ZDP-189 vs S30V

I got one of the new ZDP189 Leeks. It chipped after about two weeks, then after being wet overnight it developed rust pits (not just spots). For me, there is no comparison- I'll take S30V every time. ZDP189 is too brittle and susceptible to corrosion.
 
I'm reserving judgment on ZDP. And I'm learning a lot about heat treatment and not only the steel but also the vendor and heat treatment the steel receives. It sound like just having a steel x vs. steel y might be a tad too simplistic.
 
Patapsco Mike said:
I got one of the new ZDP189 Leeks. It chipped after about two weeks, then after being wet overnight it developed rust pits (not just spots). For me, there is no comparison- I'll take S30V every time. ZDP189 is too brittle and susceptible to corrosion.
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You might want to reconsider generalizing on a steel because of one experience with one manufacturer.

ratdog said:
I think the test of cutting through rope seals the deal for ZDP. 15 cuts with 420C through 1 inch rope=Dull...100 cuts with ZDP=Still sharp.
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That test is meaningless because it isn't well defined, the angles the grit, the stopping points, etc. . It is just 100% promotional hype for ZDP-189.

MPE said:
Sodak, Since you posted your results in a public forum you should post the facts behind the findings in a public forum as well.This may put more creedance to your statement.
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He has explained the details in the past. Such commentary also tends to induce extreme defensive reactions by makers/manufacturers so if you wish to see frank discussions such as Sodak has noted then you need to inform those makers/manufacturers that their attempt at censorship isn't appreciated.

sodak said:
I had one knife in S30V re-hardened to 60.5 HRC and it's been acceptable in terms of edge holding, but the edge has not been very sharp - e.g., slicing newsprint, but unable to push cut it.
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Not able at all - that is surprising.

-Cliff
 
Thanks Cliff, I was not aware he had posted them in the past until I received a very polite email from Sodak.Apparantly, I need to sharpen my mind reading skills along with my Vulcan Mind Control and my mental ability to bend steel.

MPE
 
MPE said:
Thanks Cliff, I was not aware he had posted them in the past ....
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That is a problem with most internet discussions which tend to be repeated, they eventually get more and more condensed through not wanting to keep typing the same information. I have been pestering him to write an article for awhile now which would solve that problem.

-Cliff
 
Cliff Stamp said:
That is a problem with most internet discussions which tend to be repeated, they eventually get more and more condensed through not wanting to keep typing the same information. I have been pestering him to write an article for awhile now which would solve that problem.

-Cliff
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Writing an article would slow him down from sending me all of his beautiful, expensive fixed blades for me to test! Oh wait, he e-mailed me that he has sent them, pester on! Seriously, it would be nice to have an article with all of the details of his issues with S30V, I think it should be a mandatory read for all knife hobbyists and users to get a different view than the standard sales pitch you get when that steel is brought up.
 
gunmike1 said:
... get a different view than the standard sales pitch you get when that steel is brought up.
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Yeah, since we are pointing fingers, you should write an article similar to "Eyes opened to high performance cutlery." or similar as you have advanced in viewpoint dramatically in a short period of time. It would be nice to see a short introduction to where you were, the critical influences, where you are now and how it influences your perspective on cutlery and steel. I have an idea where it can be reviewed/hosted.

-Cliff
 
Cliff Stamp said:
Yeah, since we are pointing fingers, you should write an article similar to "Eyes opened to high performance cutlery." or similar as you have advanced in viewpoint dramatically in a short period of time. It would be nice to see a short introduction to where you were, the critical influences, where you are now and how it influences your perspective on cutlery and steel. I have an idea where it can be reviewed/hosted.

-Cliff
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Maybe I will do that. My wife has surgery in a couple weeks, and when both she and the baby are sleeping I will try to cram it in. I'm no wordsmith, so obviously I will need it reviewed and slammed, uh, I mean critiqued, when it's put up, but I think my journey from know nothing newbie to know a little bit newbie has been very interesting. Being the curious type I really like to read and learn from others on subjects that I am interested in, and I feel I have learned a lot in the last year. When you start to actually experiment with different steels and geometries and see what a real cutting tool is your perspective can change really fast. I didn't even start doing real sharpening until maybe March of last year when I got my Sharpmaker, now I am going off the deep end in the hones and sharpening equipment I want. Not to mention how far my tastes and perspectives on cutlery have changed. A Tactical Liner Lock in 154 CM with a prybar grind was the ultimate to me not long ago (though the one I wanted is REALLY ergonomic in the hand), now I have no use for such a tool. Hell, I defended my CRKT M18 as a bargain (at $13 it was, but not at the $28 I originally paid, with the Byrds out there), now that I sharpen I realize their AUS 8 is very soft, a bear to sharpen, and the Byrd Cara Cara kicks it's butt as a cutlery tool. I never would have pictured myself as the type to carry around a little 2.5" blade with a nail nick, but it turns out it is the best cutter I have ever used. Now I'm even clamoring for a knife like that in 13C26, boy how things have changed. I have crossed over to the dark side.
 
Oh all right, you guys are right. MPE, you were right to tell me to post publicly, it's not fair to criticize without backing things up for all to see. I should have passed this thread by, I feel like I'm beating a dead horse, and that's really not fair to anyone. So it's time for me to put up or shut up. I hope my shoe leather tastes good... :eek: :D

I'll go ahead and try to do as good and objective of a test as I can, comparing 5 - yes 5, knives in S30V. I'll post the results, and try to open a photobucket acct. to post pictures as well. It will be a week or two, as I'm a little busy right now, but when I'm done, I want all the criticism you can think of (I really do mean that) so I can re-test if necessary to everyone's satisfaction, but I'm not going to destruction.

After that, if anyone in this little discussion wants, I'll ship the knives to them, and they can duplicate the tests.

PS - Sorry for the thread drift. I'll test a ZDP 189 Calypso jr along with them for fun.

Fair enough?
 
A BIG thumbs up sodak.Now this is a test I will be interested in.Unlike a certain Strider one that went to hell in a handbasket.5 knives,thats the way to do it.

MPE
 
I'll bet you can predict which ones they'll be, too! ;) All right, but I want feedback, and I'm more interested in negative rather than positive. It's the only way to learn.
 
Good or bad,I'm sure people will let you know.haha Can you give me a hint of what you will be testing?I think I have an idea on 1-2.By the way, I'm so damn curious about 189 I am going to buy a William Henry.Of course,you know this is only another excuse to buy another knife.I fully intended to buy one anyway.hehehe

MPE
 
Yep. I'll do edge retention on cardboard and rope. I'll do wood cutting, including whittling. I'll try my best not to twist while I do it to prevent any lateral damage. If I can get my hands on carpet, I'll do that too. I'm mainly interested in edge retention, of course, I'll have to figure out if I keep the original geometries, or thin them all out the same. The knives will be a Buck 110, Buck Vanguard, Spyderco Manix, Spyderco Native, and small Sebenza. All in S30V. In ZDP 189, Spyderco Caly Jr, and MPE's William Henry. Just kidding, MPE! ;)

I've been eyeing WH for some time now. Still trying to decide between a 12 and 15. Which line are you going to get? They are beautiful knives, and next on my list when I come into some money.
 
sodak said:
I'll go ahead and try to do as good and objective of a test as I can, comparing 5 - yes 5, knives in S30V.
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That would be interesting but you should also consider writing up your past experience, as you have a lot of work done on various topics and includes pictures.

-Cliff
 
sodak said:
The knives will be a Buck 110, Buck Vanguard, Spyderco Manix, Spyderco Native, and small Sebenza. All in S30V. In ZDP 189, Spyderco Caly Jr, and MPE's William Henry.
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Instead of 2 per manufacturer, why not add another manufacturer, like Benchmade?

I have only done direct comparisons between Buck (Mayo) and Benchmade (mini-Ritter) S30V, whittling hard hickory and cutting cardboard, and did not find much difference between them. I have since come into possession of a Paramilitary and a small Sebenza, which I have not directly compared. But in all my use, I have not seen the chipping issues so hotly debated on these forums, and they have performed quite well. The only thing I can report is that after Hickory and cardboard, the original factory edge of the BM showed VERY minor chips - so small I had to look carefully at 20X magnification to see them. They did not have any apparent effect on cutting or on sharpness (shaving).

My sons have Natives in S30V, and I think that particular batch was done a little soft, as they don't hold an edge as well as I would like or expect.
 
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