12c27... why not more love?

[rustyrazor]

I offer alternatives if people want them in CPM154, ELMAX, 154CM, O1 8670M and a few others if someone knows what they like. I just use 12c27 as my base steel in "overall hard use" knives as I know its "infantry proof" and will be more than most guys will need, and be there till the job is done.

lol... and my "business" is not much of a business at all. I crank out between 0 and 4 knives a month, but it's coming.

 

[Mikael W]

For those who might be interested I have something for them to try, not for the faint at heart though.

They will need some leather gloves, good heavy ones are best.

1) Good down to the local hardware store and pick up some 175# heavy duty zip ties, they are cheap, pack of 10 18" ones for around $7 or so, the flat ones.

2) Get you a nice piece of wood to cut on, you will need it.

3) Put the zip tie on the wood flat and take that knife (whatever knife) and try and cut through the zip tie, your going to have to push cut through it. This is were the gloves come in because you will need to put your palm on the spine of the blade to make the cut and it's going to take a lot of pressure to do it.

Ok, Jim!
I have 800 Newton, 21" Zip ties.
I think that's the same as 175#, right?

I have made confetti of the first one:

How do You want the testprocedure done?


Regards
Mikael

 

[bld522]

This is just a guess, mind you. But I suspect Jim would want the test done with a blade constructed of 12C27. After all, that's the alloy under discussion in this thread, is it not? The parameters you'd need to apply and the outcomes you'd be looking to capture is a discussion you'd have to have with him. But I suspect it might have something to do with how many cuts you can make through the ties using the same area of the knife blade before the blade won't cut through them anymore. (PS: Looks like you had fun with your Odin! :thumbup: )

 

[Ankerson]

Ok, Jim!
I have 800 Newton, 21" Zip ties.
I think that's the same as 175#, right?

I have made confetti of the first one:

How do You want the testprocedure done?


Regards
Mikael

They might be, they look like the same as my 18" ones.

Waiting for people to try it with their folders, you know those 12c27 steel or better just to see.

Something people would actually carry, not many carry large fixed blades.

Done it myself with a few different knives (folders) so i wanted to see what other peoples reactions would be.

Thinking about adding it into my testing process for production blades.

 

[bld522]

That begs the question of how many people would choose to use a folder to cut through a material as tough as those ties, especially using a "cheap" 12C27 knife. But hey, what do I know?

 

[Ankerson]

That begs the question of how many people would choose to use a folder to cut through a material as tough as those ties. But hey, what do I know?

They are very tough and very hard to cut through.

I was thinking about adding it into my testing process for the production knives as I have tested a few already just to see.

 

[Mikael W]

3) Put the zip tie on the wood flat and take that knife (whatever knife) and try and cut through the zip tie, your going to have to push cut through it. This is were the gloves come in because you will need to put your palm on the spine of the blade to make the cut and it's going to take a lot of pressure to do it.

I guess I misunderstod!:foot:
I don't have any folders in 12c27 and I carry a 4" fixed blade as EDC, because of my work.


Regards
Mikael

 

[Ankerson]

I guess I misunderstod!:foot:
I don't have any folders in 12c27 and I carry a 4" fixed blade as EDC, because of my work.


Regards
Mikael

It's more of an experiment at this point, the steel really doesn't matter that much really.

 

[bld522]

They are very tough and very hard to cut through.

I assumed as much. If it were me, I'd be far more concerned about breakage than I would about wear resistance or edge failure.

There will be blood!

But then again, I do remember you saying something about using a HEAVY glove. I'm thinking more along the lines of chain mail.

 

[Ankerson]

I assumed as much. I'd be far more concerned about breakage than I would about wear resistance.

There will be blood!

More of an edge strength test really using proper cutting technique.

Push cut through it like 20 to 25 times or something.

 

[bld522]

Based on your posts, I wouldn't expect 12C27 to hold up real well. But then again, I wouldn't ask a 12C27 folder (or any other folder I'd be likely to carry) to cut that kind of material in the real world. So while I'd be interested in seeing the results, I'd have take them with a grain of salt.

 

[Ankerson]

Well based on your posts, I wouldn't expect 12C27 to hold up real well. But then again, I wouldn't ask a 12C27 knife to cut that material in the real world. So while I'd be interested in seeing the results, I'd have take them with a grain of salt.

It goes more to testing edge strength, I wouldn't expect anyone to do it in the real world without using some sort of cutters.

From what I have seen so far it seems like a good test though. :thumbup:

 

[bld522]

Cool. Carry on. :thumbup: If anybody's looking for me, I'll be sitting over here in the corner with my 12C27 Laguiole eating apples and cheese and waiting to hear the results.

 

[Ankerson]

Cool. Carry on. :thumbup: If anybody's looking for me, I'll be sitting over here in the corner with my 12C27 Laguiole waiting to hear the results.

A lot of people know how hard zip ties are to cut, especially those heavy duty ones.

So with a certain element out there that keeps talking about manila rope being soft media (It's really not) I figured I would add in something that is extremely hard to cut into the process.

So I figure I would add it in after the Cardboard and wood without sharpening to see if the edges hold up, that's cutting cardboard, wood and zip ties without touching the edge.

 

[Mikael W]

They might be, they look like the same as my 18" ones.

Waiting for people to try it with their folders, you know those 12c27 steel or better just to see.

Something people would actually carry, not many carry large fixed blades.

Done it myself with a few different knives (folders) so i wanted to see what other peoples reactions would be.

Thinking about adding it into my testing process for production blades.

Ok, I changed to a folder I have actually carried and used daily for ten years in the 1980'ies.
A very worn Kershaw 1050 in AUS 8.
As it isn't 12c27, it's off the test, but I did it for fun.

Another zip tie gone after 141 cuts.
Cuttingzone just behind the nailnick towards the handle.
The dirt on the blade is shaved beardhair.


Regards
Mikael

 

[Ankerson]

Ok, I changed to a folder I have actually carried and used daily for ten years in the 1980'ies.
A very worn Kershaw 1050 in AUS 8.
As it isn't 12c27, it's off the test, but I did it for fun.

Another zip tie gone after 141 cuts.
Cuttingzone just behind the nailnick towards the handle.
The dirt on the blade is shaved beardhair.


Regards
Mikael

Interesting.

 

[bodog]

A lot of people know how hard zip ties are to cut, especially those heavy duty ones.

So with a certain element out there that keeps talking about manila rope being soft media (It's really not) I figured I would add in something that is extremely hard to cut into the process.

So I figure I would add it in after the Cardboard and wood without sharpening to see if the edges hold up, that's cutting cardboard, wood and zip ties without touching the edge.

Sounds like a good add on to get to a good all around blade. You may also think about pallet straps. I bet those would be cheaper than zip ties and they're pretty rough on an edge if the steel isn't good.

 

[Ankerson]

Sounds like a good add on to get to a good all around blade. You may also think about pallet straps. I bet those would be cheaper than zip ties and they're pretty rough on an edge if the steel isn't good.

Yes, they can be, used to cut them at work a lot.

 

[rustyrazor]

Yes, they can be, used to cut them at work a lot.

I'm amazed this thread didn't start evolving into a "pallet straps... what about the whole pallet" cutting challenge. not that i'm complaining. I have really enjoyed the last 6 pages of this one and I'm loving reading everyone's civilized and thoughtful posts... not one troll or hater. I'll steal some zap straps from work and give it a go Jim... fixed blade in 12c27 though, not a folder as it's all i make.

 

[arty]

My personal use tells me not to lump steels with 1% carbon, like VG10, with lower carbon steels, like 12C27, which has .6% carbon. My kitchen knives in VG10 give me edge retention that is 3X that of my knives in 1095, or even 440C, so the older carbon 4Elephants rare get used any more. Properly heat treated VG10 will hold en edge for a long time and doesn't chip out, even going through tough material, like lobster shells.
I have seen some pretty hard 154CM and some that is much softer, so it is a mistake to generalize. However, I find that for daily use, I am happy with VG10, XHP or S35V. I gave up on lower carbon steels from Buck, 420HC, a long time ago. I couldn't get them to hold an edge for very long, and found myself sharpening too often.
I haven't used 12C27 enough to comment, but I usually prefer knives that will get me through some time before they need to be resharpened, and that means higher carbon content. If 12C27 is comparable to 1095 at similar edge geometry, I'd use it where I want a tougher blade. 5160 is great for large blades. I don't see VG10 in the same class as 5160, and would never think of it for the same purpose.
This may sound strange to you, but I use a box cutter for cardboard, when I have a lot to cut up. I use shears for zip ties, with heavy shears for thick ties.