Zero Tolerance Liner Lock Closures?

[Yonose]

I'm curious, if you were to sell one of these ZTs that are prone to this failure, but as some here consider it not abnormal, would the seller have to disclose this if they were to happen to sell it here on the exchange?

I definitely think a well respected seller would disclose if the knife had failed a spine tap test.

 

[marrenmiller]

In an actual folding knife sd scenario it is likely that slicing rather than stabbing gets most of the heavy lifting done, with the exception of eyeball/ear/temple. Why I still think if a folder is gonna be used for sd the spyderco military is the best option. ZT’s are probably better at scaring off an opponent and prying/cutting materials is their best use

I'm on the fence about that. I don't have knife SD experience, but I was under the impression that most knife training for defensive purposes generally centers around stabbing, as it's more devastating to a target than cuts and is more instinctual for the wielder. I think you'd be better off trying to only slash, but I don't know if that's what human beings will actually do.

That being said, I think a military would be more than fine for slashing. I don't think I'd trust mine for stabbing anything, though.

 

[jstn]

Cold Steel Drop Forged Bowie , on piece (integral) of drop forged 52100 steel with nothing extra to break , maintain or clean . Very strong and inexpensive .

Cold Steel Holdout in CTS-XHP steel and DLC , with Tri-ad lock . Extremely capable , large , trouble free and relatively inexpensive .

It's highly unlikely you'd ever have a lock closure issue (once broken in ) with either of the above !

That Bowie looks good. I have been looking that but figured the handle to be too slick. The tape is a very pragmatic solution, even if not the most aesthetically appealing. Now I'm gonna have to copy you.

 

[Yonose]

I'm on the fence about that. I don't have knife SD experience, but I was under the impression that most knife training for defensive purposes generally centers around stabbing, as it's more devastating to a target than cuts and is more instinctual for the wielder. I think you'd be better off trying to only slash, but I don't know if that's what human beings will actually do.

There aren’t any rules for knife fights except survive, which is why every scenario is different—so if I thought it likely to be challenged (such as areas where mugging/stabbing occur almost daily) a folder is not ideal, but if I had no other option a 0350 would not be what I’d carry. A big knife(10” blade)under a leather jacket or a cane.

 

[KooKooforKukripuffs]

I definitely think a well respected seller would disclose if the knife had failed a spine tap test.

But many here don't consider it a failure.

 

[Yonose]

I'm on the fence about that. I don't have knife SD experience, but I was under the impression that most knife training for defensive purposes generally centers around stabbing, as it's more devastating to a target than cuts and is more instinctual for the wielder. I think you'd be better off trying to only slash, but I don't know if that's what human beings will actually do.

That being said, I think a military would be more than fine for slashing. I don't think I'd trust mine for stabbing anything, though.

I didn’t see the last sentence. I disagree about the military not being stabby. It might bend a little if it hit a rib or the skull, but I wouldn’t be keeping it afterward anyway. The military tip will break if it’s bent back and forth, but it will stab through whatever it needs to to get the job done right the first time.

 

[Yonose]

But many here don't consider it a failure.

Surely, but good sellers here are usually more honest than ZT (apparently)imo. If the odds are 50% that a buyer will consider it a failure, and the seller has had the knife fail, it would be easier to disclose and let potential buyers decide.

 

[Lapedog]

What you disagree with that? I don’t see how the spine of a knife getting hit with force during an altercation is so unbelievable.

Even though the vast majority of users will never need a knife for sd use these are marketed as tactical knives. That implies potential fighting use. Especially the Emerson collabs.

It’s like buying a Ferrari and finding out it can’t race cause they only put a 4 cylinder engine in it. Sure for the average user he doesn’t need it. Sure for the average knife guy’s use he doesn't need a lock that will stand up to fighting use. It is supposed to be a feature of the product I bought.

 

[Lapedog]

I'm curious, if you were to sell one of these ZTs that are prone to this failure, but as some here consider it not abnormal, would the seller have to disclose this if they were to happen to sell it here on the exchange?

Yes. You would sell at a loss if you had any integrity.

Yonose there are tons of knife fighting styles that favour the thrust over the slash. You can’t just say that people are goingnto be mainly slashing in an sd scenario. Even if someone slashes exclusively that doesn’t preclude the spine getting struck.

Anyway we’ve spent pages now talking about sd (mostly me) and while it somewhat pertains to the thread topic it’s gone off onto a far tangent. Lets try to focus on the main topic more. My points about lock failure have been made. Either way I agree with craytab that one must make sure their lock is working to their standards if they are going to carry a knife with the potential for this role in mind.

 

[Steely_Gunz]

That Bowie looks good. I have been looking that but figured the handle to be too slick. The tape is a very pragmatic solution, even if not the most aesthetically appealing. Now I'm gonna have to copy you.

I sprayed the handle of my boot knife with truck bed liner paint. Just be sure not to get it around where the guard latches into the sheath or it'll jam up.

 

[marrenmiller]

There aren’t any rules for knife fights except survive, which is why every scenario is different—so if I thought it likely to be challenged (such as areas where mugging/stabbing occur almost daily) a folder is not ideal, but if I had no other option a 0350 would not be what I’d carry. A big knife under a leather jacket or a cane.

For sure. I'm just saying that it would suck to be limited to only slashing to defend yourself.

I didn’t see the last sentence. I disagree about the military not being stabby. It might bend a little if it hit a rib or the skull, but I wouldn’t be keeping it afterward anyway. The military tip will break if it’s bent back and forth, but it will stab through whatever it needs to to get the job done right the first time.

I wasn't commenting on the blade shape, but rather the lock. If the lock held, it'd be fine. But I wouldn't trust a liner lock for that.

 

[Yonose]

I didn’t mean to derail the thread into sd and or practac but I agree with both Lapedog and marrenmiller ; you have to be able to trust your folder—and while I’ve never experienced lock problems with either ZT or spyderco, this thread does make me think twice about using ZT’s in certain situations.
Backcuts should not be encouraged with a folder in any case, ymmv.

 

[firefighterguy]

Thanks for sharing. Since two others got fixed up recently, it's possible they will fix it now too. How long ago did you send it to them prior?

I think it would be a good idea if we sent them videos before hand too. It just helps them out more.

This is the knifes third trip for this issue. Honestly I’ve lost track of how long it’s been since this whole thing started. They are actually pretty quick at getting the knife back to me. Usually around 2 weeks each time.

I'm curious, if you were to sell one of these ZTs that are prone to this failure, but as some here consider it not abnormal, would the seller have to disclose this if they were to happen to sell it here on the exchange?

I would. It’s one of the reasons I really want my knife fixed. I can’t imagine that anyone would pay me much of anything for my knife if they saw the lock failure video. Honestly I can’t even sell the knife in good consience. When I sell the knife I’ll have to disclose that it’s been in for warranty repair 4 times total. I’m pretty screwed considering I paid $240 for the knife.

 

[marrenmiller]

This is the knifes third trip for this issue. Honestly I’ve lost track of how long it’s been since this whole thing started. They are actually pretty quick at getting the knife back to me. Usually around 2 weeks each time.



I would. It’s one of the reasons I really want my knife fixed. I can’t imagine that anyone would pay me much of anything for my knife if they saw the lock failure video. Honestly I can’t even sell the knife in good consience. When I sell the knife I’ll have to disclose that it’s been in for warranty repair 4 times total. I’m pretty screwed considering I paid $240 for the knife.

Are they covering the shipping costs now?

 

[firefighterguy]

Are they covering the shipping costs now?

Yes. They have paid for the last two trips.

 

[marrenmiller]

Yes. They have paid for the last two trips.

Thank God.

 

[Tommy-Chi]

I'm on the fence about that. I don't have knife SD experience, but I was under the impression that most knife training for defensive purposes generally centers around stabbing, as it's more devastating to a target than cuts and is more instinctual for the wielder. I think you'd be better off trying to only slash, but I don't know if that's what human beings will actually do.

That being said, I think a military would be more than fine for slashing. I don't think I'd trust mine for stabbing anything, though.

The 5 Filipino martial arts styles that I've studied use slashing strikes 2/3 of the time, 1/3 of the time a thrust.

 

[marrenmiller]

The 5 Filipino martial arts styles that I've studied use slashing strikes 2/3 of the time, 1/3 of the time a thrust.

I'm sure a variety of different styles emphasize different techniques. Definitely wouldn't want to not be able to thrust, though.

 

[Tommy-Chi]

I sprayed the handle of my boot knife with truck bed liner paint. Just be sure not to get it around where the guard latches into the sheath or it'll jam up.

It the handle far far more grippy? Does the grip compress at all? Was the bed liner material I can buy at the store?

Thanks!

 

[Lapedog]

The 5 Filipino martial arts styles that I've studied use slashing strikes 2/3 of the time, 1/3 of the time a thrust.

Of course we all know filipinos are the only people ever to use knives for fighting.