Your opinion on batoning?

Isn't toilet paper still a minority thing Stabman? Most of the developing world squats and washes.
 
Ditto the post about backpackers and hunters doing just fine with a simple folder.

I think battoning anything larger than an inch or two is a ridiculous way to use a knife. It makes a bunch of us feel great about the knife we bought but in the end, it's not a needed skill. If it's something you like to do, then have at it and enjoy. If it's a bushcraft skill you think you need to know to survive... then I say spend time reading. There are more efficient things you can do to make yourself safe and comfortable in the back-country.
 
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If I was carrying a larger knife in the woods and felt the need to baton some kindling, I'd do it. But generally it is something that is not needed often in my part of the world.
 
I recently kayaked out to a small island I stop at from time to time on the river that runs through the county I live in. It is pretty much just a bare patch of rocks with a bit of mud ringing it. The only wood at all on the island was an old log that had washed up on the bank. It was about 6" in diameter and 10' long. I used my little wire saw to cut a few 8" logs and battoned them up into a pile of kindling. I quartered up a few more to give myself a good pile of manageable sized pieces for fuel. It all took about 15 minutes and I barely worked up a sweat in the process. I was able the have a nice little fire to warm myself and brew a few cups of coffee before I was on my way.

Did I "need" to batton ? No, probably not. I could probably have done without the fire altogether, as I probably would have if that log didn't happen to be there. But it sure was nice to have a hot cup of coffee and warm hands after paddling for a few hours in the December cold, and in all honesty, it was kinda fun to do it with just the few small items I had in my pack instead of worrying about packing an axe or a hatchet on top of all the other gear I already cart along for cold weather paddling.

All that being said, I guess battoning is situation specific. Not something I would likely do at home or even at a proper, planned camp site, but it is a great skill to have and use when you do have the want/need for a fire and don't have a good supply of processed wood or the tools to process them more efficiently.
 
Well, what is the point of buying a large heavy blade for splitting wood, when there's better tools available? I understand what your saying, just for my personal purposes, I don't understand using a knife to split wood. It's kind of like using an axe blade to shave..... CAN you to it in a pinch, I'm sure you can, but is it the best choice for the job, uhhhh NO! Just my respectful opinion......

There is a much larger picture out there then many people can see. We heat with wood. We split mostly oak with a log splitter, then stack and dry for a year or 2. As weather fluctuates, the wood stove is used off and on through the early winter, and some days is not needed. We have a reserve of split wood, but NOT fine kindling. So my children have been taught how to safely use a knife and to baton off pcs of fine kindling when a fire is needed. This is done on the hearth or outside if weather is okay on the splitting block. If inside, it can be done on the hearth on a wood block. For them to use a boys axe or hatchet isn't a safe option in either scenario. The swinging of the tool and high chances of a missed or glancing blow, and then risking injury as a result, is why we use a baton tool such as Becker, Busse, Condor, etc.

This is one situation of several I could describe where in my opinion, batoning is safer to accomplish a more precise result. Yes, I can use the hatchet and axe. I do, and enjoy them. I am teaching the older children how to safely use them. But to produce small kindling, and also medium size pcs, to start a woodstove fire, this is safe, effective, and also cleaner...

Just my thoughts...
 
My opinions-

it's a fad
it's probably fun (have a big knife and want to find something fun to do with it, here you go...)
it promotes destruction of trees
there might be 2 or 3 people on the entire planet that really need to do it each year

I don't own any knives that are big enough to really work well batoning, and there aren't any excess trees anywhere around my house, so I can't try it out.

So you REALLY oppose axes and saws. :D

"around my house" = barrier to understanding.

A fad I was introduced to fifty years ago. A fad that is centuries old.
 
Why not just baton a splitting wedge? For the folks who don't want to swing a hatchet.

Holding a wedge, and staring it is not for the faint of heart, especially when smaller finer pcs are the desired result... The simple act of locking the primary pc into place so it does not "kick out" is significant. For my situation, it would not be feasible for family members, or myself to use that application for making small pcs. A splitting wedge is used to make the primary splits on large stable pcs of wood, usually after a split has been started by a maul, etc..

It is possible and sometimes convenient to use a hatchet or small axe for the wedge. But again, control equals safety. And the torque on the wrist and forearm when trying to hold a hatchet or axe as the wedge for batoning, especially for a small person or younger person, is a large factor in the situation. Also when the axe is fully sunken into the pc you are splitting, then hitting on the handle is not an option. But when a knife is used, and the blade length is adequate for that size pc of wood, then you have blade left on either side to continue to hit on until the pc separates. If a person actually tries this, and applies these practices being discussed, much of the opinions and points would be made clear fairly soon. My 10 year old could explain why he prefers a knife in most situations when he is asked to "make more kindling". He enjoys using a small axe for things also, but this discussion is aimed at the "why baton?" question. Hope that helps...
 
Holding a wedge, and staring it is not for the faint of heart, especially when smaller finer pcs are the desired result... The simple act of locking the primary pc into place so it does not "kick out" is significant. For my situation, it would not be feasible for family members, or myself to use that application for making small pcs. A splitting wedge is used to make the primary splits on large stable pcs of wood, usually after a split has been started by a maul, etc..

It is possible and sometimes convenient to use a hatchet or small axe for the wedge. But again, control equals safety. And the torque on the wrist and forearm when trying to hold a hatchet or axe as the wedge for batoning, especially for a small person or younger person, is a large factor in the situation. Also when the axe is fully sunken into the pc you are splitting, then hitting on the handle is not an option. But when a knife is used, and the blade length is adequate for that size pc of wood, then you have blade left on either side to continue to hit on until the pc separates. If a person actually tries this, and applies these practices being discussed, much of the opinions and points would be made clear fairly soon. My 10 year old could explain why he prefers a knife in most situations when he is asked to "make more kindling". He enjoys using a small axe for things also, but this discussion is aimed at the "why baton?" question. Hope that helps...

I'd expect a person who could full pound a hatchet into wood would also have the muscle to free it. As for grip and setting, pretty much the same.

Seems to me that splitting with a blade breaks down to being more enjoyable because it takes longer.
 
Which one? Not that I doubt u, but I'd be surprised to know that a manufacturer condones they're product being used for something that's so risky for breakage

The medalion on the side of a Buck Stockman shows a ball peen hammer driving a Buck 120 through a rail road spike. It has been their logo for a long time. I'm thinking hammering a knife through a steel spike would be considered batoning.
No other topic brings out the best and worst in Wilderness folk. You can't find a sentence with the words bush craft knife that batoning isn't close behind. It's the first degree of quality control in outdoor cutlery and I'm not sure why. I've seen flame wars erupt in these very forums over
To baton or not to baton. It's really a matter of preference. I've always felt if you could remember your knife couldn't you temper your axe ? But again that initiates more debates than discussion.
 
I'd expect a person who could full pound a hatchet into wood would also have the muscle to free it. As for grip and setting, pretty much the same.

Seems to me that splitting with a blade breaks down to being more enjoyable because it takes longer.

I have no idea where he was talking about the hatchet getting stuck...
He was saying that when using a wedge or ax/hatchet there is a point where you cannot baton it further if the wood length is more than the head size.

that's why things like a shingle froe was made so you have plenty of striking surface
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Also he, and many many people here, has said that batoning with a knife is mainly for small kindling. He and I both mentioned how Batoning is just easier than using an ax/hatchet for the inexperienced.
 
I have no idea where he was talking about the hatchet getting stuck...
He was saying that when using a wedge or ax/hatchet there is a point where you cannot baton it further if the wood length is more than the head size.

that's why things like a shingle froe was made so you have plenty of striking surface

Also he, and many many people here, has said that batoning with a knife is mainly for small kindling. He and I both mentioned how Batoning is just easier than using an ax/hatchet for the inexperienced.

Oh lordy. Yes he's talking about shaving small chunks with a knife via batoning. My take on that is if you grab that same split log to get some kindling from you can baton with a wedge or hatchet also.

A) wood, B) knife, C) baton. Place knife on wood and hit with baton till finished.

A) wood, B) wedge/hatchet, C) baton. Place wedge/hatchet on wood and hit with baton till finished.

Since the knife is a smaller wedge it'll take longer and thus prolong what is an enjoyable task for the splitter.
 
Point taken, there's really not much difference there in terms of time saving, imo.

All 3 will work, it just depends on what you carry with you. Most times it's a knife, then ax/hatchet is next, and last would be wedges. I know you can always take a few minutes to carve one up. To each their own
 
More often than not I gather small dead branches from underbrush and small dead standing underbrush. This negates the need to baton for kindleing. I perfer working with an axe or hatchet, though as has been pointed out concerns of weight often keep me from bringing either. I do have a number of pocket axes that I might take along more out of desire than necessity. My most used comes in at 13 oz in total with sheath.
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That said on one of my more recent trips I cooked everything over the fire, and constructed a pot hook to do so with only my Mora Classic #1 and Victorinox Farmer. Truth be told I would have faired just as well on that trip with only one or the other.

Don't get me wrong I don't have a problem with batoning. For me it is simply a means to an end rather than something I enjoy. It can be a great technique for roughing out carving projects, or starting notches in a pot hook, and of course batoning wood for kindleing if you ever find yourself in a situation where that is needed.
 
There is a much larger picture out there then many people can see. We heat with wood. We split mostly oak with a log splitter, then stack and dry for a year or 2. As weather fluctuates, the wood stove is used off and on through the early winter, and some days is not needed. We have a reserve of split wood, but NOT fine kindling. So my children have been taught how to safely use a knife and to baton off pcs of fine kindling when a fire is needed. This is done on the hearth or outside if weather is okay on the splitting block. If inside, it can be done on the hearth on a wood block. For them to use a boys axe or hatchet isn't a safe option in either scenario. The swinging of the tool and high chances of a missed or glancing blow, and then risking injury as a result, is why we use a baton tool such as Becker, Busse, Condor, etc.

This is one situation of several I could describe where in my opinion, batoning is safer to accomplish a more precise result. Yes, I can use the hatchet and axe. I do, and enjoy them. I am teaching the older children how to safely use them. But to produce small kindling, and also medium size pcs, to start a woodstove fire, this is safe, effective, and also cleaner...

Just my thoughts...

+1 on this.

My parents cabin is the same way. We heat it with the wood burning stove. We used a log splitter to get the rounds into good split wood that fits into the stove nicely. We have a kindling box next to the stove that we stock with scrap from construction work, sticks, paper, or basically anything that is... kindling. We also keep a Condor bushlore in there, that we use right there on the hearth to split the larger kindling down if we need smaller wood, without having to go outside and split more with an axe/etc. This is especially nice when its currently snowing/raining/nighttime, etc.

My other most common reason to prefer batoning to a hatchet is that with much of the camping I do, it is car camping, with family and friends. The family and friends often times have small children with them. I can baton a 2-4in sized piece of wood into kindling without being worried about children running out of a bush into range of the baton. While the few times I've used an axe/hatchet in camp, I've been super cautious... but 2-3 year old kids can wander off, and don't really know what to be careful of yet and can seemingly come out of nowhere. It makes me more comfortable to swing the big blunt baton while crouched 3ft from the fire ring, than I would be using an axe/hatchet in the same conditions. And its usually damp where we go, and most twigs are covered in damp moss, so I usually just get 2-4in branch into kindling, then go from there.

And yes, I still pay attention for small children :).

I don't think "more enjoyable" or "takes longer" are accurate, at least for me. I "enjoy" getting a campfire going, the batoning itself isn't really "fun". Its just something I do if the wood is wet. And while a knife isn't as thick as a hatchet, that doesn't always mean that it doesn't split as well. A thicker wedge does split better, thats true. But you need more force per unit of distance traveled because of that obtuse shape. What I've noticed is that with really fibrous woods, is that they don't split all the way down very easy, so a thinner knife can actually go farther into the wood, cutting those connective fibers more easily than the thicker wedge. There have been times when what you said is true though, as some nice dry wood just seems to want to pop apart, and the thick wedge shape of an axe/hatchet really helps with that.

And really, I've found that Hatchets and large knives are so similar in performance capabilities (they have very similar OAL and weights usually), that it usually comes down to the users skill/preference that makes one better than the other. While I know its possible to make feathersticks with hatchets, I am better at them with large knives (plus, can use it as a drawknife, etc). So for that weight class of object, I've mostly gone with a large knife.
 
Maybe this is just my years at Boy Scout camp 50 years ago, but my own take on batoning is that it's a technique to know how to do — and you plan your trips well enough that you never need to use it. If you're planning a trip and you will be making wood fires with found wood, then you're better off bringing a small, light hatchet with you. Again, the Bridgeport Scout hatchet is my mental model for the thing. (Yes, I know there are lighter models today.)

The hatchet blade should be sharp enough that you can shave wood curls with it, or make a proper fuzz stick. Most people carrying hatchets don't get them sharp enough to do this. The hatchet actually takes the place of the "sharpened prybar" which some bushcraft knives resemble. A sharp hatchet plus a folding pocket knife, and you are much more well equipped than the advertisements for big thick survival knives would have you believe.

Main thing: plan your trips, gain experience, and come prepared for what you'll do.
 
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