Off/belt stationary - just practice moving the blade on the stationary belt to visualize and get a feel for using the WSKTS
Ben B
Try running the blade very slowly across the belt when it is not running and watch the edge as you go across. Then watch as you get near the tip and concentrate on keeping the edge and only the edge in contact with the belt. You should naturally see how the handle should move to keep the edge where you want it. Obviously the shape of the blade near the tip makes a big difference. A spear point would require less movement while a skinner might require the handle to be nearly vertical. The nice thing about practicing with it not running is that it kills all of the adrenaline/anxiety that you have going when you are doing it "for real"
Click to expand...

Here are some additional hints in using the supplied 50deg outdoors (open) guide

Using light contact with the guide - grinds about 25deg per side (50deg inclusive) - but do not push into the guide - as this is basically exerting more pressure - use light contact both with the guide and the belt.

Holding the blade vertical/straight up-down give about a 20deg per side angle (40 deg inclusive) - it is easier for me to use the guide as a visual aid.

Visually dividing the difference between the vertical blade and the blade in contact with the guide will give a 22.5 deg per side (45 deg inclusive).

A very good hint given by Ben B - elevate the feet at the handle side by just over a CD case gives 15 deg when keeping the blade straight up and down/vertical.... kind of guided freehand - the CD case trick does not work too well using the other feet as it is too unstable - so just elevating one side one has to remove the guide to be able to use the WSKTS the left-handed way to hone/grind the other bevel/side.

Sharpness - most people judge sharpness by things like shaving - however this is only a very shallow cut testing the actual edge only -
ah! I hear you cry but that's what makes a blade sharp!!!

Yes, and No.

the final edge is important - but the whole point of the WSKTS is that it puts a convex profile edge on the blade - shaving and shallow cut tests do not show any benefits of the convex edge - so all those tests saying it will shave or even cut free hanging hair etc - although are impressive - they show absolutely nothing in the convex edge benefit.

Unless one actually shaves with the blade - to me it more important that a blade cuts well (dUH!:rolleyes:) this normally means cutting through things - this is where the convex profile shows all the advantages - please look at the near legendary pdf article on sharpening (manually) - Sharpening a Knife - Information & tips from a veterinarian whose wife & meat cutting put him through college - by Dee Griffin, DVM - I posted the relevant page (4) in post #158 (link)

Or these:
WorkSharpConvex.jpg

EdgeBevel.jpg


A convex edge allows the blade to glide through material better than a plain V edge which basically wedges through material - one can see an edge with secondary transition bevel is an improvement - but the ultimate edge is one with a convex profile.....

so to summarize - this is why I use, and am impressed with the WSKTS.

--
Vincent

http://picasaweb.com/UnknownVincent?showall=true
http://UnknownVincent.Shutterfly.com
http://UnknownVT.Shutterfly.com
http://UnknownVT.multiply.com/photos
 
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When I first saw this my first thought was it looked gimmicky and basically too good to be true (think TV infomercials). But after seeing so many positive reviews of it I'm very intrigued and now I'm torn between completing my DMT diamond hone set or getting the WSKTS.
 
anybody sharpen a chisel grind on this thing.. i know how to sharpen a chisel grind but i was wandering if u can do it with the work sharp.. and how to go about doing this.. if anybody can help that would be great!!
 
ok, i got this thing and i am miffed about all the sticks and stones i have been using. This thing got blades razor hair shaving sharp that i spent hours on using ceramic sticks (1/4 inch thick camp knives). I introduced to the boss at work (commercial kitchen) he went and bought one and fired the expensive knife sharpener guy. Still haven't convexed everything; it will never touch any sebenza unless i find a good beater, did put a nice belt sand mark on blade of strider sng but it is a user. The only downside to this thing really is if you go crazy with it when you first get it you will wear out all the supplied belts and have to buy new ones; and by crazy i mean most of your pocket knives, kitchen knives, all camping knives, axes, mauls, machetes, shovels...yadayada.. GREAT PRODUCT!!!
 
stinkyspice said:
anybody sharpen a chisel grind on this thing.. i know how to sharpen a chisel grind but i was wandering if u can do it with the work sharp.. and how to go about doing this.. if anybody can help that would be great!!
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Convex grind on one side or do you want it to be a proper half V grind?
 
Hi brothers! Here is my story. Today I received this sharpener, I was hoping that it will allow me not to use more edge-pro and sharpmaker. I watched the video several times on DVD and read the instructions. And started sharpening my knife, after a while I felt the smell of burning plastics. After removing the "kitshen knife guide" it became clear what had happened. He and housing sharpeners were damaged tape. In the picture it shows. What am I doing wrong? Any advice.

3-5.jpg

2-6.jpg

1-7.jpg
 
It looks to me that your belt was not centered. This would allow the belt to rub the guide and abrade the plastic. I always turn the unit on prior to placing the guide< when used, to see that the belt is running in a centered position. Hope this helps. BTW I have found that the majority of the time I don't use the guides. Regards, Bradley
 
BDegr said:
It looks to me that your belt was not centered. This would allow the belt to rub the guide and abrade the plastic. I always turn the unit on prior to placing the guide< when used, to see that the belt is running in a centered position. Hope this helps. BTW I have found that the majority of the time I don't use the guides. Regards, Bradley
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Thanks for the advice brother. But the few times I checked the belt, it was exactly in the center. I'm 100 percent. I also checked the adjustment of the tape was straight.
 
khtima said:
But the few times I checked the belt, it was exactly in the center. I'm 100 percent. I also checked the adjustment of the tape was straight.
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Looking at your pictures it would seem the guide housing is damaged on both sides -
there may be these possibilities:

1) the guide housing is not stable and moves during grinding - thus coming into contact with the belt.
2) the belt is for some reason not stable and coming into contact with the housing.
(both these above can be easily tested just running the sharpener with the guide in place, but without any load/grinding - and seeing if the belt makes contact with the housing)
3) a lot of pressure is being exerted by the blade on the belt, displacing the belt enough to come into contact with the housing.

If none of these seem to be the (obvious) problem - then I would suggest getting in contact with Work Sharp directly and show them your photos of the damage.

Hope some of this helps,

--
Vincent

http://picasaweb.com/UnknownVincent?showall=true
http://UnknownVincent.Shutterfly.com
http://UnknownVT.Shutterfly.com
http://UnknownVT.multiply.com/photos
 
Have been following this thread for quite some time and just pulled the trigger on the work sharp. Bought an extra set of belts as well. Northern Tool seemed to have the best price on it that I found. Am going to really read up close over the next few days and get ready for its arrival.

I have the perfect 2 knives to practice on. Finally had to tell the girlfriend to quit buying me knives as presents. Rough Rider and no name damascus. I have finally found a use for them. :)

Clunkers.jpg
 
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