440C steel--- i think its about time

[shane45-1911]

I think you ignore geometry.

Yup, I already addressed that with Joe in post # 85, previously.

"You are talking apples and oranges. I do not want my hard use outdoor knife to be scalpel or razor blade thin."

 

[JoeBusic]

To address the issues in religion
Plate mart starts to form and mix with lath mart at 0.6% C and gets to full plate mart at 1%C. When one speaks of microcracks it's because of plate mart. There is a way to avoid it completely and without going for bainite. Just quench to target hardness and temper a little. That way C will not over saturate the matrix and plate mart will not form. SS can't get to plate mart anyway because of the composition so it makes it more reliable when doing it by the book.
Addressing the geometry. As said previously here many SS can be better than HC in toughness AND edge retention at the same geometry. It's just a lot of risk without a kiln and those are more affordable than ever.
Last but not least, I can make 440C tougher and stronger than 1095 but not sharper because of large grains.
440C is here to stay. SS is king. HC power is religion.

 

[murat1983]

Its probably not 420hc, it's 420j2 or a Chinese equivalent like 3cr13...probably labeled as 420....

most dive knives I've seen in a 420 type steel ain't 420hc or heat treated well.

Manufacturer stated them to be 420HC. But perhaps they are not.

 

[murat1983]

I am also curious on the brand of dive knife you are referring to. Sounds like it may be not the real deal. 420hc has a ton of corrosion resistance, albeit not corrosion proof. 420j2 is also very resilient in regards to rusting.

I beg to differ regarding the corrosion resistance of 420HC. I carry a leatherman raptor shears on my weight belt and it is 420HC. I rinse my equipment with fresh water after every single dive without a delay (i.e. within an hour or two) and after the first dive there was a rust on the leatherman raptor while there was none on my Mora companion. I really find it difficult to deal with the rust on the shears. I clean it with metal wool and apply camelia oil but the rust is still progressing. I come to a point that I do not care anymore. 420HC probably have some rust resistance as it is a stainless steel but the resistance level is certainly below 12C27 (i.e. mora stainless).

 

[murat1983]

Who made your 420HC knives, if I may ask? I'm just curious.

I have several. Mostly from major diving equipment companies, like OMER, Sporasub, Seatec and that major italian company who produce most of the diving knives for most of the companies. I think it is called MAK Colliterri or something like that.

 

[Alone]

...And there is definitely a reason why most (all?) competition choppers are not stainless, and it has nothing to do with religion.

Amen.

 

[TheEdge01]

99% of the problem with so-called budget steels is in our minds.

 

[not2sharp]

99% of the problem with so-called budget steels is in our minds.

I suspect most of it comes down to the fear of sharpening knives. The lack of use and underdeveloped skills has many on a quest for a material that will never need sharpening. So marketing has brought us 50 generations of steel, each promising better edge retention than its predecessor.

n2s

 

[J. Doyle]

1075 is in the plate martensite danger. It can't be tough.

This is not correct at all.

 

[VorpelSword]

What Makor, premium brand knife maker still uses 440C for high-end knives?

Are there not other steels with better overall end user performance available today?

 

[JoeBusic]

What Makor, premium brand knife maker still uses 440C for high-end knives?

None. 440C is mid range. Used from affordable (not cheap) to mid range. Some use it in high end as artistic value.
As said before. 440C is as N690 so look at knives with N690 and you'll understand where it belongs.

 

[Angus McGunnigle]

440c works great IMO. Easy to maintain and no fretting needed. i should add that I have a 2WD ’91 Toyota pickup with no AC, no power steering, manual locks and windows and the stock AM/FM radio. It works well. I don’t have to fret about it as long as I do the proper preventative maintenance.
……some things just work well. Not fancy, not the newest thing, but they work well.

 

[jmh33]

99% of the problem with so-called budget steels is in our minds.

John

 

[Bob Denman]

Who ever said that this had to be an "either/or" situation?

 

[scdub]

If something has to go it's the HC steels, knife related.

How DARE you!!?!?



Srsly tho - I could happily go the rest of my life without using another stainless knife. On the other hand, I would rather give up coffee than go without my carbon steel blades.

 

[BlindMouse2of3]

How DARE you!!?!?



Srsly tho - I could happily go the rest of my life without using another stainless knife. On the other hand, I would rather give up coffee than go without my carbon steel blades.

 

[JoeBusic]

How DARE you!!?!?



Srsly tho - I could happily go the rest of my life without using another stainless knife. On the other hand, I would rather give up coffee than go without my carbon steel blades.

HC is so 20' century. Time to burry it. Cheap material and fast to use up. 1060 and O2 knives in my hands are reground under 2 years. D3 and D6 after 3y are still in sharpening zone. Still, more is better. Humidity kills sharpness. Last 6 months I'm all into M390 and S90V. SS and high alloy tool steels are mainstream and waiting for the next big thing in knife steel. For outdoors SS is the only solution. Only reason for Magnacut not to be used for high end choppers is religion. As said before, if Sandvik made thicker steel, they would be everywhere., axes too.

 

[Hashishiin]

My steaks taste the same no matter what blade steel I cut them with. In fact, a lowly Opinel, with simple, soft steels, does the job better than most of my high-tech knives with high-tech steels.

Some say the carbon steel affects the taste of food, so maybe blade steel does in fact make your steak taste different! Ha, I never noticed it though. I was just playing devil's advocate there

Opinel is a particularly good choice for that, as its thin geometry makes eating food a breeze. I wouldn't wanna wail on wood making a walking stick with my Opinel, and probably my M4 Shaman is not going to slice a steak as well. It isn't all in steel choice

 

[J. Doyle]

.....1060 and O2 knives in my hands are reground under 2 years. D3 and D6 after 3y are still in sharpening zone......

If you are saying that after 2 years, carbon steels need to be completely reground, I'm calling B.S.

If so, someone needs to re-evaluate their heat treating.

Believe it or not, and like it or not, carbon steels still have some advantages. Otherwise they would be obsolete and discontinued.

 

[Hashishiin]

HC is so 20' century. Time to burry it. Cheap material and fast to use up. 1060 and O2 knives in my hands are reground under 2 years. D3 and D6 after 3y are still in sharpening zone. Still, more is better. Humidity kills sharpness. Last 6 months I'm all into M390 and S90V. SS and high alloy tool steels are mainstream and waiting for the next big thing in knife steel. For outdoors SS is the only solution. Only reason for Magnacut not to be used for high end choppers is religion. As said before, if Sandvik made thicker steel, they would be everywhere., axes too.

Could someone explain what everyone means by "religion"? Do you mean, like, the "way things are done"? As in, it would go against "religion" to make a 1095 Ti Framelock or a 20CV chopper?