Work Sharp Ken Onion edition is FREAKIN' AWESOME! Long Post

Medic, thanks for the feedback. I'll have to practice some more using your tips before I give up. I won't be able to try again until this weekend or next week, but I'll report my results as soon as I can.
 
I will buy a KO edition, just because I like my original so much and I see the improvements in this model. I have been spending more and more time with the original work sharp of late and the edges are getting better and better with practice ..... !!!!!!!!!!
 
Medic, ya probably didn't start this thread to be the official Work Sharp instructor but I'm calling it your fault for pointing out that results better than my "almost good enough" are possible. What speed are you running? I'm at the 7th click which is less than half speed (mine has to go to the third click to increase speed at all). I'm wondering because with the medium X22 belt I can raise a burr with each single alternating pass. Blade temp never rises above room temp. It's almost microscopic and is less with harder blades but it's still there. I slowed the speed way down and it's still there but might be smaller.
 
Hi all, Work Sharp here.

Thanks for the good review on our new sharpener Medic and also for the technical support, good work and advice all around.

Just to answer an earlier question posed after Ken chimed in...Ken was very involved in the development of this sharpener and remains involved to this day. He came to visit our facility here in Ashland Oregon last week to spend time on our production line and see the tools being built. We met his high standards! This is not a simple licensing agreement where we bought his name. Not even close. Myself and our design engineer spent countless hours in Ken's shop working and grinding on this is product. We worked together to define the expanded features, the engineering to best deliver them and then let Ken work his magic on the industrial design. We are all pleased and proud of our work and happy to hear your kind words about it. And isn't the difference clear? Place a WSKTS next to a WSKTS-KO. That is clearly the design work of Ken Onion!

I offer some caution when using belts from other sources. The abrasive grit is one part of the equation, but equally as important is the belt backing material and its rigidity.
Belts with different backing weights all flex and behave differently when convex grinding unsupported, so be mindful of that when using them. I'm not trying to 'sell you' our belts, only attempting to share what we have learned in our extensive testing. We chose the X65/X22/X4 Norax set because they work well together based on their grit progression but also their backing types. It also delivers the fastest way to a great edge that meets most people needs, but clearly you guys want more and we're listening! So we are working on offering a much wider selection of belts to better meet your needs guys so stay tuned... In the meantime, we just added the individual grit belts on our website.

And stay tuned for the new Blade Grinder Attachment we are soon to release! This will solve the challenge for left handers and allows you to sharpen with the belt always moving away from the edge. And yes, Ken was intimately involved in developing this one too, so you know it will be awesome.

-KC
 
Work Sharp said:
Hi all, Work Sharp here.
And stay tuned for the new Blade Grinder Attachment we are soon to release! This will solve the challenge for left handers and allows you to sharpen with the belt always moving away from the edge. And yes, Ken was intimately involved in developing this one too, so you know it will be awesome.

-KC
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Thanks for checking in! I'm a lefty and I've been making do using my right hand and, at times, free-handing on the "away" side of the belt. I'd love to know more about the Blade Grinder Attachment. Can you give us any more info?

- Tim
 
Work Sharp,
Could you chime in with advice to answer my questions in the post above your last and my previous posts. In short, I love it. I can get a blade to "just barely shaving" in 1/10 the time it takes with any of my other sharpeners. But after reading posts by Medic and elsewhere, it seems I don't have the touch to use the Work Sharp to its full capabilities, i.e, getting my blades as sharp as a razor blade. I've used it exactly like the instructions say as well as experimenting with every angle, speed, how I squint at it, etc. In other words, what am I doing wrong? Some of my hunting buddies who I've fixed up abused edges for in the past are already impressed with the results I can get with your product but I want to get it perfect.
 
Work Sharp said:
Belts with different backing weights all flex and behave differently when convex grinding unsupported, so be mindful of that when using them. I'm not trying to 'sell you' our belts, only attempting to share what we have learned in our extensive testing. We chose the X65/X22/X4 Norax set because they work well together based on their grit progression but also their backing types.
Click to expand...

Great info, and something I hadn't thought about! I like that you didn't tell us not to use other belts, but rather simply cautioned that we could get inconsistent results, and explained why. Can you say how much deflection we should get with the WS belts at a given pressure? Also, since the sharpener is designed to be used with minimal pressure on the belt, is the potential difference in belt backings going to make a significant difference?


Work Sharp said:
It also delivers the fastest way to a great edge that meets most people needs, but clearly you guys want more and we're listening! So we are working on offering a much wider selection of belts to better meet your needs guys so stay tuned...
Click to expand...

That right there shows me you guys are truly a customer focused company. You are actively listening to our suggestions and looking for ways to improve on an already great product. You could have taken the stance of just offering enough to appeal to the average customer who wants a quick way to make a dull knife sharp enough for most tasks. Instead, you are showing you're listening to the relative few knife nuts who just aren't satisfie with shaving sharp, but rather want an edge that makes arm hairs jump off their arm in fear at the mere sight of an approaching edge... ;-)

Since I/we have your ear, it would be awesome if you would, at a minimum, offer some belts that bridge the gap between X22 and X4. Many folks who are obsessed with their edge strive for a mirror polish. To achieve that, you have to completely remove all scratches left by the previous grit. Jumping from 22 micron to 4 micron puts too much work on the 4 micron when you're trying to make it remove the 22 micron scratches. Even one belt in the 11-14 micron range would be beneficial IMHO.

Now, if you REALLY wanna please the edge-obsessed few, it would be cool to close all grit gaps to no wider than 200-250 grit, and also offer a leather or nano-cloth strop for use with ultra fine Carbon Boron Nitride or diamond sprays. :-) Is there any possibility you guys are looking to offer the 6000 grit purple tape in 3/4" width, or better yet, in 1" width for the blade grinder?

And stay tuned for the new Blade Grinder Attachment we are soon to release! This will solve the challenge for left handers and allows you to sharpen with the belt always moving away from the edge. And yes, Ken was intimately involved in developing this one too, so you know it will be awesome.

-KC
Click to expand...

More awesome news! I can't wait to order one.
 
bedrock said:
Medic, ya probably didn't start this thread to be the official Work Sharp instructor but I'm calling it your fault for pointing out that results better than my "almost good enough" are possible. What speed are you running? I'm at the 7th click which is less than half speed (mine has to go to the third click to increase speed at all). I'm wondering because with the medium X22 belt I can raise a burr with each single alternating pass. Blade temp never rises above room temp. It's almost microscopic and is less with harder blades but it's still there. I slowed the speed way down and it's still there but might be smaller.
Click to expand...

Honestly I haven't paid that much attention to the exact speed setting, but tend to start at or near the lowest. I was concerned about edge heat, and figured the slower the better. Of course, at those speeds, it takes more passes, but I'm less likely to accidentally recurve my edge from leaving the hilt in one spot longer than the rest of the edge. As I progress through the belts to finer grits, I increase the speed of the belt, but haven't really used the fastest setting.

When you say you can raise a burr with each alternating pass on the X22, are you referring to immediately after using the X65 belt or after you have raised the initial burr with the X22? A few more key factors I think are important are the pressure you're putting on the belt, what steel is the blade you're sharpening made from, and whether the burr you are feeling is actually the burr left from the X65 belt that may not have been removed completely before moving to the X22? If you're feeling a burr immediately after you begin using the X22, I'm inclined to think you're most likely not completely removing the wire edge/burr left by the X65 belt before moving to the X22. Some blade steels are harder to remove the burr when sharpening. The burr just gets pushed back and forth. If this is the case, or if there is any chance it is, I would recommend a couple light slices across a block of balsa wood, cork or hard felt to remove any residual burr prior to moving to the next belt. Ideally you should stay on a given belt long enough for it to completely remove the scratch pattern from the prior grit belt before moving to the next one. How long that actually takes is not something I know, so without examining the edge under a scope or lighted loupe, it becomes really just a matter of feel or experience. Hope this helps.
 
Thanks for your kind words. Listen to your customers. Seems simple doesn't it?

I will let our engineer chime in next with more about the belts, he is our resident expert. More on that soon from 'Work Sharp Engineer'...

In the meantime visit our website to learn more about the Blade Grinding Attachment...and yes, it will accommodate a 1"x18" leather belt!

http://www.worksharptools.com/wskts-ko-bga.html
 
Thanks for your good advice, Medic. I got it all sorted out and now my left hand and forearm are hairless. When I got done it hardly needed stropping. I guess I was applying too much pressure. If I've got a convex edge you'd need an electron microscope to tell. I can't see any deflection in the belts at all.
 
One way to see the edge being convex is to look at light reflection on the bevel. A flat v edge will reflect light top to bottom, yet a convex edge will reflect light only on part of the edge. I don't know if that makes sense, as it's really something you have to actually see. If you look up convex edges or sharpening of convex edges on YouTube, you'll most likely find the person moving the edge back and forth to show the ever so slightly curved edge.

Glad to hear it seems you have the technique down now. You were likely putting too much pressure as you suspect, which rounded the belt, and your edge, too much.
 
Thats what I mean. By looking at the edge through my 8" lighted magnifier, I can't see any distorted reflection. Anyway, convex edge or not, the machine is a winner.
 
bedrock said:
Thats what I mean. By looking at the edge through my 8" lighted magnifier, I can't see any distorted reflection. Anyway, convex edge or not, the machine is a winner.
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Then there is also the other possibility that your original bevel was narrower than the angle you're using on the WS, and you're only sharpening the actual edge, like putting a convex micro bevel rather than actually reprofiling your entire edge bevel. This would also explain why you got a burr so quickly. If your original v grind edge bevel was 15 degrees 30 inclusive, and the worksharp was set at 20 degrees 40 inclusive, or any angle combo similar, then you would only be hitting the very edge. It would almost instantly raise a burr, and the knife could seem not as sharp because you have effectively made the edge angle more obtuse. This is the reason it is recommended to use a sharpie marker to color your entire edge. This is an easy way to see exactly where your belt is hitting.
 
As Medic mentioned I would also like to see a larger assortment of belts. Just like sharpening stones those in between grits get the job done quicker and with less work. When using grinding belts from any maker, when the belt starts to loose the abrasive its time to replace the belt. Don't try to get a few more sharpenings out of it. Without the abrasive you will build up much more heat trying to remove the scratches from the previous belt and will take quite a bit longer if at all. I use X-weight belts on my 1"x42" belt grinder due to the stiffer backing. I have tried lower priced belts and never had good results. Grit size, broken belts and shorter life along with too much flex.
My KO version has performed quite well with the belts supplied. They really have put out a great product.
 
Thank you all for your interest and input. Your continued feedback really does help us design and produce better products. Special thanks to all of you who helped by testing prototypes and pre-production models. And of course thanks to Ken Onion for sharing his wisdom and incredible skill. Thanks, DanD.

I’ll try to keep up with this thread and answer any questions that I can.
 
Bedrock; it looks like Medic talked you through to get better results. If you need more help please feel free to give me a call. (Just call our 800 number and we’ll take care of you.)

RiverYeti; I don’t have the blade grinder ETA yet but I know it’s very soon. We built the first small batch this week and everything looks good. We just want to double/triple check everything before we ship. We’ll update you guys as soon as we’re ready.

Medic and others; Thanks for your help talking others through the process. You’ve been right on the money with your suggestions. When you are learning free hand sharpening, I recommend using very little belt deflection (1/16” or less). Deflection affects the edge angle so less deflection tends to induce less error.

1/16” is a general guideline to start. Different belt types may perform better at other deflections. Try and avoid using more deflection on the coarse belt and less on the final belt. This can prevent the final belts from reaching the cutting edge if you’re holding the same angle.
 
TIP: Most people recommend starting with an old torn up beater before you sharpen a good knife. While this may be a cheap knife to experiment on, they are often the most difficult to sharpen. You wouldn’t teach target shooting by starting with a .50cal BMG at 1000yds. Start with a .22 at 50 yards instead. Try using an inexpensive folder or kitchen knife that is in decent shape. You will get the hang of sharpening faster without getting derailed by incorrect bevel angles, broken tip, or chipped edges. Once you’ve mastered sharpening, go put a 17.5 degree single bevel on that 70 year old bayonet you’ve been using to open paint cans.

Again, thank you all for your input and please feel free to give us a call if you have any questions/comments. Thanks, DanD.
 
Hi, Dan.

Great to see you here. Let me ask you about this:

Try and avoid using more deflection on the coarse belt and less on the final belt. This can prevent the final belts from reaching the cutting edge if you’re holding the same angle.
Click to expand...

You are saying to use less deflection on the coarser belts, and then a bit more on the finer belts to ensure hitting the edge?

Thanks and regards,

Andrew
 
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