Your opinion on batoning?

Urban redneck said:
Well, what is the point of buying a large heavy blade for splitting wood, when there's better tools available? I understand what your saying, just for my personal purposes, I don't understand using a knife to split wood. It's kind of like using an axe blade to shave..... CAN you to it in a pinch, I'm sure you can, but is it the best choice for the job, uhhhh NO! Just my respectful opinion......
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The answer lies in the threads that talk about hiking into the woods and not wanting to hump 50 lbs of tools to be able to "survive" on your camping trip.

One knife to aid in making small logs, baton for kindling, make a feather stick and shavings for firestarter, cut up the meat for cooking and eating, etc. is a helluva lot easier and lighter than packing a splitting maul, an axe, a hatchet, a knife.

Do you do it for a campfire in your backyard? Only for a knife review or if you've got a lot of free time to burn...
 
Cobalt said:
I don't disagree with you on the axe being better suited there for splitting. But that knife can do a ton of things the axe cannot do. The right tool for the right job is just fantastic when you are at home or in your shop. It is a whole different story when you have to pack it all. But that is just my opinion. A large knife can do a lot more tasks than an axe. But an axe will out chop or split any knife(axe, not hatchet). So yes, ideally the axe is better. Nothing wrong with carrying a small forest axe and a mora. You can cover all your needs there. You can also get a large fixed blade and a mora or small fixed blade as well. My point was that a large heavy duty blade that fails at batoning is worthless as it should be able to handle that job with no problem.
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I can see what your saying. I have to be honest, I own two Esee's and I DO like the idea that they can be batoned with, even though I will probably never do so :p I did learn from the previous post how kickass Esee's warranty is, which I had no idea about.
 
ESEE's are awesome and great bang for the buck. Of course I have split a ton of wood with my Hultafors felling axe.
 
FortyTwoBlades said:
You're not lazy--you're efficient! :D
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Thats what I like to think :D. It makes me feel better to know I'm "practicing important survival skills" by learning to conserve energy by the camp fire :p.

Also, because it comes up every time this topic does, there is a huge difference in splitting rounds for the winter cabin, and in splitting kindling for a campfire/emberlit stove, etc. I absolutely agree that rounds should be split with a machine/maul/axe. Kindling is less clear what is "best".
 
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And remember, this is a knife forum for knife nuts. Some of us will use any excuse to use a knife because we love them. Batoning is great if you love big knives!

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Hahaha I've seen enough of these threads to know what direction they can go:D
I myself like both,, love the nostalgia of an axe,, the efficiency in splitting.
I also have a blast blowing through a knotty log with a big chopper,,
Who am I kidding,, I just like any excuse to play with sharp things...
Cheers!
 
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It's funny because growing up when we went camping (Utah, mountains and the southern desert), we probably only brought a small pen knife. Firewood was anything dead on the ground or on the tree,, bigger pieces were broken under your foot or wedges between two trees and snapped like a lever/fulcrum.
I think nowadays I just enjoy owning and using all knives/axes whether I "need" them or not.
Plus it's always good to know they are there for when I do need them.
 
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Different tools and techniques all have different pros and cons. Axes and hatchets are just going to be better at chopping and splitting, no arguing with physics, but they're also generally more awkward to carry and heavier. More recently I've tended to leave axes, hatchets and even large knives at home and just carry a sturdy belt knife and a small folding saw. Where I live I would rarely really even need those to start a fire, but they can certainly make it quicker and more convenient. Dead wood is very easy to find here, so my chopping and splitting needs are minimal and if I don't have a lot of use for a heavier, more dedicated tool I'll cheerfully shed it for a light, more versatile option, albeit one that isn't as efficient.
 
I would baton with a knife if I have to. Otherwise, I don't. It is a modest skill to have in your outdoors skills kit. I seldom carry a hatchet or axe except car camping.
 
FortyTwoBlades said:
Batoning is a skill that requires tool literacy to be performed properly. The limits of the tool need to be taken into account when determining appropriate targets for the method. Most knives can be safely batoned, but how large/twisted a piece of wood they can handle appropriately varies according to the strength of the knife in question. I mostly use batoning for splitting finger-thick and matchstick kindling, which is a traditional method. In Europe hidden-tang billhooks are usually used for the task, with some even being made specifically for work on a chopping/splitting block. Those who experience failure in their knives when batoning usually have not been sensible with their knife by choosing an overly difficult split and/or using sloppy technique. If stuck with a relatively delicate knife and splitting tasks are called for, use the knife to carve some gluts (wooden wedges) and gently baton the knife into the top of the target piece just to spread the wood fibers, then insert the edge of the glut and drive it home to complete the split.
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+1

I've batonned plenty with my Esee4, so even a shorter knife will do as long as it's sturdy enough. I really have to wonder what some people are trying to do when they snap their BK9's batonning.
Appropriate job for appropriate tool. That doesn't mean you have to haul a maul to every trip. There's a range that each tool covers; deciding how far you want to stretch that range before packing another tool is up to your own judgement.

There's quite a few debates here... if you could call them debates... but anyways it's a hot topic.
I don't think it should be, tool literacy is important for all tools.
 
bowieknifenick said:
What is the shiny one on the right? Almost looks like a becker bk9. That's the knife I'm buying next :)
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Thanks cobalt! They are beasts, they just want to eat wood all day.

Bowie, the yellow one is a nuclear meltdown fusion battle mistress, or nmfbm for short. It's quite a big knife at about 33 oz.

This isn't a baton picture, but it the wood is some kind of oak, but I did baton those pieces for a bonfire.
This knife can be abused and it is recommended to be abused... i like that.
 
bowieknifenick said:
I'm still a bit new to this forum so I wasn't really sure where to post this or if there's a million other threads out there. I apologize if I'm being redundant.

What's your opinion on batoning? +

I'm a bit new to bushcraft as well, recently taking more of an interest in it, but I think batoning does serve a purpose. To make kindling. Small pencil sized and thumb sized tinder that will take a flame from your primary tinder. I'm not talking about batoning through leg sized logs, but small forearm sized logs to get to the very dry wood that will take and hold a flame when you're first starting a fire. After the fire is going I know you can just chuck any old log onto the fire and you don't have to worry much about splitting it.

I baton at home, but only to make kindling. For anything larger I set up the log on my chopping block and split it with my maul.

I find wielding anything larger than my kabar on a forearm sized piece of wood to be a bit awkward, and dangerous. I like how I can safely set the knife on the wood, precisely where I want it to split, and with 2 or 3 good whacks, the wood will split. Sometimes I do split larger logs with a knife but not for a purpose, I just like to see if my knife can stand up to it, and it can. (Not recommending doing that, but once in a while it's fun to test my knives)

At home, batoning is needed less, because you have the right tools for the job only a few feet away in the garage, but I see the real value of batoning out in the wilderness, where you're likely carrying a pack, and you're looking to keep that pack light. Sure, you could haul in an axe, a saw and a maul, but why do that when you could carry a sturdy knife (think becker bk7 and the like).

Sure a hatchet may split the difference, but I find it hard to split wood with a hatchet. I may be doing something wrong but I can only get the hatchet to bite an inch into the wood, and it won't split. I'm not really sure how one would split wood with a hatchet. If someone could enlighten me that would be appreciated.

Looking forward to hearing your opinions
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Hi BOWIEKNIFENICK!

Welcome to the forum, I am not that long here either.

Batoning.....

I will put it straight and simple, for you and based purely on my own experience. I am no hard-core bushcrafter,,,but for many years regularly walking mountains, hiking and camping in wilderness with my family and our friends.Our trips take often couple of days and I never - ever needed to use technique of batoning......

Simple reason for this is:there are no logs out there anywhere freely lying around to be splitted by knife.Despite being in woods sometimes for days,occasionally even building primitive shelters for night or two,,,,never ever needed to batoning wood with knife and I do have a heck of a large blades able to chop down the telephone poles with ease. However I do what is necessary in woods and that is collecting wood often for fire purposes, or less for shelters-(rarely).Simple task is to collect most of dry and dead wood as much as possible,which I use to break down into pieces by hands,knees or if tougher branch - by hitting back of my blade against it,to crack it first,than finish it as written.When there is shortage of dead and dry branches,I use simply small branches that I cut with angular swift cuts and same way I just cut them piece by piece-supported against ground.I have never seen used batoning technique for entire time by anybody (unless camping nearby cabin or in the cabin directly and some of the guys wish to test his knife on the logs prepared for wintertime)

Batoning I see is very common for dudes testing ability and durability of their knives, but that's about it-unnecessary use of knife.....

If somebody ever need to use batoning,than he/she will be doing so most likely in his/her own backyard or cabin-not out there in the wilderness or camping trip throughout nature and woods... Cutting yes,a lot.

That's my own opinion on today's bushcrafters batoning and batoning, for the sake of batoning,not for the necessity of it....:)
 
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Yeah, batoning wasn't useful for me in the woods during camping, there was plenty of sticks twigs and branches to start fire with.

however, we are KNIFE people, and sometimes (maybe always) it's fun to use your knife, especially for bonfires and whatever.
 
Battoning with a knife is just Plain Fun IMO. Getting wood together for the camp fires while spending a few days without modern conveniences can be just Cool. Who cares what can do it better, what is more efficient, that is not the point. With a good knife one can trust one has to try it for himself, Either you like it or not. Its all good man :D
 
Seriousbladeno1 said:
Love the Battle Mistress.(maybe one time will come:)) One of the greatest Busse designs ever made! Simple and effective knife for sure.
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I couldn't imagine a more solid knife. Once you handle one, all other knives sort of feel puny. It made my kukri feel puny, which is not.
 
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