ZT hit its peak? Or are they just morphing into something else?

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I don't understand why they don't release a non-LE version of the 392 at $275-$300 and produce them year round. Get rid of ano costs and just make a standard base version that you can do sprint LE runs now and then. Beyond that, they seem to have diversified into a lot of different markets but still cover the tough use well.
 
bodog said:
I'm offering suggestions to the KAI reps who I figure read this without posting. No, I'm not a fan boy but I do recognize what they could do in a big way that fits directly into their motto from the beginning. They're obviously not opposed as they made some hatchets and pens and bayonets and whatnot. It just happens that those things were probably overpriced for the intended market so they didn't sell that well. And they put the idea out waaayyyy before they were ready to come to the market. The furor had died off before the piece dropped to dealers.
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Ha ha, that is really a laugh. Try reading your posts from the point of view of your intended victims...er targets...um, rather beneficiaries of your sage wisdom. All of your suggestions are unlikely to be taken seriously if they are delivered as insults as they ALWAYS are. Your characterization of ZT factory employees being out of touch is pretty insulting since it is clear that you assume there aren't veterans working there, or former LEOS, or other first responders. How about the possibility that spouses or family members of employees might be "on the ground".

Not to mention how your premise for this thread insults ZT's collaborating designers. You're insulting the likes of Rick Hinderer, Todd Rexford, Les George, Ernest Emerson, Jen's Anso, RJ Martin, and Dmitry Sinkevich. You don't like their designs, that's fine, don't buy them, complain about them, whatever. But just because you are "on the ground" doesn't mean you have any idea who they talk to, hang out with, or consult with about how they design their knives (though it ought to be pretty damn obvious even to you who some of these designers hang out with).

I agree with the people that have pointed out that your inexplicable tunnel vision prevents you from seeing the current production ZT knives that are true to the vision that ZT started with.

If you are truly just trying to make suggestions to ZT, grow up a bit and just nicely post your ideas without insulting everyone at ZT.

If you don't like something ZT does and feel the need to complain, why not post constructive criticism instead of thinly veiled insults?
 
Because you suck, and we hate you
An open letter to the gun community from HK’s marketing department: In a world of compromises, some people put the bullets in the magazine backwards…But it doesn’t matter, because our gun is on the cover of the Rainbow Six video games. Look how cool that SEAL coming out of the water looks… If you buy a $2,000 SOCOM, you will be that cool of an operator too. And chicks will dig you.

At HK, we stuck a piston on an AR15, just like a bunch of other companies have done, dating back to about 1969. However ours is better, because we refuse to sell it to civilians. Because you suck, and we hate you.
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I'd like to see ZT do a CRK zaan with flipper on bearings at $180 to $240. I really like the blade shape on the zaan.
 
NJBillK said:
So privately owned companies (knife or otherwise) should have to be the ones who are responsible for following our laws on a state by state (if not county by county) basis due to local laws.
Not the individual or the vendor that sells them locally (if not.purchased online), if they are they would have to have them shipped to a vendor and therefore cost even more?
Please keep in mind the cost for hiring a legal team to look.into each purchasers legality (since we can't trust them and need ID).

Got it.
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bodog said:
What the hell are you talking about? If you attack me for saying that then you need to attack any company that makes any tool that are only allowed by law for cops, military, firefighters, etc.
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Please see the text in bold, already mentioned that.

Companies jobs are to make goods, perform services and generate income. To make a line of items for those who serve, would be to do so at the expense of their bottom line, since I doubt it would be as profitable as making an item for the general public.
Do I feel that those who serve deserve their own tools built to a higher spec, or built to standard but at a lower dollar value as a "thank you", or to have tools designed for their particular needs, yes. But the legality isn't to fall on the person who makes it, just the vendor who sells it.

That being said, you would like ZT to be that company, but can you not see that they chose to take another path?
I am not saying that they will never get back to that, but a thread on a forum (that they aren't a member of) by some guy isn't likely to be the thing that makes them realize it.

How about setting up an online petition and give out the site name to your "plenty" of people and start taking down names and emails as a contact for ZT. If you want this to happen, you would have to be the push behind the ball effectively.
Not just ranting on a forum... Do you think that Benchmade knows that someone may be championing a multitool from them in some corner of the Internet that they don't frequent?

The old adage stands true, in a slightly broader sense.
Be the change you want to see in the world.
 
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NJBillK said:
Please see the text in bold, already mentioned that.

Companies jobs are to make goods, perform services and generate income. To make a line of items for those who serve, would be to do so at the expense of their bottom line, since I doubt it would be as profitable as making an item for the general public.
Do I feel that those who serve deserve their own tools built to a higher spec, or built to standard but at a lower dollar value as a "thank you", or to have tools designed for their particular needs, yes. But the legality isn't to fall on the person who makes it, just the vendor who sells it.

That being said, you would like ZT to be that company, but can you not see that they chose to take another path?
I am not saying that they will never get back to that, but a thread on a forum (that they aren't a member of) by some guy isn't likely to be the thing that makes them realize it.

How about setting up an online petition and give out the site name to your "plenty" of people and start taking down names and emails as a contact for ZT. If you want this to happen, you would have to be the push behind the ball effectively.
Not just ranting on a forum... Do you think that Benchmade knows that someone may be championing a multitool from them in some corner of the Internet that they don't frequent?

The old adage stands true, in a slightly broader sense.
Be the change you want to see in the world.
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They come here and read. Don't be naive. The reason they shut their subforum was because no one could be civil about anything. Kind of like in this thread. No reason not to be able to talk and discuss and share ideas but some of you guys are hellbent on crapping all over everything. Tell me, have you done anything besides try to flame me? What about scurvy? Has he done anything but try to get the thread closed down? For what purpose? Because you don't agree with my suggestion? You made it clear you don't want KAI moving into that world. Don't know why but that's your opinion. Mine is that they easily could and theyd do well at it because they started up by tapping into the "quality tools for professionals" idea and expanding that line into that world could and would be appreciated and used by guys onour end. Not for them to simply say thank you or whatever pettiness you're trying to attach. Others have other opinions.

For whatever it's worth a man just died in front of me this morning while I was trying to get to him. Was using a hammer to break through the windshield and pull him out. Breaking the window wasn't enough, having some kind of rake would've been hugely helpful and probably would've kept me from cutting my hand up and getting glass all in my mouth. He stopped breathing and lost his pulse and the truck was in danger of igniting so we backed off but I wonder if there was some kind of collapsible window breaker with some kind of built in collapsible rake that could hook and pull better than a hammer and baton. Something that can be easily thrown into a gear bag and carried around. Maybe we could've gotten to him before it became useless and recklessly dangerous to try to save him anymore. Didn't even need a seat belt cutter because we barely got through the windshield before he showed real signs of expiring and none of us want to die in flames trying to save a 99% certain dead man.
 
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kneedeep said:
Ha ha, that is really a laugh. Try reading your posts from the point of view of your intended victims...er targets...um, rather beneficiaries of your sage wisdom. All of your suggestions are unlikely to be taken seriously if they are delivered as insults as they ALWAYS are. Your characterization of ZT factory employees being out of touch is pretty insulting since it is clear that you assume there aren't veterans working there, or former LEOS, or other first responders. How about the possibility that spouses or family members of employees might be "on the ground".

Not to mention how your premise for this thread insults ZT's collaborating designers. You're insulting the likes of Rick Hinderer, Todd Rexford, Les George, Ernest Emerson, Jen's Anso, RJ Martin, and Dmitry Sinkevich. You don't like their designs, that's fine, don't buy them, complain about them, whatever. But just because you are "on the ground" doesn't mean you have any idea who they talk to, hang out with, or consult with about how they design their knives (though it ought to be pretty damn obvious even to you who some of these designers hang out with).

I agree with the people that have pointed out that your inexplicable tunnel vision prevents you from seeing the current production ZT knives that are true to the vision that ZT started with.

If you are truly just trying to make suggestions to ZT, grow up a bit and just nicely post your ideas without insulting everyone at ZT.

If you don't like something ZT does and feel the need to complain, why not post constructive criticism instead of thinly veiled insults?
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well put sir. thank you
 
bodog said:
For whatever it's worth a man just died in front of me this morning while I was trying to get to him. Was using a hammer to break through the windshield and pull him out. Breaking the window wasn't enough, having some kind of rake would've been hugely helpful and probably would've kept me from cutting my hand up and getting glass all in my mouth. He stopped breathing and lost his pulse and the truck was in danger of igniting so we backed off but I wonder if there was some kind of collapsible window breaker with some kind of built in collapsible rake that could hook and pull better than a hammer and baton. Something that can be easily thrown into a gear bag and carried around. Maybe we could've gotten to him before it became useless and recklessly dangerous to try to save him anymore. Didn't even need a seat belt cutter because we barely got through the windshield before he showed real signs of expiring and none of us want to die in flames trying to save a 99% certain dead man.
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so why are you not carrying a product thats already on the market for that purpose of breaking windshields? is ZT the only company you purchase from? or are you just giving ZT an example so they can make you something if they read this?

your op could have been something way more constructive and thought out. instead it came out of left field. the same with the last ZT thread you made.
 
bodog said:
They come here and read. Don't be naive. The reason they shut their subforum was because no one could be civil about anything. Kind of like in this thread. No reason not to be able to talk and discuss and share ideas but some of you guys are hellbent on crapping all over everything. Tell me, have you done anything besides try to flame me? What about scurvy? Has he done anything but try to get the thread closed down? For what purpose? Because you don't agree with my suggestion? You made it clear you don't want KAI moving into that world. Don't know why but that's your opinion. Mine is that they easily could and theyd do well at it because they started up by tapping into the "quality tools for professionals" idea and expanding that line into that world could and would be appreciated and used by guys onour end. Not for them to simply say thank you or whatever pettiness you're trying to attach. Others have other opinions.

For whatever it's worth a man just died in front of me this morning while I was trying to get to him. Was using a hammer to break through the windshield and pull him out. Breaking the window wasn't enough, having some kind of rake would've been hugely helpful and probably would've kept me from cutting my hand up and getting glass all in my mouth. He stopped breathing and lost his pulse and the truck was in danger of igniting so we backed off but I wonder if there was some kind of collapsible window breaker with some kind of built in collapsible rake that could hook and pull better than a hammer and baton. Something that can be easily thrown into a gear bag and carried around. Maybe we could've gotten to him before it became useless and recklessly dangerous to try to save him anymore. Didn't even need a seat belt cutter because we barely got through the windshield before he showed real signs of expiring and none of us want to die in flames trying to save a 99% certain dead man.
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Yes they probably do come hear and read. But even when they were here and active they asked you to knock it off. Yet the drum still plays a beat and the horse skeleton is surely dust. I honestly think you and I are are the two people kai would listen to the least. If you think they are doing anything but a facepalm after reading this thread and your "suggestions" and saying to themselves "and they wonder why we left", it only shows how much you just dont get and probably never will.


Btw, stoic is a person who can endure pain and hardship without showing their feelings or complaining. So no. Stoic is probably the last word that applies to the approach shown in the op and subsequent responses to the vast amount of people openly disagreeing with you.
 
NJBillK said:
Please see the text in bold, already mentioned that.

Companies jobs are to make goods, perform services and generate income. To make a line of items for those who serve, would be to do so at the expense of their bottom line, since I doubt it would be as profitable as making an item for the general public.
Do I feel that those who serve deserve their own tools built to a higher spec, or built to standard but at a lower dollar value as a "thank you", or to have tools designed for their particular needs, yes. But the legality isn't to fall on the person who makes it, just the vendor who sells it.
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To say that anything I have stated here is out of pity is taking it out of context. I genuinely believe that folks that have a need for these tools, should have them at their disposal. And do not think I am saying that tools should be built to a lower standard, I am saying built to spec, but charged less for them.
On top of that, I do feel that those who serve should be given a break on certain items. Much like the Veterans of WW2, when they came back, if they wanted an education, it was paid for as a thank you. If they wanted a mortgage, it was interest free as a thank you.

While they may not break a bank, it was a service provided as a "thank you" exactly like I stated that other companies should do. To say that it was done out of pity is just wrong, both literally and figuratively.
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See below for what I have done in regards to not trying to flame you.
This is sound advice.

You apparently have inroads that you feel ZT does not or is not taking advantage of. So help them help you.

If you would like for them to see what they are missing, show them.
NJBillK said:
How about setting up an online petition and give out the site name to your "plenty" of people and start taking down names and emails as a contact for ZT. If you want this to happen, you would have to be the push behind the ball effectively.
<snip>
The old adage stands true, in a slightly broader sense.
Be the change you want to see in the world.
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bodog said:
Tell me, have you done anything besides try to flame me?
<snip>
Because you don't agree with my suggestion? You made it clear you don't want KAI moving into that world. Don't know why but that's your opinion.(You are wrong about this being my stance, please see above) Mine is that they easily could and theyd do well at it because they started up by tapping into the "quality tools for professionals" idea and expanding that line into that world could and would be appreciated and used by guys onour end. Not for them to simply say thank you or whatever pettiness you're trying to attach. Others have other opinions.
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All of this being said, I do felt that ZT makes some good and some not so good production knives.
Yes their geometry can use some work (thinning behind the edge), but that comes out of how most people use knives as screwdrivers and prybars, while still keeping it from chipping.

Most knife companies don't make knives for "Us", the knife knut community. Otherwise they would be thinner BTE, ran harder, and offerro a wider array of alloys in certain popular platforms.
 
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Well I'm not really a flipper enthusiast but the two ZT's that I own, 0562cf and 0452 cf, I really like. Looking at their current catalogue, the 0909 interests me the most. I'd like to get one of the old school ZT's just because.
 
As it has been said ZT has success with most of its collaborations with designers
And this may be what may be confusing for some customer as the company don't have much designs by itself
On liking the 03* series may have limited apériteur for another serie, or vice-versa

I like lots of the 03*, 08*, 09* while other fe the 05*, 04* may be less interesting for me

But at the end they are all'ZT and in their niches they all do pretty well

For what concern me I am more sceptical about their last limited edition with lot of fancy colour etc...
even if they demonstrate the capabilities of the company ...

At the end if something may disturb some of us it some series it is not fair to put everything at shame
 
bodog said:
They come here and read. Don't be naive. The reason they shut their subforum was because no one could be civil about anything. Kind of like in this thread. No reason not to be able to talk and discuss and share ideas but some of you guys are hellbent on crapping all over everything. Tell me, have you done anything besides try to flame me? What about scurvy? Has he done anything but try to get the thread closed down? For what purpose? Because you don't agree with my suggestion? You made it clear you don't want KAI moving into that world. Don't know why but that's your opinion. Mine is that they easily could and theyd do well at it because they started up by tapping into the "quality tools for professionals" idea and expanding that line into that world could and would be appreciated and used by guys onour end. Not for them to simply say thank you or whatever pettiness you're trying to attach. Others have other opinions.

For whatever it's worth a man just died in front of me this morning while I was trying to get to him. Was using a hammer to break through the windshield and pull him out. Breaking the window wasn't enough, having some kind of rake would've been hugely helpful and probably would've kept me from cutting my hand up and getting glass all in my mouth. He stopped breathing and lost his pulse and the truck was in danger of igniting so we backed off but I wonder if there was some kind of collapsible window breaker with some kind of built in collapsible rake that could hook and pull better than a hammer and baton. Something that can be easily thrown into a gear bag and carried around. Maybe we could've gotten to him before it became useless and recklessly dangerous to try to save him anymore. Didn't even need a seat belt cutter because we barely got through the windshield before he showed real signs of expiring and none of us want to die in flames trying to save a 99% certain dead man.
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So are you now a Firefighter running with the rescue squad too? There are already tools like this out there and they reside on our apparatus like they should. Also the coolest little operator multi tool will not do what you wanted to either. We train for all kinds of different situations with all kinds of different tools. Just because you can buy this cool tool doesn't mean you know how to operate it. A simple Halligan bar would have been sufficient or even a Firemans axe. I would ask where the Fire dept was in this excursion you know for extrication and fire suppression but I expect it probably had something to do with pew pews and helicopters.

To help those who don't know: Mainly used as a forcible entry tool, its also a FF's multi tool for being able to do lots more.
hooligan.gif


Point being if you don't know what the hell you're doing with a tool you probably shouldn't be using it. Just because you can buy it means nothing in my world, training is key.

I also take offense to you bring up that this person that just perished as a point to help further your nonsense and to make people feel whatever it is you think they will feel for you. A persons life is not supposed to be used to further an agenda. I also can tell you that its not cool in any way shape or form to talk about a victim the way you have. Any self respecting LEO, FF, or FR wouldn't even fathom bringing up something like this that they just seen today in front of their own eyes. It takes a damn long time to process and suppress that kind of stuff.

You should be ashamed of yourself period.
 
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I wish Lamborghini still made tractors. They were indestructible. No farmer would ever consider a Gallardo.
When will Lamborghini start making tractors again?
 
bad_juju said:
I also take offense to you bring up that this person that just perished as a point to help further your nonsense and to make people feel whatever it is you think they will feel for you. A persons life is not supposed to be used to further an agenda. I also can tell you that its not cool in any way shape or form to talk about a victim the way you have. Any self respecting LEO, FF, or FR wouldn't even fathom bringing up something like this that they just seen today in front of their own eyes. It takes a damn long time to process and suppress that kind of stuff.

You should be ashamed of yourself period.
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x 1000. :thumbup:
 
benzy2 said:
I don't understand why they don't release a non-LE version of the 392 at $275-$300 and produce them year round. Get rid of ano costs and just make a standard base version that you can do sprint LE runs now and then. Beyond that, they seem to have diversified into a lot of different markets but still cover the tough use well.
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If they would make a production 0392 with a g10 side, with a blackwash or black blade(drop point, spanto, bowie) and hardware. I would buy 2 right now lol.
 
As purple pointed out this has been going on in one form or another for years. It has been explained why zt isn't moving in the direction described in the op. It has also been said the tools desired in the topic exist and can help the folks on the ground if the time is taken to find them from other companies. A way has even been shown to take this issue that many care so much about to the people who can actually produce these tools (talk to zt). Not much of that has mattered though.

The interesting part of the topic has been covered and opinions shared on the actual state of zt's current and future production.

If we stop responding to the part of this topic that has been completely coverd above and focus on the reality of zt production, the undesirable part of this thread will die. That is what I plan to do from here on out.
 
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