Would 1/4" thick 10" blade be stronger of forged vs stock removal?

Seems like a charpy v-notch test would do a good job of testing the type of strength/toughness that is purported to be enhanced through hammer-forging. No need to make a bunch of full-on knife blades.
 
james terrio said:
They're also rare on bushcraft and especially "survival" knives, handmade or not, because so many customers are deathly afraid of breaking a tapered tang somehow... what they don't realize is that most of them are so drilled-out to save weight, there's actually less steel in them than a proper hidden tang... but it looks thick from the outside, so that puts their mind at ease. *shrug*
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Neat conversation. I agree with this a lot. Too many people banging on moras without an issue. The ones that do break, IMO, are due to it being a cheap mass produced knife. QC can't catch them all. :D I had a tapered tang on a kuk once. It made the knife nice and lively. I had no concerns about the strength. If I buy another it will be a hidden tang version. I hear they're even better.
 
Shotgun said:
Neat conversation. I agree with this a lot. Too many people banging on moras without an issue. The ones that do break, IMO, are due to it being a cheap mass produced knife. QC can't catch them all. :D I had a tapered tang on a kuk once. It made the knife nice and lively. I had no concerns about the strength. If I buy another it will be a hidden tang version. I hear they're even better.
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When I was at 10th Mountain I carried a very light (14-15 ounce) parang I'd made out of 5160 as a ruck knife1it as a traditional build with a partial tang about 2-1/2" long on a 12" blade. Never broke it-and 11B's can break anything.
It's all about the quality of the execution-whether forged,stock removal, partial, stick or full tang.
 
JParanee said:
Nothing is new in blade craft except the steels used.
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There is far more wisdom and depth in that "simple" statement, than first meets the eye. :thumbup:

J W Bensinger said:
It's all about the quality of the execution-whether forged,stock removal, partial, stick or full tang.
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I agree with you completely, Jim... there are many ways to make a truly outstanding knife.

Calm down. Stop "picking teams"... we're ALL on the side of promoting the craft, hobby, and industry of enjoying excellent cutting implements.

Think it through, people. This is not rocket surgery, the science involved is actually pretty straightforward. Don't rely on hearsay or old wive's tales, and for goodness sakes don't EVER be hoodwinked by any rapscallion or carpet-bagger who loudly proclaims "my way is the only way"... to borrow a phrase, that's guaranteed to be a fat stinking load of fly-blown horse-apples.
 
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J W Bensinger said:
When I was at 10th Mountain I carried a very light (14-15 ounce) parang I'd made out of 5160 as a ruck knife1it as a traditional build with a partial tang about 2-1/2" long on a 12" blade. Never broke it-and 11B's can break anything.
It's all about the quality of the execution-whether forged,stock removal, partial, stick or full tang.
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^^^ This right here.
I have also distal tapered all of the blades and about 70-80% of the tangs except on small Paring/steak on my stock removal knives wether stainless or carbon Damascus steels.

Its been a few years but when Paul Bos was at the El Cajon Ca Buck Knives facility, I had him differential heat treat a few of my Bush Wacker models. These were 3 1/2" 3" from the tip Recurve Bowie design of mine with a 12" blade and a 7" handle by 3/8" thick. They were made out of ATS-34. I haven't made one in about 15 years.
They were so much "Stock Removal" LOL. They were distal tapered at the blade & tang as well. I really got into making culinary knives about then.
 
This knife exhibits radical distal taper







We are talking .35 at the guard dropping down to like .27 at the start of the clip

You guys ain't grinding that in :)
 
Nick makes a fine knife. That sure is a beauty!:thumb up:

But why do you think that distal tapering of the blade can't be ground in like that?

Stop by and I'll show you how I distal taper my knives at about the same differences.
 
JParanee said:
You guys ain't grinding that in :)
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Oh really? Are you absolutely sure about that?

Are you even sure a mastersmith didn't use a *gasp* belt grinder to clean up/bring that blade to its final shape (I'll bet you lunch he or she did - and I'm not basing that on blind speculation, I'm basing it on several years and many hours of conversations with some of the best bladesmiths on the planet today).

Speak for yourself, not for me. You might be pleasantly surprised what a humble sparkmaker can do.

Just because you/your favorite makers chooses not to do it, or does it a different way, don't mean it can't be done. It ain't nothin' but a chunk of steel, and we all choose our own ways of getting to the finest result we can. There's no "magic" involved. There are many ways to skin this cat.

Now CALM DOWN everybody! For the dozenth time, I have absolutely nothing "against" my friends and competitors who forge their blades; in fact, I have the utmost respect for their skills.
 
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JParanee said:
This knife exhibits radical distal taper




We are talking .35 at the guard dropping down to like .27 at the start of the clip

You guys ain't grinding that in :)
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Your kidding right?

Beautiful knife though.
 
Joey, even the 5" kwaikens I make start around .260" at the flat, and taper to .040" just behind the tip.

None of them are forged. Or, at least, very few.

If they're made of a steel that requires a differential temper in order to achieve useable strength at the spine in relation to the edge, then they're differentially tempered. There ARE modern too steels, however, that render this unnecessary, such as JT's favorite CPM-3v. At its target hardness for edge retention, and with proper heat treatment, it will exhibit edge holding characteristics (for certain materials) far superior to 1084, while also being stronger than same - even when 1084 has had a spring tempered spine.

Like James says, this ain't rocket surgery.

Each steel has characteristics that make it desirable for certain functions, or preferences by certain people because of their experience or tastes. The talent of the maker combined with a proper understanding of geometry, materials properties, and heat treatment make a knife. NOT whether or not it was struck with a hammer.

...which I still like to do, once in a while, btw.:D
 
I'm sure you guys can grind in any amount that you want but my point is and many of you have mentioned the same it is easier to forge in that kind of distal taper than it is to grind

So yes I was kidding when I said You guys ain't grinding in that kind of taper

Yes nick grinded on these knives

But I'd say he forged a lot of it in



Like I said I see no differences in the strength of forged vs stock removal and that the only differences I see is that normally stock removal knives do not exibit this kind of distal taper

James I am not surprised at what anyone can do especially when it comes to jumping to conclusions when I'm just joining into the conversation and mentioning what I like about forged blades

This is no favorite maker contest

You guys need to lighten up
 
Doug C said:
Some knifemakers forge very close to shape. ;)

DC
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Yup.

Matt Lamey put it perfectly. It makes financial sense for him to forge, as he can keep a few bars of 1-1/8" rounds in stock and make ANYTHING he wants out of it, from a simple paring knife to a sword. No need to order a 3" wide piece of 3/8" thick steel to make something with those dimensions a he can do it with the round bar.

The Wheeler knife that Joey posted was done just the same. Heck, Nicky forged the guard stock from stainless rounds - just easier than having to have a ton of different pieces around, or needing to order the right size because you don't have it.

Relevant to the original post, though, it doesn't do ANYTHING to improve the performance of the steel.

Despite this topic being beaten into the ground ad nauseum over the ages, this thread has been pretty impressive, as it hasn't been soiled by flat-earthers or religious zealots. A rather nice change, I have to admit, and the only reason I bothered adding my thoughts.

:)
 
JParanee said:
So yes I was kidding when I said You guys ain't grinding in that kind of taper


Like I said I see no differences in the strength of forged vs stock removal and that the only differences I see is that normally stock removal knives do not exibit this kind of distal taper

James I am not surprised at what anyone can do especially when it comes to jumping to conclusions when I'm just joining into the conversation and mentioning what I like about forged blades

This is no favorite maker contest
:D

I might have a ground-taper , differentially tempered bit o' candy for you, soon, anyway. ;)



You guys need to lighten up
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Looks like we cross-posted, bro.

I know you know these things, Joey - but there's guys in this thread that may not know you know, you know?:D

I might have a piece of ground distal tapered, differentially tempered bit o' candy for you soon, anyway! ;)
 
Matthew Gregory said:
Looks like we cross-posted, bro.

I know you know these things, Joey - but there's guys in this thread that may not know you know, you know?:D

I might have a piece of ground distal tapered, differentially tempered bit o' candy for you soon, anyway! ;)
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Matt

You are the best and as much a gentleman as an excellent maker :)

I was standing in Phill Hartsfields shop 30 years ago watching him grind in Distal taper and differentially heat treat stock removal blades so yes I know it's possible :)

As I said ...... It's not the norm but of course it can be done

Thanks Matt
 
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In this day that you can buy a CNC milling machine for less than $10k, there is no shape or design that a milling machine can't do. Of course, now you have taken the maker out of knife making. I am sure many of the intricate stock removal designs in folders are done this way.
 
Cobalt said:
In this day that you can buy a CNC milling machine for less than $10k, there is no shape or design that a milling machine can't do. Of course, now you have taken the maker out of knife making. I am sure many of the intricate stock removal designs in folders are done this way.
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I might have $10k of equipment in my entire shop...including the power hammer and my Bader.
And I don't have to buy 6-1/2" wide pieces of steel for tomahawks :)
 
Agreed. Just making the point that todays machinery can make anything easy
 
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