440c comparisons (where does it stand?)

marcinek said:
But for me, it may not be. So "best" is meaningless in our context.

You may say apple is the best fruit for pies, Thomas Linton may say cherry, and I may say peach. One cannot rank them or say where blueberry fits among them in any meaningful way, let alone have the chutzpah to create a guide for the layman on them as strategy has.
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Blueberry ranks low in making a red-colored pie. Cherry and raspberry rank higher for that application. Peach is very good for chutzpah pie.
 
Thomas Linton said:
Blueberry ranks low in making a red-colored pie. Cherry and raspberry rank higher for that application. Peach is very good for chutzpah pie.
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Elegantly done analogy. :thumbup: And I like chutzpah pie with vanilla ice cream. Which is better than chocolate ice cream for all applications.
 
marcinek said:
But for me, it may not be. So "best" is meaningless in our context.

You may say apple is the best fruit for pies, Thomas Linton may say cherry, and I may say peach. One cannot rank them or say where blueberry fits among them in any meaningful way, let alone have the chutzpah to create a guide for the layman on them as strategy has.
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One CAN in fact rank them; you, Linton, and brownshoe can all rank them, and all 3 rankings can be different... It's not to say one is right or one is wrong, it's ranked based on preference. It CAN in fact be done though AND it very well can be meanful as well to open constructive dialogue on the subject matter at hand. For you to boldly claim that it "cannot" be done makes you quite frankly wrong when it very well can be. Maybe not for the ignorant, because for the ignorant very little can ever be deemed meaningful without first fitting their preconceived notions before hand.

What isn't meaningful is blatant attempts at disruption based on out of context interpretations, whose intent is solely to cause confusion without actually offering any constructive input to the conversation.

Like to talking about who the best QB ever in the NFL is; one may say Montana, another Manning, another Marino, and yet another Brady, while some old heads might say Fran Tarkenton or Otto Graham. Every one has their respected accolades, stats, and every one deserves recognition enough to be in the conversation, but which one is best? That is based purely on bias and preference.
Same with the comparable steels, one can like aus8, another sandvik 14c28n, another 7cr18mov, myself 440c... No where in the op did I ever claim that 440c is definitively the best steel ever. Nor even the definitive best of the bunch. I only compared it's composition against other steels often considered of a similar grade. It is my favorite of the bunch, but not once did I attempt to discredit the others nor did I ever imply that if someone else disagrees or if the prefer another, that they were wrong? Like the QB analogy, They all deserve be in the conversation, and they all have their own respective selling points. Absent of ignorance we could have a mature and respectful discussion on the overall topic. Still not sure why that is so hard for you to comprehend though?
 
strategy9 said:
One CAN in fact rank them; you, Linton, and brownshoe can all rank them, and all 3 rankings can be different... It's not to say one is right or one is wrong, it's ranked based on preference. It CAN in fact be done though AND it very well can be meanful as well to open constructive dialogue on the subject matter at hand. For you to boldly claim that it "cannot" be done makes you quite frankly wrong when it very well can be. Maybe not for the ignorant, because for the ignorant very little can ever be deemed meaningful without first fitting their preconceived notions before hand.... Absent of ignorance we could have a mature and respectful discussion on the overall topic. Still not sure why that is so hard for you to comprehend though?
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We can have that discussion about our preferences, and do all the time. But we aren't self-important enough to pass our preferences off as a guide to the layman like you tried to.

If you feel pointing out your conceit is "ignorance," than so be it. Well worth it to me.
 
Well then, if i could make it all worth it to you boo boo... I guess it's worth it to me.
 
You can rank for toughness...at a given hardness.
You can rank for edge retention...at a given hardness.
You can rank for corrosion resistance...if you actually have test data rather than mere composition numbers.

You can't really rank for "best."
 
stabman said:
You can rank for toughness...at a given hardness.
You can rank for edge retention...at a given hardness.
You can rank for corrosion resistance...if you actually have test data rather than mere composition numbers.

You can't really rank for "best."
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You can rank for edge retention, and is not through hardness. Every knife manufacturer has charts on what is in what steel and another chart on what them elements added will do for the steel. There is but one element they add to blade steel for the purpose of edge retention and that is carbon.

Given that 440C has a good dose of it, it's not hard to figure out the edge will last pretty long. Now add the other element for toughness and abrasion, which 440C also has and it's pretty easy to see where the OP is coming from.

That quote of you is you just making stuff up. The OP is not making up what he is saying. Big difference.

An example, but every manufacturer has the same exact chart. Kinda makes things easy to understand for people like you.

174430.jpg
 
Boris, the charts are based on a given heat treatment and RC or they are meaningless. 440C at 50 is not nearly the same performer as 440C at 58.

Stick around and learn before taking on the world,

Or don't.

Can 440C get a hamon?
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Ham on rye?
 
Boris74 said:
You can rank for edge retention, and is not through hardness. Every knife manufacturer has charts on what is in what steel and another chart on what them elements added will do for the steel. There is but one element they add to blade steel for the purpose of edge retention and that is carbon.

Given that 440C has a good dose of it, it's not hard to figure out the edge will last pretty long. Now add the other element for toughness and abrasion, which 440C also has and it's pretty easy to see where the OP is coming from.

That quote of you is you just making stuff up. The OP is not making up what he is saying. Big difference.

An example, but every manufacturer has the same exact chart. Kinda makes things easy to understand for people like you.

174430.jpg
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The chart compares different steels at different hardnesses, not really an effective comparison.
 
Sunyata said:
The chart compares different steels at different hardnesses, not really an effective comparison.
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This chart. Two different steels, at the same hardness, with the same geometry, the one with the most carbon will retain its edge longer. I'm not saying it. Every single company that makes knives says it.

222343.jpg
 
"When wrestling with a greased hog, sooner or later one realizes the hog is enjoying it."
 
Boris74 said:
This chart. Two different steels, at the same hardness, with the same geometry, the one with the most carbon will retain its edge longer. I'm not saying it. Every single company that makes knives says it.
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If this is true then how do you explain steels like Vanax35, Vanax75, or even H1? They only have about .15-.20% C yet hold an edge as well as high carbon steels.
 
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