Wretched Excess

Its value is whatever people are willing to pay. Example from my other collector's passion- coins:

I have, sitting in my safe, a single 1982 dime, graded MS-65. I paid $200 for it. Why? It's one of about 2000 known to exist that lack the mint mark. To an ordinary person who doesn't know coins, it's worth precisely ten cents. To a collector, two thousand times that. I've been offered $500 for it from various dealers, and been called a liar when I claimed to have one, but it's a perfect example of what markets will bear.
 
Knives like these are works of art. If some monkey smears some paint on a canvas and it sells for $10,000, good for the monkey.

If some guy can make a really nice knife and can find people willing to shell out that kind of money for them, good for him.

Would you say "The Mona Lisa is to expensive, I mean it's just a painting, I can get one just like it for like $50" ????
 
WadeF said:
Knives like these are works of art. If some monkey smears some paint on a canvas and it sells for $10,000, good for the monkey.

If some guy can make a really nice knife and can find people willing to shell out that kind of money for them, good for him.

Would you say "The Mona Lisa is to expensive, I mean it's just a painting, I can get one just like it for like $50" ????
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Great post Wade. I may use that some day.

A. G.
 
There are definitely knives that are works of art. In my opinion, that new York Special is not one of them. It is a very utilitarian knife. Good steel and very basic handle material with no embelishments whatsoever. Now here is one of his knives that I consider to be a work of art.

kressler_wtc_chute2.jpg

image taken from Classic Guns and Knives' website.

I think the main determiner of value in these knives is the name that goes on them.
 
Keith Montgomery said:
...I think the main determiner of value in these knives is the name that goes on them.
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Well, Keith, I wouldn't say it's the 'main' determiner (or even a second), but at this level it certainly does play a BIG part. And why not? I think in most cases, the maker has 'paid his/her dues' to achieve that 'status'.

(I remember about a hundred years ago when the designer name "Pierre Cardin" on a garment actually meant something. Now, I've seen it stuck on a $2.00 plastic calculator made in China. :jerkit: )
 
What I mean by the name being the main determiner in the value is this; take a basic Kressler, Johnson, Loveless knife, ATS-34 with Micarta handles. Take the same design with the same materials made by Young, Lovett or Denning. What is the main difference in these knives? It certainly isn't that the knives of the first three are made a whole lot better than those of the last three. The design is the same, and so is the material. The price will be dramatically different, why? It is the name on the knife, and what that name represents to collectors.

I am not saying that these knives are not worth what you will pay for them. Purchase a knife made by Kressler, Johnson or Loveless and it is unlikely that you will ever lose on your investment. If however, you are not a collector, it is my opinion that the knives of these big name makers do not offer good value. There are however, quite a few hunters that carry knives made by these makers that would argue that point, so what do I know?
 
Just so that everyone knows, the statements I have made above are coming from a collector. I have spent what would be considered by many to be an obscene amount of money for a knife. If I had unlimited resources, I would own knives made by Moran, Loveless, Lake, Warenski, Scagel, etc, and to hell with whether they offer good value.
 
Not saying it wasn't correctly priced. My point is that correctly priced is different to collectors than it is to those that consider knives to be tools.
 
Keith Montgomery said:
Just so that everyone knows, the statements I have made above are coming from a collector. I have spent what would be considered by many to be an obscene amount of money for a knife. If I had unlimited resources, I would own knives made by Moran, Loveless, Lake, Warenski, Scagel, etc, and to hell with whether they offer good value.
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I actually had the pleasure of holding an actual Scagel about 2 years ago but it had a refinished handle and the price reflected that, it was going for 3500.00, nontheless it was still a big thrill, I think he made some of the most beautiful knives I have ever seen except for living legend Bill Moran.
 
RWL, is a powdered steel very similar to 154-cm, and ATS-34. the RWL stands for R.W. Loveless. Ive seen the original NY Specials (there were only around 7 made of the org.) go for as much as 24.000. With the current examples bringing as much as 12,000. There are three Kressler NY Specials at Knife Legeds for sell in damascus at about 1695. A much better Buy. Some one sait Kressler is the next Loveless. It could have happned, but his shot at that is gone. There is a lot of controversy surrounding Kressler at the moment. Some of it came out at AKI. If it comes out publicly, the value of Kresslers may very well plunge. A shame, as he is capable of great work. . As far as I'm concerned, SR Johnson, is very much in line for that Title. He however, has made his own mark.. With John Young studying his style, and in a position to carry on Steves work in the future.Geno, the same with George Herron. Wayne Clay is very close in some of the Loveless styles. If Bob's partner,Jim Merritt continues on after Bob's retirement, He surley has a shot. . . I'm making the authorized Loveless Connection Knives here in my shop in Texas. They are exactly correct. Bob Loveless and Jim Merritt have spent countless hours making sure that they are. I've been provided with the patterns, and use the same equipment, technique, and specs as out of the Loveless shop. Even one of the contact wheels is from Bob. We're very serious about this. Bob wants people to be able to use a real Loveless again, not just collect them. thats where I come in. Until I got involved with Bob and Jim, I had no idea that there was so much ripping off and out right counterfiting of their work. Including using their logo, and producing out right fakes. The new Book from over seas about Loveless Knives if full of Counterfits. but are protraid as genuin. I don't care what someone offers, they will not get one from me. You can see 7 models of the new Loveless Connection at photo.epson.com Just use my e-mail address to gain entry. michaellovett@earthlink.net. My web page is far from complete, but can be seen at http://home.earthlink.net/~michaellovett/ Bob wants me to carry on the Loveless Tradition, and I am honored, and have every intention of doing so as long as I'm able. M. Lovett
 
This is not user knife. This is an investment.

Edited to add: I have no doubt, the knife is fully functional, and very good quality, but I would be reluctant to use it for anything at this pricepoint, except maybe babying to death. :D
 
rossab said:
AG Russell has this knife up on their Cutting Edge site: http://www.cuttingedge.com/knives_for_immediate_delivery/klc01234_kressler_new_york_special

The thing doesn't look to be a whit more functional than a myriad of $100 hunting/tactical knives, and it's not from 100 BC Rome or India or whatever -

Perhaps the question has been asked before - but - at just what point does the price of handmade uniqueness edge over into ripoff?

As far as I'm concerned, a knife priced at $1800 had damned better well glow in the dark when Orcs are present, or something like that.

RB
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The funny thing about this post is that I could have sold three of those knives if I had had them. I under priced the knife a bit.

A. G.
 
Good for him (and you) if you can sell it. I can make the same knife out of the same steel, with the same handle material, and at least as good heat treat, for $150. But my name ain't D.F. Kressler, so it'll pull about $150. Some things are just overrated. IMO, makers who actually give good value for the money are underrepresented and undervalued, but that's good in a way, because while most of us will never be rich and famous, I'm just as proud that my knives go to work each day, and that the average person who appreciates a good knife can afford to buy them.

<<The funny thing about this post is that I could have sold three of those knives if I had had them. I under priced the knife a bit.

A. G.>>
I've also noticed your prices are generally higher than everyone else's, too. Not trying to be confrontational, but that's the truth.
 
warden41272 said:
Good for him (and you) if you can sell it. I can make the same knife out of the same steel, with the same handle material, and at least as good heat treat, for $150. But my name ain't D.F. Kressler, so it'll pull about $150. Some things are just overrated. IMO, makers who actually give good value for the money are underrepresented and undervalued, but that's good in a way, because while most of us will never be rich and famous, I'm just as proud that my knives go to work each day, and that the average person who appreciates a good knife can afford to buy them.
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The truth is that the market sets the prices, for you, for Kressler, for Moran, for Loveless, for Fowler, etc. If you put your price too high your product does not sell, put it too low and you cannot keep up with orders. The maker who will be getting big bucks 10 years from now is working like hell to make better and better knives and thinking about how to market them.

I worked for many years taking great satisfaction from maintaining great relationships with my customers, dealing honestly and fairly with everyone with very little money to show for it, the business built and built and now every thing seems to fall into place for Goldie and I. Of course Goldie works 60 hour weeks and I just try to keep up. A. G.
 
Copper Crayon said:
Two words:

TOTAL RIPOFF
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A.G. Russell is one of the men that made the modern knife world what it is today, and he didn't do it by ripping people off. The support he has given to makers and the knowledge he has shared with customers has allowed a whole generation of bladesmiths to flourish. If you don’t understand supply and demand or the collector market fine, but you shouldn't start insulting people on the subject if you don’t.
 
A.G. Russell's catalouge really got me going like gangbusters into knife collecting (should I thank him or curse him?;) ) To me he will always be a man of his word. His pricing is his business. It's a real simple concept. Better stuff costs more. Some one bought the knife I see. Mr. Russell is a legend the knifemaking industry and I think we owe people like him a lot.:cool:
 
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