ZT LE's to be Consumer Direct only

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Free market capitalism is awesome. ZT should make whatever they want to, and sell them for whatever damn price they like. If they don't make enough LE knives, and the secondary market price is too high (ex. 0777, 0888, 0454), then i'll just keep buying Pro-Techs and Microtechs instead.

The 0888 is a nice knife, but for $1500 I'd rather have a Halo, a couple of Large Dons, a DOC, and maybe a vintage Dalton.
 
bigmark408 said:
Your ignorance is appalling, after I sold my knives at 400.00 each others were selling them for much more so I changed the price and closed my thread to not hurt the sales of others.

You have been here for 8 months and make some very strong accusations.

Look at my rep and ask around about me, ask other forum owners about my actions before you falsely accuse.

I turned down sales on some of those knives to sell them to our guardians.

And there are many knife stores in the bay area over a dozen within a 60 mile radius of me.

Stay on topic please.
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Ignorance is not the word to use on someone who knows exactly what you did. I hope those who bought them from you would chime in here. You sold them at $600 each. Free market yada yada, it's all good: you dont have to lie. I could have signed up yesterday and not 8 months ago and you'd still be a liar, that doesnt change it.

They are not accusations...It is a fact. A strong one at that.

It is on topic. You are participating here because this ZT decision obviously affects you. Talking about why you care so much to repeatedly post your skepticism can get us closer to truths than just speculating on what's gonna happen when they already made the decision to implement this change.
 
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nwmetalbug said:
One customer getting 4 LE knives is exactly why we are where we are.
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Then selling it for $600 each the very next day.

Yes, Capitalism. Yes, free market... Murrica. It's all true. All this is okay in that regard but ZT obviously wants some uniformity and fairness when it comes to their LE's reaching their customers who wait months to years for them.

I want pre need replacements sometimes.... This will make that difficult/impossible, but with ZT trying to clean up the mess surrounding $800 0560 CBCF's from dealers for example, it's a fair sacrifice to at least try. They are FREE to run their business they see fit after all.
 
Stays Sharp said:
Then selling it for $600 each the very next day.

Yes, Capitalism. Yes, free market... Murrica. It's all true. All this is okay in that regard but ZT obviously wants some uniformity and fairness when it comes to their LE's reaching their customers who wait months to years for them.

I want pre need replacements sometimes.... This will make that difficult/impossible, but with ZT trying to clean up the mess surrounding $800 0560 CBCF's from dealers for example, it's a fair sacrifice to at least try. They are FREE to run their business they see fit after all.
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as someone said. Free market goes all ways. A manufacturer can sell their wares any way they see fit. This is all good for the consumer so I don't see the problem. I think the people complaining are the ones buying zt knives specifically to speculate on them. Before when I saw that new zt/hinderer knife I thought "that looks nice but ill never be able to get one at the $300 quoted price since they'll all be bought up and flipped on eBay for $550-600"
 
I see this doing 3 things:

1) A meaningless "punishment" for dealers that were selling way over MSRP (but not really, it's a couple LE sales) Those claiming free market realize that ZT is doing this to hinder dealers and individuals from selling for whatever price the market will bear, which is the EXACT definition of a free market. ZT is trying to create a regulated market, the exact opposite. Which they are free to do, but it's anything but a free market.
2) Make it slightly, yes only slightly harder for those guys that buy multiples to flip for profit
3) Make sure no one pays less than MSRP, and greatly increase ZT's own profits per knife.

It will be interesting to see how it works, I don't believe it's going to make it any easier for the average person to get one, probably harder without any pre-orders and only one source, nor do I believe it's going to help secondary market pricing, depending on the amount released it's probably going to make it worse. Customers are now going to be competing with dealers when they hit the web page and my guess is dealers and those "in the know" are somehow going to get a heads up when these things are about to be posted.

The easy answer, is make it a regular production item, respond to demand, that simple step eliminates ALL the problems related to LE's. There's nothing special about the 0392, no laminated blade, no crazy exotic materials they learn in production they can't machine/heat treat, etc. I'd imagine ZT can produce/anodize spacers and pocket clips as well as Hinderer, etc. That fixes the whole issue, it's almost like ZT enjoys the chaos that surrounds their LE knives.
 
Let's be careful to not make each other the topic of conversation. If you want to rip each others guts out, Whine & Cheese is open 24/7.
 
bigmark408 said:
Read my post.

I said the dealers are their bread and butter...meaning they deserve the (LEs) for selling the rest of the line. :)

Online dealers pricing is so competitive they are not making a killing on productions.
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Dealers don't "deserve" anything, sorry man.
 
ToddM said:
The easy answer, is make it a regular production item, respond to demand, that simple step eliminates ALL the problems related to LE's. There's nothing special about the 0392, no laminated blade, no crazy exotic materials they learn in production they can't machine/heat treat, etc. I'd imagine ZT can produce/anodize spacers and pocket clips as well as Hinderer, etc. That fixes the whole issue, it's almost like ZT enjoys the chaos that surrounds their LE knives.
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ZT is introducing the idea of a factory custom. Manufacturing their own hardware wouldn't make the 0392 special, and would likely make it a regular production. The fact that you are getting RHK hardware which he does not mass produce warrants more for a limited run than not.
 
Stays Sharp said:
Indeed. I do appreciate them addressing this (at least trying to).
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+1

the total # of LE knive will not change, just the way it is distributed changed.
LE knife xyz total qty is 100, but 1000 people want it. the secondary market price will still shoot up
 
Mayenard said:
ZT is introducing the idea of a factory custom. Manufacturing their own hardware wouldn't make the 0392 special, and would likely make it a regular production. The fact that you are getting RHK hardware which he does not mass produce warrants more for a limited run than not.
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To me little bits from Hinderer isn't anything special and doesn't fit my definition of "custom", since from what we've heard so far the customer will have no options available at the time of ordering, you'll take whatever color/style they offer, only after your purchase will you be "privileged" enough to get to spend $100+ changing the color of those little non-functional bits, but that's semantics and I can appreciate the marketing tactic.

The knife design is what intrigues me, colored handle spacers aren't going to improve it's function and I doubt Hinderers perform or spec any better than what ZT would produce. I'd hope most users aren't anticipating this knife because they can go spend $100+ buying different color standoffs/screws/clip from Hinderer, but sadly with the market trends these days I'm probably wrong.
 
Stays Sharp said:
Ignorance is not the word to use on someone who knows exactly what you did. I hope those who bought them from you would chime in here. You sold them at $600 each. Free market yada yada, it's all good: you dont have to lie. I could have signed up yesterday and not 8 months ago and you'd still be a liar, that doesnt change it.

They are not accusations...It is a fact. A strong one at that.

It is on topic. You are participating here because this ZT decision obviously affects you. Talking about why you care so much to repeatedly post your skepticism can get us closer to truths than just speculating on what's gonna happen when they already made the decision to implement this change.
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LOL, careful your going to look very silly if you get what you ask for :)

Your wrong. :)
 
ToddM said:
To me little bits from Hinderer isn't anything special and doesn't fit my definition of "custom", since from what we've heard so far the customer will have no options available at the time of ordering, you'll take whatever color/style they offer, only after your purchase will you be "privileged" enough to get to spend $100+ changing the color of those little non-functional bits, but that's semantics and I can appreciate the marketing tactic.

The knife design is what intrigues me, colored handle spacers aren't going to improve it's function and I doubt Hinderers perform or spec any better than what ZT would produce. I'd hope most users aren't anticipating this knife because they can go spend $100+ buying different color standoffs/screws/clip from Hinderer, but sadly with the market trends these days I'm probably wrong.
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This is my perspective on RHK hardware. It makes the knife that much more desirable, not because it functions that much better but because it is some of the best made hardware available on any knives, production or custom. Also, the fact that you have the option of changing your knife around with different colored hardware may not affect its performance but it is certainly a nice perk. Disclaimer, I only own Hinderers, I am biased. However, my bias was learned due to my experience with other High End production knives from Benchmade, spyderco, ZT, CRK, etc. For me, RHK separates themselves from all of those other manufacturers BECAUSE of their hardware. The fact you will be able to get that experience on a ZT knife is a win for all!
 
ToddM said:
To me little bits from Hinderer isn't anything special and doesn't fit my definition of "custom", since from what we've heard so far the customer will have no options available at the time of ordering, you'll take whatever color/style they offer, only after your purchase will you be "privileged" enough to get to spend $100+ changing the color of those little non-functional bits, but that's semantics and I can appreciate the marketing tactic.

The knife design is what intrigues me, colored handle spacers aren't going to improve it's function and I doubt Hinderers perform or spec any better than what ZT would produce. I'd hope most users aren't anticipating this knife because they can go spend $100+ buying different color standoffs/screws/clip from Hinderer, but sadly with the market trends these days I'm probably wrong.
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Agreed.
 
Interesting, I hope ZT makes it possible for customers outside of the US and Canada to order directly from their homepage. Otherwise I see a lot of disappointed people. Maybe there will be an exception and some products will go to dealers in Europe and other continents. I really hope to get a 0392.
 
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