ZT0560 prices: what am I missing?

Soooo, does that mean WallyWorld will carry the ZT-560/561?

Seriously, the XM-18 is nice - I appreciated the opportunity to fondle one. Actually, I was flattered - the salesman thought I could afford that thing! I do appreciate the 'real' thing. I recently bought the 0561 - and my pair of 0551's had company in the ZT-love department. They are all I need... more, in fact - I often don't feel 'worthy'!

I am reminded about my $150 closeout priced Buck 172 Ti/S30V framelock - a poor man's Sebenza. Really nice knife... loved it long time... then I got a real CRK - an Umnumzaan - then a small Sebbie - wow! My mind was made up - my CRK collection is stable - great knives, but I'd rather have more knives... more affordable good knives... thus the ZT's. No need for an XM-18 here - I am more than content with the ZT-0561.

Stainz
 
I would rather buy something that feels good in the hand like a Strider SMF or even the ZT 550 .....
 
purpled keep running your mouth cause your proving my points. subaru and ferrari are no where near the same thats why I said it. but because you can get a cheap car to be as fast or corner as good as an expensive one people think they are the same. just like you said with the knives. Dont argue with my opinion and then say the same thing. I dont post to try and argue but I have multiple of both knives in question. my opinion is they are both outstanding. Hinderers are in a different league. IF you can't afford a hinderer. buy a 560 because its as close as you will get for the money.
 
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PURPLEDC said:
I think the 0560 is a more attractive knife than the xm18. Ive handled XM18s and I own the 560. There are a couple reasons why I choose to own a production knife over high dollar customs. One is price. An xm18 is an overbuilt knife that is for sure but at the price they usually go for its not something I look at as disposable. A 0560 isnt exactly chump change either but they are easier on the wallet for sure. The second is that IMHO they are comparable as far as materials go. They are both Ti frame lock flipper knives. Kershaw is using the same grade Ti that any knifemaker has the ability to utilize. And the technology for making both frames is comparable. The attention to detail and exclusivity of the hinderer may have some appeal but honestly I think its rather elitist to think that kershaw is not capable of manufacturing a knife that is as reliable as any other maker. You may prefer one brand over another but at the end of the day High grade materials are high grade materials. And CNC machines are CNC machines. The technolgy in which knives are made are very quickly evening the playing field. Your even seeing more and more custom makers leaning heavily on CNC to even cut their blades. So much to the fact that it is blurring the lines of what a custom made knife is and isnt. Im not trying to devalue anything rick hinderer or any other maker does. They make fine products and they obviously have a market. I simply dont feel that there is anything magical or mystical about what they make. In other words NO KNIFE is made by wood elves and sprinkled in fairy dust with unicorn horn scale handles.
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I dunno, to hear some people, the Sebenza is...AND blessed with the force by Obi Wan Kenobi. :D
 
Hey All, Just wait and buy at $260. If you dont like what you get resale at or above the same price. They popped up a few days ago - 48 of them and were selling for 260 with free shipping.

Hinderer: Thats another thing altogether, a 700+ knife that really should cost the buyer 380. that is the true atrocity. I bought one recently, and they are pretty damn fantastic knives, but to be honest, I just don't see that 700 is justified for an XM18. or 1500 for a custom that cost the original buyer nearer to 500-700.

Either way, scarcity rules I suppose.
 
opgenorf said:
Hey All, Just wait and buy at $260. If you dont like what you get resale at or above the same price. They popped up a few days ago - 48 of them and were selling for 260 with free shipping.
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I got all geeked up about this knife like everybody else but kept my pants on. Got in on the deal mentioned above :). I'll probably keep my pants on for a 0561 too. Heck if we wait long enough the used ones will start popping up for much less than $260. I don't mind a few scratches here and there... :cool:
 
Jfoley4 said:
purpled keep running your mouth cause your proving my points. subaru and ferrari are no where near the same thats why I said it. but because you can get a cheap car to be as fast or corner as good as an expensive one people think they are the same. just like you said with the knives. Dont argue with my opinion and then say the same thing. I dont post to try and argue but I have multiple of both knives in question. my opinion is they are both outstanding. Hinderers are in a different league. IF you can't afford a hinderer. buy a 560 because its as close as you will get for the money.
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First of all Im free to state anything I feel like short of insulting you or calling you names. I dont know who you think you are but we both have the right to our opinions and just because you have one does not qualify it as a fact. You made a point that ferrari and subaru are different and your correct. Im asking which one is theoretically "better". Judging by your points it would appear that for you "better" is simply more expensive. While someone else might feel that "better" is to have a comparable product that is made from the same material that will perform to the same level yet cost less. The reason Im "running my mouth" about your comparison is that the 0560 and a hinderer XM knife have more in common than they do differences. Its like comparing two varieties of apples lets say a granny smith VS. a McIntosh. The car analogy is more of an apples to oranges comparison. Either way at the end of the day there is no reason why I cant disagree with you and state my points no matter how much they contradict what you think. At the end of the day you can sit their with you elitist attitude of how your hinderers (multiples of them as you pointed out) are always going to be better than a production knife because they cost more. And I will continue to believe that your paying for the exclusivity and luxury of the product and not because it is a more dependable and reliable product. Is the knife in another league? Yes its in a higher price bracket and therefore technically in a different league. Im still waiting for the proof that it is without a doubt "better". With technology in knifemaking being what it is today the human element is more and more removed from the end product and the gap of quality levels between production and custom is quickly closing. But hey, If I spent $600 on a knife (and again Multiples) I wouldnt want to admit that its no better than my $300 knife. Most humans would rather create a delusion of grandeur than admit they are full of it.
 
ono724 said:
I dunno, to hear some people, the Sebenza is...AND blessed with the force by Obi Wan Kenobi. :D
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I had a Sebbie. It was a Very nice knife. But an overpriced nice knife. But hey, at least I can admit that I will overpay for an item if I like it enough to pay the price. I dont have to make excuses to justify my spending.
 
PURPLEDC said:
I had a Sebbie. It was a Very nice knife. But an overpriced nice knife. But hey, at least I can admit that I will overpay for an item if I like it enough to pay the price. I dont have to make excuses to justify my spending.
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I've handled a friend's snakewood large Sebenza. I was not impressed, though I'll concede it's one of the finest production knives out there. The fit of a Sebenza is toleranced to thousands of an inch, but to me, there's no actual practical benefit to that. It's a folding knife, not a bullseye pistol.

I wouldn't say the knife is overpriced for what it cost to make, but to end users like me, the price doesn't help when there are other knives that are sturdier and using superior steels at the same price or below.

There's a point where the insane fit and finish doesn't do anything for me. Fit and finish has diminishing marginal benefit. As long as the knife appears reasonably finished, is solidly made, and holds up to use, it's good to go.
 
to you they are both just knives. just like a subaru and a ferrari are both just a car. A Kimber and a wilson combat are both 1911's they all are all apples being compared to apples. one is a more expensive more exclusive luxury apple but hey those companies stay in business people must be buying overpriced crap someone should tell them the lesser version does the same thing. Im pretty sure if I told you I would give you a xm or a 560 for free you would choose the xm. (I'm sure you would say yeah so could sell it and buy a zt and have 300 bucks) I dont know what kind of knives you like (not hinderer or sebenzas as you have stated). I guess we dont see eye to eye on this. thats okay with me. I have no problem with you I pay for what I think is worth it, overpriced it may seem to you.
 
They are not "just" knives...that's why people are in this forum to share their happiness with the knives they love and spend lots of money on. Some are really expensive and a lot of us cant afford them (like me :(). But i understand why they cost the amount they do. Because people here love knives and it makes them happy...yes 700$ is too much for a knife for most of us. But for non knife people 200$ is already an outrageous price for a folding knife!
 
Apec....better Fit + Finish and tighter tolerances = better quality, which means fewer problems down the road.
Certainly worth the extra $ to know that you don't have to worry about blade-play or lockup issues.
I love how ZT meets us in the middle though.
 
Jfoley4 said:
to you they are both just knives. just like a subaru and a ferrari are both just a car. A Kimber and a wilson combat are both 1911's they all are all apples being compared to apples. one is a more expensive more exclusive luxury apple but hey those companies stay in business people must be buying overpriced crap someone should tell them the lesser version does the same thing. Im pretty sure if I told you I would give you a xm or a 560 for free you would choose the xm. (I'm sure you would say yeah so could sell it and buy a zt and have 300 bucks) I dont know what kind of knives you like (not hinderer or sebenzas as you have stated). I guess we dont see eye to eye on this. thats okay with me. I have no problem with you I pay for what I think is worth it, overpriced it may seem to you.
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I think there is one thing though that your not getting. I DO like expensive knives. I would buy a hinderer, I HAVE bought sebbies. I never once said that I dont like any of these knives. Im simply stating that a good portion of the money you spend on some of these higher end knives is for the exclusivity of the product and IMHO is almost like paying to be a member of a small club. I think quality can only get so good before your paying for a name and bragging rights.
 
PURPLEDC said:
I think there is one thing though that your not getting. I DO like expensive knives. I would buy a hinderer, I HAVE bought sebbies. I never once said that I dont like any of these knives. Im simply stating that a good portion of the money you spend on some of these higher end knives is for the exclusivity of the product and IMHO is almost like paying to be a member of a small club. I think quality can only get so good before your paying for a name and bragging rights.
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Well said and without using the word "Koolaid".
 
opgenorf said:
Hey All, Just wait and buy at $260. If you dont like what you get resale at or above the same price. They popped up a few days ago - 48 of them and were selling for 260 with free shipping.

Hinderer: Thats another thing altogether, a 700+ knife that really should cost the buyer 380. that is the true atrocity. I bought one recently, and they are pretty damn fantastic knives, but to be honest, I just don't see that 700 is justified for an XM18. or 1500 for a custom that cost the original buyer nearer to 500-700.

Either way, scarcity rules I suppose.
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Where did these pop up?
 
* Let's try to avoid veiled insults and arguing over issues that have little to do with the topic of the thread. *
 
HuntBomb said:
Apec....better Fit + Finish and tighter tolerances = better quality, which means fewer problems down the road.
Certainly worth the extra $ to know that you don't have to worry about blade-play or lockup issues.
I love how ZT meets us in the middle though.
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Yes, but to some of us, there's a point where the value and benefit added is negligible for what it costs. Opinions on this vary greatly. The renowned Ernest Emerson seems to disagree with finish being important at all on a working tool (see http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/859777-Fit-and-Finish-A-Long-Story ), and some of us won't touch a knife that hasn't received the same attention to detail as a Sebenza.

I believe that tolerancing my ZT 0301 or auto-commander to thousandths of an inch adds no practical benefit. However, I would have problems if it came to me looking like one of the few Strider QC horror-stories that comes up time to time.


opgenorf said:
Hey All, Just wait and buy at $260. If you dont like what you get resale at or above the same price. They popped up a few days ago - 48 of them and were selling for 260 with free shipping.

Hinderer: Thats another thing altogether, a 700+ knife that really should cost the buyer 380. that is the true atrocity. I bought one recently, and they are pretty damn fantastic knives, but to be honest, I just don't see that 700 is justified for an XM18. or 1500 for a custom that cost the original buyer nearer to 500-700.

Either way, scarcity rules I suppose.
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Mr. Hinderer's direct price was $385 the last I recall. Granted getting a XM18 at that price is very difficult, much more difficult (an understatement) than getting a ZT0560 at dealer price. But as long as there are people are willing to pay that price on the secondary market or dealers with that kind of a markup, it won't be coming down.
 
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