440C steel--- i think its about time

I think 440C is good stuff. So what if it doesn't take an edge that lasts forever. I didn't say it was perfect but in my book it's just fine.

Too often I see super steels discussed without any objective observations concerning advantages vs compromises (trade offs.) Like a commercial promotion.

I saw one blade smith on youtube who was objective when talking about 3V, a steel that I like what I hear about. He said he likely won't be dealing with it further down the road past his experiment because of the stringent heat treat protocols required to make it right as well as the wear and tear it places on his equipment and tools. He did like the way if performed.

When it comes to mass production I can only imagine how much cheating can happen to cut some of these corners among manufacturers who want to cash in on the super steel market putting in as little expense, time, and quality control as possible. I personally think that is why a lot of these super steel products have been known to chip out and/or perform and/or hold an edge no better than a generic standard steel.

Even when done right super steels are not perfect. They certainly are not the new standard that solves all knife related issues. Super steels are not all the same either.

Pick what you need according to what you are going to do with your blade and if a cheaper steel just happens to be all you need then go and save yourself a ton of money and get a standard steel that will work just fine.

If you are a knife nut like me than get standard steel knives as well as roll the dice super steels.

I would hope that manufacturers who have equipment suitable for working super steels would no longer have any problem whatsoever dealing with premium quality standard steels and give us all a bang for the buck when buying a knife with regular steel unless they are super stingy cheapskates. Uh oh I hope I am not giving out bad ideas to super cheapskates.
 
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chalby said:
How many knives have you used in 440C? It's possible you have a knife that was not heat treated properly, or the factory edge may have been damaged from excessive heat.

A good example of 440C should be noticeably better for edge retention than 12C27 at least, and probably equal or better than 14C28N as well.
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I used the mayflower and hivernant fron condor in a produce department job I use to have, they dulled fast but then again I didn't have the correct stone at the time, I only had a norton dual coarse/fine
 
Swp321 said:
No the op’s name is Shaihulud. They are an old school 90’s 00’s metalcore band. That’s just one of the lines to one of their popular songs. And also yes I’m aware the name is attached to the dune movie
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Correct, in part. The name came from the great sand worm the Fremen get their chrys knives from. Knowledge of that band eludes me completely
 
Chalby--- while I hear what you say about 440c compared to 12C27 and 14C28N
My experiences with 12C27 come from helle and they stay sharp through the paces I put them. but as always it's a matter of heat treatment
I am only saying in regards to 440c is that,
there are definitely upgrades out there that won't break the bank. Only speaking for myself I have lousy luck with 440c. If I'm the only one. Cool.
 
justjed said:
Ancient Fremen curse, for those not familiar. From Frank Herbert's Dune, for those same people.

It's an honor to die fighting.
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Slowly working through the novels. He created an entire world. Religion, political, infrastructural, and encomimic system--- not to hijack my own thread
 
I'm more than willing to give 440c another chance. I've just gotten the ugly end of the stick handed to me, multiple times. I carry benchmades socp mini dagger at work every day, I drive for a security company in the patrol division and I work 4-tens at night so its for extra piece of mind, used it on next to nothing (as it was designed as a primary weapon retention system)--- thing is almost duller than a butter knife. It'll still do what it needs to do I am supposing
 
ShaiHulud said:
Chalby--- while I hear what you say about 440c compared to 12C27 and 14C28N
My experiences with 12C27 come from helle and they stay sharp through the paces I put them. but as always it's a matter of heat treatment
I am only saying in regards to 440c is that,
there are definitely upgrades out there that won't break the bank. Only speaking for myself I have lousy luck with 440c. If I'm the only one. Cool.
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It could be to do with geometry as well. A sturdier/thicker blade with a 40-50deg edge bevel will not retain sharpness as well as a 20-30deg edge bevel on a thinner blade stock. That's assuming the steeper edge on the thinner knife will work well with a particular steel without suffering damage due to lack of strength/toughness.
 
On the likeness of the topic, is boker tree brand's Vollintegral a good 440C knife despite the astronomical price tag?
They have one in stag an XL 2.0 for 530.00 ..
In 440C of course
 
A core problem with the steel obsession is the "Gizmo-ification" of knives. We are so conditioned by modern tech (smartphones, video game systems, computers, smart watches etc) into thinking that "new' means better, faster, and that it can do more things and different things.

With knives this is not necessarily true. Sure a knife with 3v properly heat treated will be able to cut LONGER than something in 440c but it won't be able to cut anything different. Its not as though before you got your 3v folder you were unable to cut through certain cardboard in the same way as before you got your updated smartphone you were simply unable to take quality pictures in lowlight or use GPS at the same time as the phone app.

Better steels that cut longer are cool and certainly a quality of life thing for many people but alloy is alloy and if properly maintained it will serve you just fine the same as it has served people for decades before this. I still use a 440C blade to cut up the vast majority of cardboard by my back door along with an AUS8 RAT 1. They are easy to hone back to sharp, I dont care if they get tape and glue all over them, and they have good geometry. They serve a very well needed purpose and do so well.
 
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c7m2p3 said:
A core problem with the steel obsession is the "Gizmo-ification" of knives. We are so conditioned my modern tech (smartphones, video game systems, computers, smart watches etc) into thinking that "new' means better, faster, and that it can do more things and different things.

With knives this is not necessarily true. Sure a knife with 3v properly heat treated will be able to cut LONGER than something in 440c but it won't be able to cut anything different. Its not as though before you got your 3v folder you were unable to cut through certain cardboard in the same way as before you got your updated smartphone you were simply unable to take quality pictures in lowlight or use GPS at the same time as the phone app.

Better steels that cut longer are cool and certainly a quality of life thing for many people but alloy is alloy and if properly maintained it will serve you just fine the same as it has served people for decades before this. I still use a 440C blade to cut up the vast majority of cardboard by my back door along with an AUS8 RAT 1. They are easy to hone back to sharp, I dont care if they get tape and glue all over them, and they have good geometry. They serve a very well needed purpose and do so well.
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Creative imput, I tend to group super steels and super foods in the same marketing gimmick category. They are nice to have, and may offer some enhanced performance qualities but they don't necessarily provide and night and day comparison, at least in my opinion
 
ShaiHulud said:
Creative imput, I tend to group super steels and super foods in the same marketing gimmick category. They are nice to have, and may offer some enhanced performance qualities but they don't necessarily provide and night and day comparison, at least in my opinion
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Agreed and I like the super food comparison as well.

I like super steels too and have a 20cv TRM atom in my pocket right now. They are great but these steels aren't my favorite to sharpen and they are not cheap enough kick around with abandon. I use all my knives, but the day after christmas when i need to break down 50 yards of plastic and cardboard you better believe im taking that AUS8 rat 1 off the window sill rather than the TRM out of my pocket
 
c7m2p3 said:
A core problem with the steel obsession is the "Gizmo-ification" of knives. We are so conditioned by modern tech (smartphones, video game systems, computers, smart watches etc) into thinking that "new' means better, faster, and that it can do more things and different things.

With knives this is not necessarily true. Sure a knife with 3v properly heat treated will be able to cut LONGER than something in 440c but it won't be able to cut anything different. Its not as though before you got your 3v folder you were unable to cut through certain cardboard in the same way as before you got your updated smartphone you were simply unable to take quality pictures in lowlight or use GPS at the same time as the phone app.

Better steels that cut longer are cool and certainly a quality of life thing for many people but alloy is alloy and if properly maintained it will serve you just fine the same as it has served people for decades before this. I still use a 440C blade to cut up the vast majority of cardboard by my back door along with an AUS8 RAT 1. They are easy to hone back to sharp, I dont care if they get tape and glue all over them, and they have good geometry. They serve a very well needed purpose and do so well.
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Very well said.
 
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